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| Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 (1308073) | |
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| (1308075) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Aug 16 16:48:21 2014, in response to Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 16 16:10:49 2014. I can see why the Reading had some issues ... for instance, the observation car should be on the BACK of the train, not the front. :) |
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| (1308076) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by chuchubob on Sat Aug 16 16:57:42 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Aug 16 16:48:21 2014. The observation car WAS on the rear. The Crusader had one on each end. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1308078) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by Dave on Sat Aug 16 17:26:40 2014, in response to Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 16 16:10:49 2014. Sharp! |
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| (1308080) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Aug 16 17:32:27 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by chuchubob on Sat Aug 16 16:57:42 2014. Neat trick! Had no idea ... :) |
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| (1308083) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 16 17:48:20 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Aug 16 17:32:27 2014. I think both OBS cars exist in Canada. |
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| (1308084) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by chud1 on Sat Aug 16 17:50:37 2014, in response to Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 16 16:10:49 2014. 5 drooling stars out of 5 drooling stars for da Reading Crusader picture.chud1. :).... |
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| (1308086) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 16 18:02:44 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by chuchubob on Sat Aug 16 16:57:42 2014. And when the Crusader was running with the streamlined Pacific, there was shrouding on the tender to wrap around the "front" obs car. The front car still popped out around curves though. |
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| (1308088) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by WillD on Sat Aug 16 18:21:50 2014, in response to Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 16 16:10:49 2014. So regulation is a good thing? After all, those "affordable" fares mandated by regulation came at a cost to the railroads' bottom line. But if you want regulation back, I guess that's your concern. |
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| (1308090) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by Alan Follett on Sat Aug 16 19:51:35 2014, in response to Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 16 16:10:49 2014. Very nice. By the time I got around to riding it, in the mid-1970's, it was down to two or three RDC cars.Alan Follett Hercules, CA |
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| (1308093) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 16 19:55:39 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by WillD on Sat Aug 16 18:21:50 2014. So regulation is a good thing?Sure. I'll take Amtrak over no track any day. |
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| (1308094) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 16 19:56:01 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by Alan Follett on Sat Aug 16 19:51:35 2014. I didn't even get to ride that. :( |
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| (1308099) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Aug 16 21:41:43 2014, in response to Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 16 16:10:49 2014. When I read the title, I thought, "Who is this Reading Crusader? I guess he promotes reading in schools or something." Nice-looking train, though. Yeah, it's late on a Saturday night-- good night, Gracie. |
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| (1308101) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by 600vdc on Sat Aug 16 22:32:54 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Aug 16 21:41:43 2014. ...or a superhero from Berks County. |
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| (1308104) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by The silence on Sat Aug 16 23:54:48 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by WillD on Sat Aug 16 18:21:50 2014. There is a differences between "affordable" and "we flat out can't survive like this" |
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| (1308105) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 17 00:29:29 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 16 17:48:20 2014. For anyone interested, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusader_%28train%29Two of the train's five cars are known to survive. One of the observation cars is in the collection of the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania at Strasburg, Pennsylvania. The other observation was in service as part of the Spirit of Washington Dinner Train in Washington state until 2007, and is now part of the passenger car fleet of Iowa Pacific Holdings. |
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| (1308108) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 17 05:39:01 2014, in response to Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 16 16:10:49 2014. But we have cheap rail transit to Philly (NJT+SEPTA). |
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| (1308113) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 17 06:59:34 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 17 05:39:01 2014. "Cheap" and "affordable" aren't necessarily synonymous in every respect.And back when the Crusader ran, there were other RDG trains running from JC to Philly. Just like the predecessor PRR service was running from NYP or Exchange Place to Philly. |
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| (1308116) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by WillD on Sun Aug 17 08:07:11 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by The silence on Sat Aug 16 23:54:48 2014. And if ever there was a case of the latter it was the Reading in the postwar years. Deferred maintenance leading to government takeover. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of the sort of affordability Olog is pining for in the OP. |
