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B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Jul 7 15:35:26 2016 I've abstained from glancing at the very long threads that seem to be currently in style. Forgive me, if somebody else has posted this information and hid the news inside a long thread with a non-specific subject.Here's the link http://www.nyc.gov/html/brt/downloads/pdf/brt-nostrand-progress-report-june2016.pdf |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Thu Jul 7 16:00:40 2016, in response to B44 Progress Report Released, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Jul 7 15:35:26 2016. Why would anyone post this inside an existing long thread and not change the subject line to reflect it? |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by B1bus on Thu Jul 7 16:44:37 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by TerrApin Station on Thu Jul 7 16:00:40 2016. please go away with your nonsence comments. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Thu Jul 7 19:04:44 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by B1bus on Thu Jul 7 16:44:37 2016. Make me. My comments are not nonsense. You know exactly what I wrote. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Thu Jul 7 19:41:43 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by TerrApin Station on Thu Jul 7 16:00:40 2016. some people are fools |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Thu Jul 7 19:54:42 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by Union Tpke on Thu Jul 7 19:41:43 2016. Yes but not like that. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jul 7 20:06:52 2016, in response to B44 Progress Report Released, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Jul 7 15:35:26 2016. Here are my comments |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Thu Jul 7 20:19:10 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jul 7 20:06:52 2016. What makes you think he or anyone else (besides nostalgia and his ilk) care what you have to say??? Who here ever agrees with you??? |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Jul 7 20:36:03 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by TerrApin Station on Thu Jul 7 20:19:10 2016. What is that,flame bait?A similar train of thought is circulating concerning You and YOUR ILK with a fevored pitch! What You are continually forgetting is,YOU have the UNDISPUTED REPUTATION of being an ASSHOLE EXTRAORDINAIRE. YOU can rag on BUS from sun up to sun down,but the fact remains that YOUR ACTIONS,NOT HIS,forever remain mared in infancy...and bullshit. So,go on and harp about your self delusional importance,how infallible you claim to be..what Evah helps You get off...you are Soned Out..and You know it. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Thu Jul 7 21:11:35 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by Edwards! on Thu Jul 7 20:36:03 2016. Haha, made you pissed. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by nostalgia on Thu Jul 7 21:17:42 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by Edwards! on Thu Jul 7 20:36:03 2016. OWNED |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by JerBear on Fri Jul 8 08:34:21 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by TerrApin Station on Thu Jul 7 20:19:10 2016. I care what he has to say, even though I only occasionally agree with him. Not having been to transit planning school, there's a lot of stuff I don't instinctively know when looking at transit and reading reports. BrooklynBus at least brings up issues that I can mull over, research, and come to my own opinion about, which I might not have done if he hadn't first put the discussion out there like this. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by nostalgia on Fri Jul 8 09:31:13 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by JerBear on Fri Jul 8 08:34:21 2016. OWNEDExactly. You at least give Bus credit for posting information and you make an independent decision on whether to agree. Goebbels and his gang slant the discussion by changing what Bus wrote or deliberately misinterpret what Bus wrote and then slam him for what he didn't write. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Jul 8 09:35:31 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by nostalgia on Fri Jul 8 09:31:13 2016. BrooklynBus does not actually post information. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by nostalgia on Fri Jul 8 09:41:50 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by R30A on Fri Jul 8 09:35:31 2016. What does he post? |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Jul 8 09:50:17 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by nostalgia on Fri Jul 8 09:41:50 2016. Misreadings of statistics. Misreadings of plans. Conspiracies which only exist in his mind. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by nostalgia on Fri Jul 8 09:55:29 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by R30A on Fri Jul 8 09:50:17 2016. If that's true, how come he isn't called out for Misreadings of statistics. Misreadings of plans. Conspiracies which only exist in his mind when he posts the SAME information on NYCTF? |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by GojiMet86 on Fri Jul 8 10:04:48 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by R30A on Fri Jul 8 09:50:17 2016. Except they are not conspiracies. In all the name calling and feuds, and in all the spats about pedestrians and cars, his bigger point about the MTA has been ignored.The MTA has figured out a very good way of lowering costs. You just cram people into fewer buses that have long distances in between stops and called it progress. The testimony I've read so far about the new B46-SBS has been horrific. For every 1 local bus there have been 4 to 6 SBS buses heading the same direction. You tell me, what are the local riders supposed to do? Walk to the nearest SBS stop? The rides on the SBS buses themselves may be shorter, but that time saved is lost by having to walk to the SBS stops. And it doesn't even go the full B46 route. Never mind that by doing so, getting to work has been made harder or made inconvenient. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Jul 8 10:44:09 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by nostalgia on Fri Jul 8 09:55:29 2016. He certainly has been at times. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by gOld_12th on Fri Jul 8 11:21:09 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by TerrApin Station on Thu Jul 7 19:04:44 2016. Whineburger |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by nostalgia on Fri Jul 8 11:42:45 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by gOld_12th on Fri Jul 8 11:21:09 2016. OWNED |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by nostalgia on Fri Jul 8 11:55:28 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by GojiMet86 on Fri Jul 8 10:04:48 2016. Great Post!! |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Jul 8 13:04:43 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by GojiMet86 on Fri Jul 8 10:04:48 2016. While I have not been out to observe the B46, you do mention the logistical problem with having SBS replace Limiteds. Limiteds can have local segments (as they often do near the ends of routes so as to provide maximum benefit to those who will travel further). SBS can't - at least not MTA's SBS. And I wonder if the main reason for that is that MTA does not have the resources right now to provide a financially efficient POP route. You shouldn't have to install weatherproof machines on a sidewalk anytime you want to add a stop. If there was a way around this (mobile POP and/or on-board validation) you could have the SBS operate much more flexibly.The B46 SBS not making it into Williamsburg is a glaring example of MTA not knowing how to do POP. Even CTfastrak with its dedicated busways knows that sometimes buses have to come off the busway to ordinary stops (no machines) in order to be practical. And MUNI has systemwide POP and not a single sidewalk machine in sight. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jul 8 13:07:39 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by JerBear on Fri Jul 8 08:34:21 2016. Thank you. I appreciate that even if you don't agree with me most of the time. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jul 8 13:08:03 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by nostalgia on Fri Jul 8 09:31:13 2016. True. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jul 8 13:09:32 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by R30A on Fri Jul 8 09:50:17 2016. Again. Just a bunch of baseless accusations which is the only thing you can do.At least take one of the hundreds of point I made in my nine page review and let's debate that one point. You can't do it. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jul 8 13:11:01 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by R30A on Fri Jul 8 10:44:09 2016. Not true. Not everyone always agrees all the time. That is to be expected. But the hostility that exists here does not exist there. If someone wants to make a point there, they at least explain themselves. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jul 8 13:14:04 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by GojiMet86 on Fri Jul 8 10:04:48 2016. Exactly. By FORCING everyone to use the SBS even when people are better served by the local, the MTA can claim more are riding the SBS than the Limited so they can claim success, just like they did with the B44 by only looking at the SBS ridership increase the second year and ignoring the local. They didn't even release satisfaction results from local riders because the reviews were too unfavorable to print. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Jul 8 13:22:30 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jul 8 13:09:32 2016. I'll disprove most of them. I do not have the time at the moment, but expect to by Tuesday. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jul 8 14:08:57 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by R30A on Fri Jul 8 13:22:30 2016. I will wait. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by nostalgia on Fri Jul 8 14:12:49 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jul 8 13:11:01 2016. OWNED!! |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by nostalgia on Fri Jul 8 14:12:51 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jul 8 13:11:01 2016. OWNED!! |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Jul 8 19:22:34 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by GojiMet86 on Fri Jul 8 10:04:48 2016. The MTA has figured out a very good way of lowering costs. You just cram people into fewer buses that have long distances in between stops and called it progress.The experiment has been a failure, if that were the goal. The October 2013 schedule shows 283 locals and 292 ltd trips per weekday. The December 2015 schedule shows 286 locals and 329 SBS bus trips per weekday. The passenger counts remained roughly the same over this period. This means that the load levels for the SBS buses had to decrease. The reduced load level is one contributing factor for the reduced loading times. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jul 8 20:57:27 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Jul 8 19:22:34 2016. You are not exactly correct. Ridership is down by two percent between November 2013 and December 2015. I suspect paid ridership went down the first year because there was very little fare enforcement. It rose by 10 percent the second year because they stepped up enforcement, but they won't keep it as they roll out more routes. So they will move the enforcement team. So you can expect that ten percent increase to evaporate this year.So according to you they added service for fewer passengers. Hardly makes any sense. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Jul 8 22:52:48 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jul 8 20:57:27 2016. they added service for fewer passengers. Hardly makes any sense.Average boarding and exiting times increase by half a second per passenger, when there are standees on the bus. If you are trying to show that dwell times decreased, it's best to use buses with low load levels. The service levels varied throughout the period. Here's a csv suitable for pasting into a spreadsheet for various weekdays from the conversion to SBS. Date,Route,trips,stops per trip,miles per trip 2013-10-31,LOC,283,54.72,7.44 2013-10-31,LTD,292,33.97,9.13 2013-12-12,LOC,267,58.56,8.02 2013-12-12,SBS,328,14.32,8.20 2014-01-10,LOC,270,58.21,7.97 2014-01-10,SBS,328,14.32,8.20 2014-04-22,LOC,266,59.39,8.11 2014-04-22,SBS,276,14.42,8.27 2014-07-25,LOC,266,59.39,8.11 2014-07-25,SBS,276,16.39,8.27 2014-10-10,LOC,294,56.81,7.78 2014-10-10,SBS,328,16.29,8.21 2014-12-12,LOC,294,56.81,7.78 2014-12-12,SBS,328,16.29,8.21 2015-01-10,LOC,294,56.81,7.78 2015-01-10,SBS,328,16.29,8.21 2015-04-22,LOC,289,56.99,7.81 2015-04-22,SBS,328,16.29,8.21 2015-07-25,LOC,270,59.36,8.11 2015-07-25,SBS,276,16.39,8.27 2015-10-14,LOC,286,57.23,7.83 2015-10-14,SBS,329,16.26,8.20 2015-12-12,LOC,286,57.23,7.83 2015-12-12,SBS,329,16.26,8.20 2016-01-10,LOC,286,57.23,7.83 2016-01-10,SBS,329,16.26,8.20 2016-04-22,LOC,283,57.57,7.88 2016-04-22,SBS,306,16.27,8.20 2016-07-25,LOC,270,59.36,8.11 2016-07-25,SBS,258,16.48,8.31 You can see they increased SBS service levels starting in Oct. 2014. They did not reduce the level until April 2016. I wonder when they took the average dwell time measurements for the report :=) The decrease in service levels during the summer months is pretty standard. School is out. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sat Jul 9 00:33:28 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Jul 8 13:04:43 2016. The extension to WBP was related more to traffic than the POP system. If anything, having it continue to run limited south of Avenue H is an example of not being able to implement POP efficiently (the people on the southern end of the route used to be able to hop on a limited at the nearest stop and go right to the subway. Now it's just a choice between the slower, less reliable local, or walking further to an +SBS+ stop)I mean, it wouldn't have been that hard to add a stop at Fillmore, since apparently they're doing driver changes there anyway. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Jul 9 09:29:27 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Jul 8 22:52:48 2016. You really have to measure dwell times separately for the SBS and the local. My gut feeling is that dwell times for the local skyrocketed while dwell times for the SBS showed some decrease but not enough to offset the increase in local dwell times.Part of this would be due to the fact that standard sized buses are used on the local while article with three doors are used on the SBS although the numbers of passengers carried by each are similar making the locals much more crowded. I also believe this increase in dwell times on the local is what caused those routine 40 minute waits until additional locals were added. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jul 10 02:04:27 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by JerBear on Fri Jul 8 08:34:21 2016. That's not what I was talking about. You admitted that you rarely agree with him. THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT! All he is doing for you is bringing up topics that you can further research. That's nice but there are other sources for such topics. The meat of his posts are his assertions and "facts" and opinions, and as I stated, no one really cares about what he says about them because he's usually wrong. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jul 10 07:59:11 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Jul 8 22:52:48 2016. You really have to measure dwell times separately for the SBS and the local. My gut feeling is that dwell times for the local skyrocketed while dwell times for the SBS showed some decrease but not enough to offset the increase in local dwell times.Part of this would be due to the fact that standard sized buses are used on the local while article with three doors are used on the SBS although the numbers of passengers carried by each are similar making the locals much more crowded. I also believe this increase in dwell times on the local is what caused those routine 40 minute waits until additional locals were added. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jul 10 10:30:13 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jul 10 02:04:27 2016. Untrue. No one else has made the points about the B44 Progress Report being deficient by omitting many topics that needed to be discussed such as fare evasion.Many would not think of all these omissions if I had not mentioned it. My report was designed to get people to think and question the claims made by DOT and the MTA. That alone is a great service. And you are 109 percent wrong by claiming no one really cares and that I am "usually wrong". You have not named one claim I made that is wrong. That is because you never even bothered to read the report. Yet that doesn't stop you from spouting your meaningless comments. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Jul 10 11:20:23 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sat Jul 9 00:33:28 2016. But if the B46 segment from DeKalb to WBP is considered unsuitable due to traffic, then are they not simply "stealing" dependability for the SBS by making the local more undependable?As they break the common rule of having expresses go further than locals by having SBS short-turn at DeKalb, they put a heavy burden on the less frequent and long-length local. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by nostalgia on Sun Jul 10 13:15:09 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jul 10 02:04:27 2016. Caught you in the act Goebbels. JerBear came to an independent conclusion about Bus. BUT because you don't like anybody giving Bus credit, you're now slamming JerBear. All you focused on is that he rarely agrees with Bus which ISN'T his major point.You're trying to get JerBear to hate Bus as much as you do. You can't deal with independent thinkers. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by nostalgia on Sun Jul 10 14:30:54 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jul 10 10:30:13 2016. OWNED |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Jul 10 15:26:03 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jul 10 02:04:27 2016. Liar.. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jul 10 16:48:43 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Jul 10 11:20:23 2016. Yes but they don't care about the local. All they want is their statistics to show travel time improvement for the SBS. They don't care about additional transfers, time or fares for the passengers.You know that is true by Trottenberg's comment to Martinez that SBS ridership rose by 10 percent. She failed to mention that was only for the second year of operation. She also didn't mention that the local went down 4 percent the second year or that total B44 ridership is now 2 percent lower than prior to SBS. She is intentionally trying to mislead to give false impressions of success. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jul 10 16:54:46 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Jul 10 11:20:23 2016. Yes but they don't care about the local. All they want is their statistics to show travel time improvement for the SBS. They don't care about additional transfers, time or fares for the passengers.You know that is true by Trottenberg's comment to Martinez that SBS ridership rose by 10 percent. She failed to mention that was only for the second year of operation. She also didn't mention that the local went down 4 percent the second year or that total B44 ridership is now 2 percent lower than prior to SBS. She is intentionally trying to mislead to give false impressions of success. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jul 10 19:18:18 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Jul 10 11:20:23 2016. Yes but they don't care about the local. All they want is their statistics to show travel time improvement for the SBS. They don't care about additional transfers, time or fares for the passengers.You know that is true by Trottenberg's comment to Martinez that SBS ridership rose by 10 percent. She failed to mention that was only for the second year of operation. She also didn't mention that the local went down 4 percent the second year or that total B44 ridership is now 2 percent lower than prior to SBS. She is intentionally trying to mislead to give false impressions of success. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jul 10 22:34:13 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jul 10 10:30:13 2016. Untrue.Nope. True. No one else has made the points about the B44 Progress Report being deficient by omitting many topics that needed to be discussed such as fare evasion. Many would not think of all these omissions if I had not mentioned it. My report was designed to get people to think and question the claims made by DOT and the MTA. That alone is a great service.I doubt it. And you are 109 percent wrong by claiming no one really cares and that I am "usually wrong".No I'm not. I'm right. N one really cares what you have to say and you are usually wrong. You have not named one claim I made that is wrong. That is because you never even bothered to read the report. Yet that doesn't stop you from spouting your meaningless comments.Where did I say you claims in the B44 report were wrong? I haven't even read it! I'm talking about the claims you've been making for the last 5 years! They are usually wrong! |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jul 10 22:34:39 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by Edwards! on Sun Jul 10 15:26:03 2016. Nope. I'm a truth teller. |
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Re: B44 Progress Report Released |
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Posted by nostalgia on Sun Jul 10 23:50:05 2016, in response to Re: B44 Progress Report Released, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jul 10 22:34:13 2016. It's already been proven that some care about Bus' postings. It's not NONEThere you go again Goebbels, slanting the situation to prove your point. You slant so much maybe your name should be R40. |
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