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Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by BMTLines on Thu Jul 1 13:20:57 2010 Story here |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Thu Jul 1 13:37:16 2010, in response to Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by BMTLines on Thu Jul 1 13:20:57 2010. Wow. That is positively outrageous! This is yet ANOTHER case of front line employees not understanding the policies of the system and wrongly enforcing this misinformation.It's remarkable that a security team could actually BAN people from riding a publically funded system. Plus, the lies that were spewed...WOW! Yeah, I fully support whatever lawsuit may come from this. Guess I will revoke my plans to visit the Miami area. Thanks for sharing! |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Jul 1 13:38:57 2010, in response to Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by BMTLines on Thu Jul 1 13:20:57 2010. Bunch of underinformed power-tripping assholes. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by Randyo on Thu Jul 1 14:02:28 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Thu Jul 1 13:37:16 2010. I wonder if after some time, any of Metrorail's Keystone Kops would even remember who these "banned" individuals are. |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Thu Jul 1 14:04:31 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by Randyo on Thu Jul 1 14:02:28 2010. indeed. Of course, I wouldn't put it past them if they put up notices with blown up photos of each person's ID, similar to a wanted poster!At the same time, are they banned from the system or can they just use other stations along the line? |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 1 14:14:54 2010, in response to Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by BMTLines on Thu Jul 1 13:20:57 2010. Holy $%^&! I've been in contact with Stretch Ledford for the past few days and this is amazing. |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Thu Jul 1 14:42:01 2010, in response to Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by BMTLines on Thu Jul 1 13:20:57 2010. I'm pretty sure this was a simple misunderstanding. I've taken dozens of Metro pics and I've had no problems. |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 1 14:49:27 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by Forest Glen on Thu Jul 1 14:42:01 2010. I'm pretty sure this was a simple misunderstanding. I've taken dozens of Metro pics and I've had no problems. Um... Take Pride,
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by RailBus63 on Thu Jul 1 15:24:53 2010, in response to Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by BMTLines on Thu Jul 1 13:20:57 2010. Hopefully, Stretch and Carlos follow through with the proper authorities and bring this nonsense to a halt once and for all. |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by Brighton Private on Thu Jul 1 16:50:08 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by Forest Glen on Thu Jul 1 14:42:01 2010. No way it was a simple misunderstanding. The cops knew they were wrong and so lied -- flagrantly -- that they were told the photography was for commercial purposes, which, if true, would have given them the right to prohibit it without a permit.That is classic cop lying -- just as when they beat someone up and falsely claim the person was "resisting arrest" -- and is the real reason they don't like people videotaping them. |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by bmtlines on Thu Jul 1 17:24:14 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by RailBus63 on Thu Jul 1 15:24:53 2010. I know Carlos will - he has legal and press connections. This is far from over |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by mike cruz on Thu Jul 1 17:36:36 2010, in response to Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by BMTLines on Thu Jul 1 13:20:57 2010. thats why i hate this state. |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Jul 1 17:47:38 2010, in response to Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by BMTLines on Thu Jul 1 13:20:57 2010. Hate to tell but moment the Photographer used the wording its "for the project", it becomes commercial photography.putting himself on legal thin iCe. |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Thu Jul 1 18:21:36 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Jul 1 17:47:38 2010. The phrase, "for the project" is referring to a class project. Remember that Mr. Ledford is working on his Masters degree at University of Miami.Had you taken the time to read the blog posts associated with the video in the original post, you would have known that as well. From Mr. Ledford's blog: As a graduate student in the multimedia journalism program at the University of Miami’s School of Communication, I was assigned a project as part of Professor Sam Terilli’s 2010 Media Law and Ethics Seminar (CNJ 614) that called upon me to create a report concerning one of the class topics – the “legal and ethical issues concerning First Amendment theories and practices regarding defamation, privacy, freedom of information, free press vs. fair trial, reporter privilege, access to media, intellectual property, obscenity, broadcasting, and