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| (992831) | |
50th St 8th Ave, |
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Posted by jabrams on Fri Oct 22 19:05:15 2010 I had to take the C train at 50th St. at 8th Ave today, downtown side.(Bklyn bound) It appears that there never was a token booth at that station, however there were 3 open low-style turnstyles there. An automated announcement comes over the PA system, stating "The next downtown local is one station away" Now is that a downtown C train at 59th Street or a downtown E train at 7th Ave. Or would the announcement not play on the lower downtown platform? The train arrived shortly, I was in the 7th car. The doors closed an the T/O made an announcement that we were being delayed by an E crossing in front of us. Although we were in the station for about 1 minute, shouldn't the T/O have signalled the conductor to reopen the dooors until the signal cleared? |
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Re: 50th St 8th Ave, |
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Posted by monorail on Fri Oct 22 19:12:01 2010, in response to 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by jabrams on Fri Oct 22 19:05:15 2010. Yes, and you should have walked to the T/O & TOLD him what to do!!!! |
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Re: 50th St 8th Ave, |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Fri Oct 22 21:17:04 2010, in response to 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by jabrams on Fri Oct 22 19:05:15 2010. The next train information system is currently only on the Eighth Avenue Line from 207 Street down, so AFAIK, it won't tell you when the (E) is coming. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: 50th St 8th Ave, |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Oct 23 00:01:05 2010, in response to 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by jabrams on Fri Oct 22 19:05:15 2010. What this really shows is how strange some of the IND's design decisions were. Why not have both uptown tracks upstairs and both downtown tracks downstairs? |
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Re: 50th St 8th Ave, |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sat Oct 23 00:30:47 2010, in response to Re: 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Oct 23 00:01:05 2010. Easier to have both Queens-line tracks on one level and all 4 upper-Manhattan-line tracks on the other. |
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Re: 50th St 8th Ave, |
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Posted by UTC Bus Roster on Sat Oct 23 00:39:32 2010, in response to Re: 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by monorail on Fri Oct 22 19:12:01 2010. It is not your business to tell the T/O anything.The C/R should have held the doors open, as he is supposed to whenever he has a red leaving signal. It prevents an accidental signal overrun. BTW, the automated announcement system still has numerous flaws. It makes an announcement that the next train is 3 stations away when you're on a train sitting in that station with the doors open. Go figure! |
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Re: 50th St 8th Ave, |
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Posted by murray1575 on Sat Oct 23 02:23:19 2010, in response to Re: 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Oct 23 00:01:05 2010. The reason the E trains are on a separate level is to allow the E to turn east under 53rd St. Does anyone know if there are still any signs at this station directing you to Madison Square Garden which of course has long since departed for Penn Station (1968)? I remember taking the E to the old MSG in 1967 (the last full year the Rangers played there) for two games. |
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Re: 50th St 8th Ave, |
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Posted by monorail on Sat Oct 23 02:25:28 2010, in response to Re: 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by UTC Bus Roster on Sat Oct 23 00:39:32 2010. 'It is not your business to tell the T/O anything.'what if there is something wrong that the T/O is unaware of? you know, something dangerous..... 'The C/R should have held the doors open, as he is supposed to whenever he has a red leaving signal' what if he could not SEE the red signal? there was a bulletin many years ago concerning this.... |
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Re: 50th St and 8th Ave. C/E station |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Oct 23 06:21:42 2010, in response to Re: 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by murray1575 on Sat Oct 23 02:23:19 2010. It's well noted the reason there were separate platforms built at 50th was the fact that when the station opened in 1932, what was at the time the "new" MSG (that is still fondly remmbered by old timers) was in fact there, and would be through February 1968 when the current MSG opened (that ironically is now the oldest building currently in use in both the NBA and NHL, and will be for some time to come as it's about to be renovated). That's also why there were exits to 49th Street (with the one on the downtown side re-opened when Worldwide Plaza opened)The one thing that probably should have been done there given that MSG was there at the time the 8th Avenue line was under construction was to make that a two-island platform express stop with a mezzanine on top, A/C platforms on the middle level and on the lower level (three down), side platforms for the E. |
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Re: 50th St 8th Ave, |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Oct 23 10:33:26 2010, in response to Re: 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by italianstallion on Sat Oct 23 00:30:47 2010. Not really. The 53rd St line is on two levels. It would be much simpler to continue that around the corner, and have the (C) and (E) across the platform from each other at 50th, with the express tracks west of both the (C) and the (E) on the uptown level. |
