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| Re: South Ferry Inner Loop Station. (1385244) | |
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| (1385797) | |
Re: South Ferry Inner Loop Station. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Feb 16 23:56:04 2016, in response to Re: South Ferry Inner Loop Station., posted by Jace on Tue Feb 16 21:56:49 2016. An express will run much longer distances between stations giving the passengers on board time to circulate into less crowded cars especially on the Bronx and Brooklyn ends.The only IRT platforms that were 10 cars long were those built under the Dual Contracts. Most of the original 1904 platforms were shorter. In particular, Jackson Ave, Prospect Ave, Intervale Ave, Simpson St, 174th St and 177th St Stations were not lengthened until 13 June 1949. The distance between Bronx local stations is as short or shorter than those on the 14th St Line. They still operated 30 tph on the White Plains Rd Line back in 1949. As for the R110Bs, they would have been a poor option since you'd lose four door openings versus a 9 car train of slightly less than 60's. What's important in reducing dwell time is total doorway aisle width. The 67 foot BMT Standards had only 3 2-leaf doors per side. The Standard's end doorway aisle width was 66"; the center doorway was aisle 80". That's a total of 212" of doorway ailes per side. The R142 doorway width is 50" for a total of 200" per side. The second factor that's important for reducing dwell time is the placement of poles to maintain paths to/from doorway aisles with standees. Pole placement and the wide aisles ensured that passengers could get from seats to the door quickly with full service loads. |
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| (1385809) | |
Re: South Ferry Inner Loop Station. |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Feb 17 01:34:10 2016, in response to Re: South Ferry Inner Loop Station., posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Feb 16 23:56:04 2016. Even many of the dual contract platforms were not a full 10 cars long. The local stations on Lex N/O G/Cent and 7 Av S/O T/Sq could only hold 8 cars. |
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| (1385815) | |
Re: South Ferry Inner Loop Station. |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 17 07:39:34 2016, in response to Re: South Ferry Inner Loop Station., posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Feb 16 23:56:04 2016. The Standards also had that damned center post in every pair of doors, which did not help matters. |
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| (1385817) | |
Re: South Ferry Inner Loop Station. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Feb 17 08:14:22 2016, in response to Re: South Ferry Inner Loop Station., posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 17 07:39:34 2016. The Standards also had that damned center post in every pair of doors, which did not help matters.It's counter-intuitive but they helped reduce dwell time. The posts made people choose the right door. This allowed simultaneous loading/unloading at stops. The wide interior door aisles combined with the pole placement permitted passenger to flow freely in both directions simultaneously. What you currently have is let all passengers off then a few seconds hesitation to see that all exiting passengers have exited followed by the passengers entering. That takes longer. |
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| (1385819) | |
Re: South Ferry Inner Loop Station. |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 17 08:42:54 2016, in response to Re: South Ferry Inner Loop Station., posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Feb 17 08:14:22 2016. Would there also be hesitation when passengers on and off the Standard reach a consensus, I assume by body language, which door leaf they will exit and which they will enter, or even if such a polite procedure would exist ? |
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| (1385831) | |
Re: South Ferry Inner Loop Station. |
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Posted by Jace on Wed Feb 17 09:59:54 2016, in response to Re: South Ferry Inner Loop Station., posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Feb 16 23:56:04 2016. Apples to oranges. The IRT expresses in the Bronx were more akin to a suburban service than the L: how many people would get on at one Bronx local station and then off at another 2-3 stations down and how many would ride into Manhattan? And what were the loading guidelines that led to the 30 train per hour rate? Was it to ensure every Bronx rider had a seat or was it to get a stuffed car? NJT and LIRR operate trains longer than some of the stations allow but their scheduling criteria is to offer every rider a seat while minimizing standees. That means there's room in the aisles for people to walk car to car to get space and then time (and room) to get to an exit.I'm not sure what the ABs have to do with R110Bs but if you want to bring them up that's ok, I like the cars. But in this context they're not a suitable design as they were a suburban car at heart. Take a look at the narrow aisles between the transverse seat and the seating arrangement itself: very little room for moving end to end or for standees, lots of room to sit and get comfortable for the long ride in from Brighton Beach. That said, the number of door openings and to a lesser extent door width are critical for dwells (poles do matter as do the niches by the doors). R160s run exclusively on the E rather than R46s simply because there are more doors per train. The transverse seating on the R46s doesn't help as you lose floor space too. Starting with a blank sheet wider door openings can easily be added to a shorter car if maximizing capacity is the overriding design criteria. Ultimately, for maximum capacity, you'd get to one of the 6 door opening, no seat Yamanote Line cattle cars. I wonder how the L line passengers would like those? |
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| (1385843) | |
Re: South Ferry Inner Loop Station. |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 17 11:11:04 2016, in response to Re: South Ferry Inner Loop Station., posted by Jace on Wed Feb 17 09:59:54 2016. I am not a fan of longitudinal alley seats to yield more floor space because it is not productive floor space. It only appears that way when the car is empty. People stick their feet out into the aisle, which takes up standee space. I |
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| (1385888) | |
Re: South Ferry Inner Loop Station. |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Feb 17 19:01:55 2016, in response to Re: South Ferry Inner Loop Station., posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 17 08:42:54 2016. Come to think of it, I often boarded or exited a train of BMT standards through the right hand door of whichever set of doors I was using. |
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