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| (1308118) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by murray1575 on Sun Aug 17 08:42:52 2014, in response to Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 16 16:10:49 2014. That lead FP7 903 still exists (I'm not sure if it is still in operable condition). |
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| (1308131) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 17 11:06:59 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 17 00:29:29 2014. Oh well, they must have come back, or just one of them went to Canada and came back. |
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| (1308133) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 17 11:10:01 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by WillD on Sun Aug 17 08:07:11 2014. I loved my one-time ride on the Wall Streeter or Crusaser in 1976, and it even had a FRIENDLY, sociaable (unlike Amtrak) sit down lunch-counter like snack bar. The fare was $5 and change. The trains were 2 cars and 3 cars.But the farebox recovery must have been like 10 - 20%. |
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| (1308148) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 17 12:46:34 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 17 05:39:01 2014. Into the 1970's one SEPTA Trenton Line local and an NJ-DOT Trenton - NYP local did in fact run through. A friend of mine has told me about and rode it often. In the 1960's it was to give the north Jersey commuters some exposure to Silverliners. But later on, it may have been to cycle the MP54's to Paoli.The NJT-SEPTA combo is quite a long schlep. Even with a change in NWK, which was irrelevant to a lot of those folds as they took PATH to Wall Street jobs, the Reading service was much faster. |
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| (1308180) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sun Aug 17 15:50:07 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 17 11:10:01 2014. That's when both were RDC's, correct? |
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| (1308181) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sun Aug 17 15:58:50 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 17 06:59:34 2014. But in the end, there were only 2 trains left, and only going to Newark in the morning and from Newark in the evening. The speed and frequency of the NEC trumped the Reading's slower route, which didn't enter NY Penn Station, and arguably made fewer major stops. |
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| (1308182) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 17 15:59:39 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by 3-9 on Sun Aug 17 15:50:07 2014. Right. |
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| (1308186) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Aug 17 16:26:23 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Aug 16 17:32:27 2014. +1111 |
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| (1308187) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Aug 17 16:26:57 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by chuchubob on Sat Aug 16 16:57:42 2014. Heh. |
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| (1308188) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 17 16:30:50 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by 3-9 on Sun Aug 17 15:58:50 2014. Thanks to government interference. Remember that all trains during that era were government-operated, and thereby having a conflict of interest what with the parallel routing of both trains, showing an ingrained prejudice towards one route. (Not so with roads, take note!) |
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| (1308189) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 17 16:34:34 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 17 11:06:59 2014. One of them at least sorta came home. :) |
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| (1308197) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by WillD on Sun Aug 17 18:32:21 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 17 16:30:50 2014. Hahaha, nobody does ignorant, paranoid conspiracy theory quite like you. It has nothing at all to do with the PRR having made capital investments which allowed for superior service with less government funding being required, it's totally because every government bureaucrat had a personal vendetta against the Reading and CNJ.You sir are a master of bullshit. You work in bullshit as other artists may work in marble or oils. |
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| (1308209) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 17 19:55:30 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 17 11:10:01 2014. Snack bar on an RDC? I'd have loved to see that. |
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| (1308265) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Mon Aug 18 03:29:25 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by WillD on Sun Aug 17 18:32:21 2014. +1 |
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| (1308271) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Aug 18 05:42:03 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by WillD on Sun Aug 17 08:07:11 2014. The Reading was vulnerable, being an anthracite road in an era where such a commodity was becoming less valuable WHILE having a huge money losing commuter network AND having to compete with the larger PRR for almost every $. |
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| (1308272) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Aug 18 05:43:48 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 16 19:55:39 2014. That's not regulation, that's subsidization. You only accept that as a last resort, which in the case of Amtrak, it is. |
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| (1308291) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by kp5308 on Mon Aug 18 08:36:36 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by murray1575 on Sun Aug 17 08:42:52 2014. That lead FP7 903 still exists (I'm not sure if it is still in operable condition).#903 is owned by the Philadelphia Chapter NRHS & is at Steamtown along with Reading Tech owned #902. Both need traction motor work among other things. Below is a shot from the East Penn Chamber of Commerce trips along the remaining section of the ex-RDG Perkiomen branch from East Greenville to Emmaus PA in 2007: 
