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| Re: R188 order goes to. . . (927848) | |
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Re: R188 order goes to. . . |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sun Apr 25 21:43:22 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Grand Concourse on Sun Apr 25 19:48:00 2010. I figure they would start with 2151-2-3-4-5 and work their way back. Might take some work and some trades with the Shuttle fleet to have consecutive numbered sets below 1961-5. |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Sun Apr 25 22:21:46 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sun Apr 25 21:43:22 2010. Agreed. I figure the 1900s would be the last to be linked [not to mention 1909? is/was at the Fresh Kills landfill - so one set will be left as permanent singles]. Hopefully they'll get around to rennovating the TS platforms to allow a full 5-car train to run. |
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Re: R188 order goes to. . . |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Sun Apr 25 22:40:56 2010, in response to R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Gold_12th on Sun Apr 25 14:31:24 2010. I wonder what vacated numbers the R-188's will use.Bill Newkirk |
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Re: R188 order goes to. . . |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Apr 25 22:52:38 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Grand Concourse on Sun Apr 25 18:16:13 2010. no way...The 2 most likely would lose MOST of its cars[300-plus out of 450] to the 6..replacing the 142a with 142s..while the 62s head over to the West side... |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Sun Apr 25 23:15:18 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Edwards! on Sun Apr 25 22:52:38 2010. Maybe I'm just thinking of the 2/5 terminal at Flatbush, but why are some posters here saying it's the 2 that will be getting the R62As? Am I missing something? |
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Posted by Randyo on Mon Apr 26 01:35:46 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Grand Concourse on Sun Apr 25 23:15:18 2010. Because unlike the 6, the 2 has the least number of variations in terminals other than the 1 and 3. In the AM there are selected intervals scheduled to lay up at N/Lts instead of Flatbush, but in the PM all trains including those departing N/Lts can be signed to read Flatbush to E241 since there are no PM intervals scheduled to terminate at N/Lts and they will be already signed up for the proper return trip. |
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Posted by Randyo on Mon Apr 26 01:37:57 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Apr 25 21:01:32 2010. It must be assumed that save for the 7 Line extension to Javits and the SAS there will be no significant new construction on the NYCTS for the foreseeable future. |
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Posted by Randyo on Mon Apr 26 01:39:32 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Grand Concourse on Sun Apr 25 19:44:55 2010. The 4 has selected intervals which terminate at Bwl Grn in both rush hours and midnight service operates to N/Lts which makes too many signs to change for the amount of personnel available to change them. |
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Posted by Randyo on Mon Apr 26 01:41:29 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Grand Concourse on Sun Apr 25 20:44:14 2010. What 2 car "pairs?" |
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Posted by Randyo on Mon Apr 26 01:43:22 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Newkirk Images on Sun Apr 25 22:40:56 2010. Not only that but since the extra non cabs will be in some place other than the head end the numbering sequence of the "units" will be compromised. |
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Posted by 9 local on Mon Apr 26 02:08:51 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Randyo on Mon Apr 26 01:35:46 2010. However, the 7 line R62As will have the option for (6) and <6> automated. That would be the place to put those cars. |
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Posted by 9 local on Mon Apr 26 02:12:26 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Randyo on Mon Apr 26 01:39:32 2010. Yeah, but b/c of Flatbush terminal and swapping 2s and 5s, it's not logical. This is why the W went R160 so fast: the flexibility of being able to turn any train into any other train is something you can't really ignore. |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Mon Apr 26 02:32:07 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by 9 local on Mon Apr 26 02:08:51 2010. Yup yup. Only thing will be the Pelham Bay Park/Parkchester destination signs, but that's not a big deal as the trains are put-in with their proper signs, and generally never go out of place, thanks to the City Hall loop. |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Mon Apr 26 02:59:59 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Randyo on Mon Apr 26 01:41:29 2010. For a time the 7 had like 2155-2156, 2041-2042 or such consecutive numbered pairs. This was when only a handful of trains had the LED signs before it was implemented on all the cars. |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Mon Apr 26 03:00:49 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Randyo on Mon Apr 26 01:35:46 2010. Ok, I see. |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Mon Apr 26 03:10:56 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by 9 local on Mon Apr 26 02:12:26 2010. Exactly. Astoria-Ditmars and Flatbush-Nostrand are pretty much the same situation. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Apr 26 05:26:02 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Edwards! on Sun Apr 25 22:52:38 2010. correction..the 6 has around 450 142a cars...the 2..around 380... So the 2 would swap out its fleet for 62a..while the 6 would lose 300 plus 142a to the 7..keeping only 100 plus 142a. everybody will still be happy..the west side will have all 62/62a..the east all NTT. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Apr 26 05:32:46 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Edwards! on Mon Apr 26 05:26:02 2010. I'm sure the west side will be really pleased ... and that's where most of the television and media people live. Even Letterman rides the west side. This could be FUN. :) |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Apr 26 05:55:24 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Apr 26 05:32:46 2010. yeah..but really..the 1/3 use 62s..would anybody REALLY miss the fancy bells/lady talking your ear off.."The next stop is ..Chambers street..."while all you want to do is CHILL? I think not.. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Apr 26 06:01:35 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Edwards! on Mon Apr 26 05:55:24 2010. Heh. Wouldn't know ... should be interesting to see what comes of it - maybe Liu forgot that there's politicos marking their territory over yonder too. After all, that's what it's about. =) |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Apr 26 06:10:06 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Apr 26 06:01:35 2010. whatcha doing up..workin? |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Apr 26 11:21:18 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Apr 25 14:50:43 2010. If you read the documentation, the contract requires that the cars be 100% compatible with existing NTT cars, and the only qualified bidders are those that built the A Division NTT cars. Bombardier is the only other company to build NTT cars for the A division, and they indicated that they declined to submit a proposal. So Kawasaki will win the bid; this summary says 'skip the bidding process, we MUST go with this contractor.' |
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Re: R188 order goes to. . . |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Apr 26 11:23:32 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Apr 25 15:30:46 2010. Again, reading the documentation provided shows the funding for the base order of the cars is included in the current capital plan; funding for the option order is in the next capital plan. So the money for the base order, at least, is already there. |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Apr 26 11:28:17 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by nasadowsk on Sun Apr 25 16:37:40 2010. The documentation in the post says Bombardier declined to bid because the engineering required is too great for such a small order. |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Apr 26 11:31:44 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Grand Concourse on Sun Apr 25 19:46:59 2010. It's been a while since I was on the 5, and I didn't pay attention when I was on the 2 Friday night that got sent to SF for the GO, but the R142/142A cars don't have a FIND, they've got the 'moving dot' strip map display on the train to indicate stations. Wouldn't those strip maps need to be replaced for the cars to alternate lines? |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Mon Apr 26 13:10:20 2010, in response to R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Gold_12th on Sun Apr 25 14:31:24 2010. Wow, this is for real? Whatever happened to that infamous R-179 order. Has that been awarded and purchased? |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Mon Apr 26 14:35:17 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Newkirk Images on Sun Apr 25 22:40:56 2010. Well, if the total of the contract is < 190 cars, they could just start at 7811 (after the last R-142A) and go up to 8000 (if they "decertify" the R-110A, that would free up 8001-8100. Beyond that, could get tricky. |
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Posted by R32_3671 on Mon Apr 26 14:53:10 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by FYBklyn1959 on Mon Apr 26 14:35:17 2010. Trust Me I agree with edwards on that, They would put all the R62A's on the (2) plus the (2) would still have some R142's. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Apr 26 16:56:27 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Edwards! on Mon Apr 26 06:10:06 2010. Indeed I was ... can't put down computer code until it compiles or you lose your place. :( |
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Posted by Randyo on Mon Apr 26 17:19:04 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Grand Concourse on Mon Apr 26 03:10:56 2010. But Bkln Br could be similar. |
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Posted by Randyo on Mon Apr 26 17:19:40 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Apr 26 11:31:44 2010. Either that or upgraded to FIND. |