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Re: 50th St 8th Ave, |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Oct 23 12:01:48 2010, in response to Re: 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Oct 23 10:33:26 2010. This is the sort of thing I am suggesting:
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Re: 50th St 8th Ave, |
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Posted by Gene B. on Sat Oct 23 14:46:15 2010, in response to Re: 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Oct 23 12:01:48 2010. This type of hypothetical original thinking is one of the best things about this website. I would like to see more of this. |
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Re: 50th St 8th Ave, |
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Posted by jabrams on Sat Oct 23 16:52:47 2010, in response to Re: 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by monorail on Fri Oct 22 19:12:01 2010. However, the rear section of the train (I don't know about the front section) was closed, and it is illegal to walk through the cars. |
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Re: 50th St 8th Ave, |
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Posted by jabrams on Sat Oct 23 16:54:55 2010, in response to Re: 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by monorail on Sat Oct 23 02:25:28 2010. Shouldn't the T/O single buzzed the conductor to reopen the doors. After the T/O made the announcement there was a second announcement confirming the first (might have been from the conductor). |
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Re: 50th St and 8th Ave. C/E station |
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Posted by jabrams on Sat Oct 23 16:59:43 2010, in response to Re: 50th St and 8th Ave. C/E station, posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Oct 23 06:21:42 2010. The downtown side only has one exit (there may be another one at 49th St) at 50th St. The platform starts at 50th St. and heads towards 52nd St. with no exit above 50th. I also don't think there is a stairway to the lower level beyond 50th. The uptown platform also has an exit/entrance at 51st. |
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Re: 50th St 8th Ave, |
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Posted by monorail on Sat Oct 23 17:01:41 2010, in response to Re: 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by jabrams on Sat Oct 23 16:52:47 2010. 'and it is illegal to walk through the cars'you mean, I can get a ticket for walking from one end of a car to the other?????????????? |
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Re: 50th St 8th Ave, |
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Posted by monorail on Sat Oct 23 17:03:27 2010, in response to Re: 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by jabrams on Sat Oct 23 16:54:55 2010. yes, that would have helped.perhaps it was done and the c/r opened the front section which you would not have known since you were in the back...... |
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Re: 50th St 8th Ave, |
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Posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sat Oct 23 17:08:16 2010, in response to Re: 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by jabrams on Sat Oct 23 16:52:47 2010. I thought it was only illegal to walk through the cars when the train is in motion. |
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Re: 50th St 8th Ave, |
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Posted by jabrams on Sat Oct 23 17:13:28 2010, in response to Re: 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sat Oct 23 17:08:16 2010. No, I think it is illegal even if the train is in the terminal station. |
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Re: 50th St 8th Ave, |
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Posted by jabrams on Sat Oct 23 17:14:57 2010, in response to Re: 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by jabrams on Sat Oct 23 16:54:55 2010. Since there are no exits/entrances except at the front of the station, it is possible the front of the train reopenned or never closed. It was an R32 train. |
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Re: 50th St 8th Ave, |
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Posted by rtype3995 on Sat Oct 23 17:17:43 2010, in response to 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by jabrams on Fri Oct 22 19:05:15 2010. What the t/o or c/r did or did not do is none of your concern.....as long as u get to your destination safely,that's all that should be your business.....If anyone wants to play ta supervisor,take the test..... |
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Re: 50th St 8th Ave, |
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Posted by arnine on Sat Oct 23 17:31:14 2010, in response to 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by jabrams on Fri Oct 22 19:05:15 2010. They probably wanted to be ready to go when the signal cleared and not increase dwell time more. I think it is the crews prerogative and they did nothing wrong. |
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Re: 50th St 8th Ave, |
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Posted by MATHA531 on Sat Oct 23 17:58:32 2010, in response to 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by jabrams on Fri Oct 22 19:05:15 2010. As indicated, there are so many things that seem illogical throughout the system.,...all probably caused either y late changes in thinking and/or adapting as cheaply as possible for decisions already made. Some of the ones I have lived through...1. A terminal station at GFlatbush Avenue/Brooklyn College where the main entrance means a walk around if the next train is on the other side (or if you want a #5 weekdays or are coming in on a #5)...obviously it was never meant to be a permanent terminal. 