new media.” |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by Railman718 on Thu Jul 1 18:24:55 2010, in response to Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by BMTLines on Thu Jul 1 13:20:57 2010. UnEffingBelievable.....Shakes Head... |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by kahlua on Thu Jul 1 18:56:41 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Jul 1 17:47:38 2010. Dutch is right, by saying "the project" it seems like it was commercial or just to mess with the cops. I dunno if arguing with 5 cops is the way to go about this though... Next time instead of letting security call the cops, call them your self and beat them to the punch. |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jul 1 18:59:08 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by kahlua on Thu Jul 1 18:56:41 2010. Actually, if you have the documentation that says that you have the right, the SMART thing to do is ask for a supervisor and explain that what the low end cop was instructed isn't entirely correct. Getting belligerent doesn't help the situation at all. |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by BMTLines on Thu Jul 1 19:02:01 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Jul 1 17:47:38 2010. Not every project is "commercial" |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by Easy on Thu Jul 1 19:23:58 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Jul 1 17:47:38 2010. I don't believe you for a second. |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by Easy on Thu Jul 1 19:26:16 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by kahlua on Thu Jul 1 18:56:41 2010. Dutch didn't say that saying "the project" would give the impression that it was commercial, he said that saying "for the project" makes it commercial. IOW seeming to break a law isn't quite the same thing as breaking a law. |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by Easy on Thu Jul 1 19:30:36 2010, in response to Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by BMTLines on Thu Jul 1 13:20:57 2010. What's terrible is that the photographers did everything right. They were polite, they explained themselves, they did as they were told, they spoke to (and likely requested) supervisors, etc. Yet at every step they came in contact with clueless people. I normally think that these photographers have tudes, but I hope that these guys sue. Threatened with arrest even after being cleared?!? Refused entry into the system?!? Banned for life?!? Bunch of assholes!! |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 1 19:38:50 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Jul 1 17:47:38 2010. Hate to tell but moment the Photographer used the wording its "for the project", it becomes commercial photography. putting himself on legal thin iCe. I don't at all mind telling you that as usual on the topic of photography, you are wrong. Very wrong. Take Pride,
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 1 19:39:36 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by kahlua on Thu Jul 1 18:56:41 2010. Dutch is right, by saying "the project" it seems like it was commercial or just to mess with the cops. No, Dutch is not right. He usually never is on this topic. Take Pride,
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Jul 1 20:20:37 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by R36 #9346 on Thu Jul 1 18:21:36 2010. That does make it a Commercial project |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 1 20:25:54 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by Forest Glen on Thu Jul 1 14:42:01 2010. I've taken dozens of Metro pics and I've had no problems. Really? Where and where did you take the pics? Take Pride,
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 1 20:26:35 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Jul 1 20:20:37 2010. That does make it a Commercial project LOL, not it certainly does not! You can't be serious... Take Pride,
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by Fred G on Thu Jul 1 20:55:12 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Jul 1 17:47:38 2010. I disagree, as it could be a school project or some other non-profit endeavor.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by Fred G on Thu Jul 1 20:59:05 2010, in response to Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by BMTLines on Thu Jul 1 13:20:57 2010. This is the kind of scenario where I am the one who calls the police on the non-emergency number. I had similar occur at Bridgeport and phoned up the Metro-North Police, who explained the rules to the Security Guards at BRP.