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| (1308300) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by kp5308 on Mon Aug 18 10:50:05 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 17 19:55:30 2014. Snack bar on an RDC? I'd have loved to see that.One of the ex-RDG (nee Boston & Maine) cars still exists on Reading Blue Mountain & Northern roster. The other snack car was an ex-B&M RDC2. Both were rebuilt at Reading Shops & contained a grill section with counter seating for about a half dozen along with 6 tables with seating for 4 each. Photo from 2006:  Additionally an ex-B&O dinette from the Daylight Speedliner order was at Danbury last time we visited (2007): 
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| (1308318) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 18 14:04:34 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Aug 18 05:42:03 2014. Now everything coal is getting shipped to Red China. |
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| (1308333) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Mon Aug 18 15:35:06 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Mon Aug 18 03:29:25 2014. +1 |
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| (1308334) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Mon Aug 18 15:35:31 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by WillD on Sun Aug 17 18:32:21 2014. iawtp..........he has hatred for the government at any level |
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| (1308340) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by chud1 on Mon Aug 18 15:57:16 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by kp5308 on Mon Aug 18 08:36:36 2014. 5 drooling stars out of 5 drooling stars for tis picture.chud1. :).... |
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| (1308345) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 18 16:06:28 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by chud1 on Mon Aug 18 15:57:16 2014. No; ten drooling stars. Worth it to double up. |
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| (1308349) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by kp5308 on Mon Aug 18 16:35:11 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by WillD on Sun Aug 17 08:07:11 2014. And if ever there was a case of the latter it was the Reading in the postwar years. Deferred maintenance leading to government takeover.Wrong. Commuter losses could no longer be cross subsidized by freight traffic income. When RDG served 7000+ industries this was not an issue. As far as deferred maintenance, I'll concede the passenger side suffered from that at the end but RDG was laying welded rail & cleaning ballast on the vital portions of the system right up until it ran out of cash. The Government takeover of RDG was a result of Chessie System & the unions not reaching an agreement before the startup of Conrail. Reading's value has been vindicated by the fact that fully 75% of the trackage is still in use, some of it quite heavily. |
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| (1308350) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 18 17:37:09 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by WillD on Sun Aug 17 08:07:11 2014. LOL! False attribution. Excessive regulation/taxation leading to deferred maintenance (on the PRR) leading to government takeover. |
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| (1308351) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 18 17:55:24 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by WillD on Sun Aug 17 18:32:21 2014. nobody does ignorant, paranoid conspiracy theory quite like. . Wilhelm D. I do history, and that makes you freak out. It has nothing at all to do with the PRR having made capital investments which allowed for superior service with less government funding being required You said I was bullshitting? The fellow I was replying to was referring to the end of Crusader service, when it was being run by government railroad Conrail. Not the PRR. Not the RDG. Are you that dense as to not comprehend the written word? |
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| (1308352) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 18 17:56:44 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Mon Aug 18 03:29:25 2014. But he isn't correct. Do you know how to follow threads? When 3-9 referred to the end of Crusader service, it was being run by the government—NJT/SEPTA via government railroad Conrail. |
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| (1308355) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 18 18:03:43 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 18 17:55:24 2014. Never mind "PRR capital investments"?? LMAO . . . the federal government was putting money towards that because thanks to the aforementioned government interference, the Penn Central (not PRR by then) couldn't underwrite the whole thing. Also thanks to the feds, what was supposed to be 160-mph service was held down to 110 mph.Facts are funny things, ain't they? |
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| (1308375) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Aug 18 20:18:54 2014, in response to Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 16 16:10:49 2014. Didn't Lionel make a very limited set of the Reading Crusader? i know that the estate of a neighbor has one- unopened! |
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| (1308393) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Aug 18 23:39:24 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Aug 18 05:43:48 2014. The point is that without regulation, most to all passenger rail service would have shut down by the 1950s when it was no longer profitable to keep running it. |
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| (1308397) | |
Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 19 01:02:46 2014, in response to Re: Reading Crusader departing Jersey City NJ, 09/28/1957, posted by kp5308 on Mon Aug 18 16:35:11 2014. The Government takeover of RDG was a result of Chessie System & the unions not reaching an agreement before the startup of ConrailNot a direct cause though. |
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