2. The two level construction at Nostrand Avenue/Fulton Street...was it originally meant to be a local station and a last minute decision to make it an express station where construction was already under way and the only to accomplish this was to bring the express tracks up to where the concourse was going to be? 3. Dekalb Avenue always looks to me like the tracks against the wall were afterthoughts...that it was originally meant to be a local stationon the 4th Avenue line with the express tracks heading for the bridge and the local tracks heading for the tunnel? 4. The whole set up at Smith-9th Street....was it ever meant to be a permanent terminal (in this case for the G) or was it originally set up waiting for the South Brooklyn branch to be finished with the natural terminal at Church Avenue? 5. The stupidity of the set ups at 34th Street on both 7th and 8th Avenue where if you're waiting on the express tracks and a local train arrives first you really can't get there from here if you know what I mean. 6. The whole set up at Rogers junction on the IRT. Back in the days of being able to ride in the first car, I could never understand the construction there as in effect the way it was (and remains) constructed, in effect the local trains leaving Franklin in effect merge onto the express tracks while the express trains merge off to form a new express track heading to Utica...why shouldn't it have just been bujilt straight with one switch from express to local for those Lexington trains heading for Flatbush and/or local via EP? There must be reasons for all these...but somehow the logic of all these things escape me and I am sure there are many more. |
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Re: 50th St and 8th Ave. C/E station |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Oct 23 21:11:51 2010, in response to Re: 50th St and 8th Ave. C/E station, posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Oct 23 06:21:42 2010. About the only express stop near a sporting venue in the olden days was Prospect Park, near Ebbets Field. Today, of course, you have Mets-Willets Point. |
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Re: 50th St 8th Ave, |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Oct 23 21:15:24 2010, in response to Re: 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by MATHA531 on Sat Oct 23 17:58:32 2010. DeKalb was in fact originally planned as a four-track local stop with the outer tracks added as an afterthought.The 34th St. stations on the 7th and 8th Ave. were built that way on purpose - to discourage across-the-platform transfers. On top of that, they're both right beneath the street and above the tracks through Penn Station. You couldn't fit a mezzanine between the street and the tracks. |
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Re: 50th St 8th Ave, |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Oct 23 23:31:16 2010, in response to Re: 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sat Oct 23 17:08:16 2010. "I thought it was only illegal to walk through the cars when the train is in motion."That is the LIRR rule. On the subway, it seems not to be allowed at all. |
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Re: 50th St 8th Ave, |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Sat Oct 23 23:59:09 2010, in response to Re: 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sat Oct 23 17:08:16 2010. It's not allowed at all. |
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Re: 50th St 8th Ave, |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Sun Oct 24 00:02:56 2010, in response to Re: 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by MATHA531 on Sat Oct 23 17:58:32 2010. The two level construction at Nostrand Avenue/Fulton Street...was it originally meant to be a local station and a last minute decision to make it an express station where construction was already under way and the only to accomplish this was to bring the express tracks up to where the concourse was going to be?Something like that. Since the four tracks were all right next to each other, it would've been difficult to construct an island platform, so they ramped the express tracks up and sacrificed the full-length mezzanine. |
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Re: 50th St and 8th Ave. C/E station |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Oct 24 00:07:33 2010, in response to Re: 50th St and 8th Ave. C/E station, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Oct 23 21:11:51 2010. 155th Street on the Ninth Avenue El was an express stop. |
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Re: 50th St 8th Ave, |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Oct 24 00:10:11 2010, in response to Re: 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by MATHA531 on Sat Oct 23 17:58:32 2010. The South Brooklyn line opened all at once: Smith-9th and Church Avenue opened on the same day. I think the problem was lack of capacity to turn both trains at Church, which became moot in 1954. |
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Re: 50th St 8th Ave, |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Oct 24 02:07:32 2010, in response to Re: 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by Gene B. on Sat Oct 23 14:46:15 2010. Well you won't. You only get this kind of good stuff from a select few posters here. The rest of the posters post garbage. |
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Re: 50th St 8th Ave, |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Oct 24 02:08:58 2010, in response to Re: 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by rtype3995 on Sat Oct 23 17:17:43 2010. No. |
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Re: 50th St 8th Ave, |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Oct 24 02:09:33 2010, in response to Re: 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by arnine on Sat Oct 23 17:31:14 2010. I think it is the crews prerogative and they did nothing wrong. Apparently you thought wrong. |
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Re: 50th St 8th Ave, |
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Posted by Gold_12th on Sun Oct 24 02:49:04 2010, in response to Re: 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Oct 24 02:07:32 2010. like you getting ready to eat shit?