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Thu Jul 1 20:59:50 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Jul 1 17:47:38 2010. Too hard to say if it was commercial or not!! If it was commercial, and they were doing it without the proper permission and permits, then yes they are totally in the wrong. But if it was not commercial, and the authorities hassled them like that, and made all these threats of arrest without stating any real charges as to what they were gonna be arrested for, than I would say a big lawsuit is in the works!!Either way, belligerence is NOT the way to go about things!! Let's make a long story short here, I am going to try to find if anywhere online if there is a photo policy of any kind for MDT property. If there is, I will be happy to post it unless someone here beats me to the punch!! Maybe then we can make better interpretations and understandings as to who was right or wrong in this instance. I say both sides had too many hot heads!! |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by BMTLines on Thu Jul 1 21:08:04 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Thu Jul 1 20:59:50 2010. I had posted the response another photographer received Last YearFrom: Kapoor, Harpal (MDT You may be right belligerence is not the way to go about things - LAWSUITS ARE!! They really messed with the wrong guy. Carlos Miller is one of the leading photo rights advocates in the US today. His blog gets tens of thousands of page views daily and he has been featured in newspaper and TV interviews. |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Thu Jul 1 21:23:07 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by BMTLines on Thu Jul 1 21:08:04 2010. Miami-Dade Transit Passenger Safety RulesUnder County Ordinance #30B, are following acts are considered unlawful on any transit vehicle or any part of the transit system: (Bullet #24) Taking still, sound or motion picture recordings for commercial, training or educational purposes (exception of news coverage), without prior written authorization by MDT or The County Manager. Again, to me it is hard to say what the deal is here, but it kind of does look like what they were doing was more commercial, and not railfanning or for hobbyist personal use or purposes (i.e., like what myself, Fred G, Trevor Logan and all the other great contributors here do). If and when this goes to court, depending on how this goes forward, we will see and know in due time what the determination is. But either way, there was way too many hot heads and too much pissin'-match behavior going on!!! |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by BMTLines on Thu Jul 1 21:35:56 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Thu Jul 1 21:23:07 2010. Again, to me it is hard to say what the deal is here, but it kind of does look like what they were doing was more commercial,Commercial = advertising or sales - who is going to buy the pictures? Watch the tape carefully - the rent-a-cops insist that ALL photography is banned, not just commercial photography. We need to put an end to this type of harassment! Complying and walking away is not working - the only solution is to repeatedly sue these cops and the transit agencies that harass photographers. |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jul 1 21:37:53 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by BMTLines on Thu Jul 1 21:08:04 2010. Don't mean to step in this, I really don't ... but he DID say it was for a "project" on his "film." By making that statement, he removed his photography from "personal" and made it "NOT personal." I think he blew his own case, and he's got a recording of it. I see some interesting arguments ahead as a result. |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by Railman718 on Thu Jul 1 21:43:17 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jul 1 21:37:53 2010. Don't mean to step in this, I really don't ... but he DID say it was for a "project" on his "film." By making that statement, he removed his photography from "personal" and made it "NOT personal." I think he blew his own case, and he's got a recording of it. I see some interesting arguments ahead as a result.Then maybe he should have said "School Project" them let then act like the goons they are... Would make the lawsuit even sweetier.. |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by BMTLines on Thu Jul 1 21:43:20 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jul 1 21:37:53 2010. But when he insists that the project is not commercial the rent-a-cops turn around and repeatedly state that ALL photography is banned.This is going to get coverage. Carlos Miller has a lot of media connections |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jul 1 21:50:28 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by BMTLines on Thu Jul 1 21:43:20 2010. From the letter I read and the PDF file, they seem to claim that "PERSONAL" photography (such as tourists do) is OK, but they seem to limit it quite clearly to that scenario and yet also state "don't be surprised if we challenge you, we will." So even if it were a tourist, it would all comedown to how all sides handled it. In looking at the video, the cops of all types were quite firm and professional and avoided crossing the line.Like I said, this should be interesting to see where it goes since nobody misbehaved. But that "project" rap did NOT help his case ... |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jul 1 21:51:49 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by Railman718 on Thu Jul 1 21:43:17 2010. Like I said, should be interesting to see where this goes ... but "school project" is no longer "personal use" for those who believe in "strict interpretation" by a judge ... |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Thu Jul 1 21:56:34 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by BMTLines on Thu Jul 1 21:35:56 2010. I did note