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Re: 50th St and 8th Ave. C/E station |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Oct 24 03:09:23 2010, in response to Re: 50th St and 8th Ave. C/E station, posted by jabrams on Sat Oct 23 16:59:43 2010. There is a 49th Street exit from the lower level only on the downtown side only now that was re-opened when Worldwide Plaza opened in 1989. There also was one on the uptown side of the old MSG since the old MSG was actually between 49th and 50th streets. |
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Re: 34th Street 7th & 8th Avenue Stations |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Oct 24 04:24:11 2010, in response to Re: 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Oct 23 21:15:24 2010. Correct:The two 34th Street Stations above and below Penn Station were built for people to enter/exit specific trains, NOT make across-the-platform transfers, etc. If you also notice, the middle (express) platform at both 34th Street stations are a bit offset from the local platforms. |
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Re: 34th Street 7th & 8th Avenue Stations |
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Posted by MATHA531 on Sun Oct 24 04:29:41 2010, in response to Re: 34th Street 7th & 8th Avenue Stations, posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Oct 24 04:24:11 2010. ...but here is why it is sort of illogical....I get on at 34th Street heading for let's say W 4fth Street....now there are not that many local stations that the difference in time between the express and local is all that significant so the question is where is it best to go; to the local platform or the express platform? Of course when it was built, trains ran every couple of minutes all day so it really made no difference...now it might be 10 minutes between A trains and 12 minutes between C trains...so tell me without the train arrival boards which so many here oppose, how am I supposed to know which platform is best? Makes little sense today but not much we can do about it now. |
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Re: 34th Street 7th & 8th Avenue Stations |
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Posted by murray1575 on Sun Oct 24 05:09:10 2010, in response to Re: 34th Street 7th & 8th Avenue Stations, posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Oct 24 04:24:11 2010. A similar platform arrangement exists at Atlantic Ave. on the 2/3/4/5 lines which is now a major subway transfer point as well as a transfer point to the LIRR. This station actually predates the ones at NYP as it opened in 1908. This one was difficult and unpleasant at best to navigate until recent improvements were made by the MTA. |
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Re: 50th St 8th Ave, |
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Posted by arnine on Sun Oct 24 08:15:08 2010, in response to Re: 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Oct 24 02:09:33 2010. Ok my apologies |
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Re: 50th St 8th Ave, |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Oct 24 08:24:03 2010, in response to Re: 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Oct 23 21:15:24 2010. As I've mentioned before, DeKalb isn't the poorly-designed station there. It's Myrtle only ever having been a local stop (and currently half a closed one) that's the problem. If Myrtle had been built as an express stop, there would be cross-platform transfers between all Southern BMT lines over a group of three stations: And as my colors suggest, with those cross-platform transfers, crossing trains over and slowly gumming up the railroad would be obsolete. |
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Re: 34th Street 7th & 8th Avenue Stations |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Oct 24 15:14:43 2010, in response to Re: 34th Street 7th & 8th Avenue Stations, posted by murray1575 on Sun Oct 24 05:09:10 2010. Is it true that Atlantic Ave. was originally built as a two-track terminus with an island platform and that the the outer tracks and platforms were added later? |
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Re: 50th St and 8th Ave. C/E station |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Oct 24 15:17:14 2010, in response to Re: 50th St and 8th Ave. C/E station, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Oct 24 00:07:33 2010. Oops, missed that one. |
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Re: 34th Street 7th & 8th Avenue Stations |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Oct 24 16:03:16 2010, in response to Re: 34th Street 7th & 8th Avenue Stations, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Oct 24 15:14:43 2010. Tracks, yes, platforms, no. |
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Re: 34th Street 7th & 8th Avenue Stations |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Oct 24 16:09:22 2010, in response to Re: 34th Street 7th & 8th Avenue Stations, posted by MATHA531 on Sun Oct 24 04:29:41 2010. Basically, you make a choice and stick with it. If the E is running it's always better to go for the local, if not, the A is better (every 8 minutes while the C is every 10).I used to wait downstairs and watch the annunciator until they rearranged the south lower level fare control area to not include the downtown local. The only time this really sucks is if you picked express, and the next A was sent local. |
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Re: 34th Street 7th & 8th Avenue Stations |
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Posted by R38 4149 on Sun Oct 24 16:21:38 2010, in response to Re: 34th Street 7th & 8th Avenue Stations, posted by MATHA531 on Sun Oct 24 04:29:41 2010. Actually it's almost a moot point now. There are train arrival time boards on the A line between 207th and 59th St., stating how far away the next train is. They're working on expanding this system to 23rd St. in the coming weeks, so you won't have this problem for much longer. |
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Re: 50th St and 8th Ave. C/E station |
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Posted by monorail on Sun Oct 24 18:33:34 2010, in response to Re: 50th St and 8th Ave. C/E station, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Oct 24 15:17:14 2010. was there some track work? |
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Re: 34th Street 7th & 8th Avenue Stations |
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Posted by Gene B. on Sun Oct 24 20:59:47 2010, in response to Re: 34th Street 7th & 8th Avenue Stations, posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Oct 24 04:24:11 2010. Those stations were built that way on purpose to discourage an across the platform transfer at that express stop. A downtown rider could make the across the platform switch at 42nd St. and an uptown rider could do it at 14th St, both in close proximity to 34th St. The only people who would possibly be inconvenienced are those that board at 34th St, and they can switch at the above stops. |
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| (993538) | |
Re: 34th Street 7th & 8th Avenue Stations |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Oct 24 21:17:47 2010, in response to Re: 34th Street 7th & 8th Avenue Stations, posted by Gene B. on Sun Oct 24 20:59:47 2010. "The only people who would possibly be inconvenienced are those that board at 34th St, and they can switch at the above stops."But you most likely can't switch to the train you just missed if you picked the wrong platform and were just looking for the next train, as I often am when I am headed to Broadway-Lafayette from Penn Station New York. By the time you get to the next cross-platform transfer, that train will usually be gone. |
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Re: 34th Street 7th & 8th Avenue Stations |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Oct 24 22:18:07 2010, in response to Re: 34th Street 7th & 8th Avenue Stations, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Oct 24 21:17:47 2010. But you most likely can't switch to the train you just missed if you picked the wrong platform and were just looking for the next train Exactly. Which is why they need to get PA/CIS installed at these stations already. |
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Re: 50th St & 8th Ave. Station |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Oct 25 04:58:54 2010, in response to Re: 50th St 8th Ave,, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Oct 23 12:01:48 2010. That would have been a very interesting design, though again, I believe they did the two platforms there specifically because Madison Square Garden was above that station when it was built in 1932.Still think (as noted in another post) given MSG was there at the time, they should have built that as an express stop with a mezzanine, then the A/C on two island platforms on the upper (actually in this case, middle) level and then the E on a lower level with either one island or two side platforms. |
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