that, and yeah that is indeed absurd and false!! Then again, you said it best.....RENT A COPS!! :-D What do they know about anything???? :-P |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 1 22:55:35 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Thu Jul 1 20:59:50 2010. Too hard to say if it was commercial or not!! It's not hard to say at all. It wasn't commercial. Plain and simple. Let's make a long story short here, I am going to try to find if anywhere online if there is a photo policy of any kind for MDT property. Smacking my head... When will you learn a very simple fact? Amateur photography is NOT PROHIBITED on any transit system in America that I am aware of except for on PATH, and their prohibition might not even stand up in court. So why do you keep looking for these prohibitions? And commercial photography is almost always restricted, so why look for the regulations? If it's amateur, which this was, then you're in the clear, and if it's commercial then you shouldn't be doing it without following the proper proceedures. Take Pride,
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 1 22:57:00 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Thu Jul 1 21:23:07 2010. Again, to me it is hard to say what the deal is here, but it kind of does look like what they were doing was more commercial Again, it's not hard at all to see that what they were doing was not commercial. Take Pride,
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 1 22:58:08 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jul 1 21:37:53 2010. By making that statement, he removed his photography from "personal" and made it "NOT personal." And once again you're incorrect. Take Pride,
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by Railman718 on Thu Jul 1 22:58:44 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jul 1 21:51:49 2010. Like I said, should be interesting to see where this goes ... but "school project" is no longer "personal use" for those who believe in "strict interpretation" by a judge ...Ah gotta love those "grey areas".... |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Thu Jul 1 23:01:37 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 1 20:25:54 2010. June 2010 Green line (Branch Avenue and Suitland)December 2009 Green line (U Street/Cardozo, Fort Totten, Greenbelt), Red line (Silver Spring) June 2009 Blue Line-Foggy Bottom/GWU, Franconia/Springfield, King Street, Red line-Rockville March 2009 Red line-Twinbrook, Takoma, Green line-Naylor Road Orange line- West Falls Church April 2008 Blue line-Largo Town Center, Orange line-East Falls Church, Vienna/Fairfax, Red line-Glenmont, Brookland/CUA, Shady Grove As you can see I've taken many pics of America's Transit System. I've never had any problems with the Metro police. In fact, Metro personnel are polite and courteous. |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Thu Jul 1 23:13:35 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by Forest Glen on Thu Jul 1 23:01:37 2010. Never mind, this video is about the Miami Metrorail. I was in a hurry and I didn't bother to look at the video. |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 1 23:51:37 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by Forest Glen on Thu Jul 1 23:13:35 2010. Never mind, this video is about the Miami Metrorail. I was in a hurry and I didn't bother to look at the video. Of course the video is about Miami. But I knew that without even watching the video. Wanna know how? I clicked on and read ONE LINE of the article in the link!!!!!! If you're too busy to read the content in the posts then how do you have time to reply to them? And why are you even replying if you don't read them first? Take Pride,
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jul 1 23:52:29 2010, in response to Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by BMTLines on Thu Jul 1 13:20:57 2010. Don't they need more people running the trains instead of bugging photographers . . . ? The robots have rebelled, after all. |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jul 1 23:53:29 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 1 23:51:37 2010. If you're too busy to read the content in the postsEverybody is. You're the abnormal one that reads every post. You need time in a sanitarium. |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by Easy on Fri Jul 2 00:03:09 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jul 1 23:53:29 2010. Perhaps, but you have to at least get the basics. When I read "Metrorail" in the title my first thought was "which one?". Plus the youtube capture doesn't look like WMATA. |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Fri Jul 2 00:20:27 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Jul 1 20:20:37 2010. On what basis is a school assignment a "commercial project"?It's not like people actually make real money off of something done as a homework assignment. |
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Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jul 2 00:20:39 2010, in response to Re: Metrorail Outrage - Photographers Banned, posted by Railman718 on Thu Jul 1 22:58:44 2010. That's why attorneys exist ... best bullshitter wins. :) |
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