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Posted by Randyo on Mon Apr 26 17:20:27 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by G1Ravage on Mon Apr 26 02:32:07 2010. Actually, that has been a problem, at BB. |
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Posted by Randyo on Mon Apr 26 17:22:56 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by The Flxible Neofan on Mon Apr 26 13:10:20 2010. That may have gone the way of many "missing" contract numbers like the R-39 which was supposed to have been a dedicated fleet of cars for the Myrtle and 3 Av els. |
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Posted by Randyo on Mon Apr 26 17:28:44 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Apr 26 11:21:18 2010. It's kind of strange that the R-1 through 9s were built by several different manufacturers yet were fully compatible with each other. The same was true of most of the SMEE cars which were specified in the various contracts to be fully compatible with each other and in the case of the IRT were. All the contract has to specify is that regardless of who make the equipment all the NTTs MUST absolutely and unquestioningly be fully compatible under severe penalties and not "or else" but "NO ELSE!!!!!". |
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Posted by fisk ave jim on Mon Apr 26 18:39:11 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Randyo on Mon Apr 26 17:28:44 2010. Like what the LIRR did back in the early 60's.They insisted that the new Pullman Standard MP75's delivered for worlds fair service be able to run with MP54's built in the 20's. Kinda like having the Lo-V' being able to mate with with the redbirds. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Apr 26 19:05:29 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Randyo on Mon Apr 26 17:28:44 2010. Yep ... a "full specification" which has repeatedly been upheld in the courts as "non-discriminatory." |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Mon Apr 26 20:34:42 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Grand Concourse on Sun Apr 25 22:21:46 2010. Yep, 1906/7/8/10 will probably remain singles for the S (with possibly 06 and 10 getting full-width cabs. |
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Posted by Neil Feldman on Mon Apr 26 21:08:35 2010, in response to R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Gold_12th on Sun Apr 25 14:31:24 2010. Yep, looks like Pelham will get their R62A's back in a few years! Curious if the R142A upon compatibility will have the strip maps replaced with FIND? Didn't notice anything on this at all in the above. |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Mon Apr 26 21:11:40 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by FYBklyn1959 on Mon Apr 26 14:35:17 2010. I agree with that. Just tack on a 1 in front of 8001 = 18001. It makes no sense to hold off 100 numbers for a 10-car train that will never run again. |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Mon Apr 26 21:12:42 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by R32_3671 on Mon Apr 26 14:53:10 2010. Well, as i said, I'm not against it, but I don't understand the need to involve the 2. |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Apr 26 21:30:46 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by 9 local on Mon Apr 26 02:12:26 2010. Exactly. It would make absolutely no sense to have R62As on the 2 while having R142s on the 5 because of Flatbush Avenue. |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Apr 26 21:36:46 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Randyo on Sun Apr 25 18:15:51 2010. That's a three-way switch. Why go through all that trouble?It would be a mistake and an operational nightmare if the 7's R62As go to the 2 while keeping R142s on the 5. The 2 and 5 should have the same cars because cars from one line frequently show up on the other. Unless both the 2 and 5 are going to be a mix of 62s and 142s. |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Apr 26 21:39:15 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Sun Apr 25 18:09:06 2010. Why? The East Side IRT wasn't all Redbirds and the West Side IRT had R62As on the 1 and 3 lines and Redbirds on the 2. |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Apr 26 21:40:56 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by R32_3671 on Mon Apr 26 14:53:10 2010. Unnecessary. Leave the 2 out of the switch. Don't make the switch any more complicated or time-consuming than it needs to be. |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Apr 26 21:49:32 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Randyo on Mon Apr 26 01:35:46 2010. Yes, but the 2 switches cars with the 5 all the time to keep service running out Flatbush. It doesn't make sense for the 2 and 5 lines to have different cars. If it's going to be such a problem to run R62As on the 6 - and it shouldn't be because they ran on the 6 for years - then send the R62As to the 4. It doesn't share a southern terminal with another line, unlike the 2 which shares Flatbush Avenue with the 5. |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Apr 26 21:52:53 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Edwards! on Sun Apr 25 22:52:38 2010. Why the 2? Why must the 2 lose its R142s? It doesn't make one bit of sense to do a three-way switch between the 2, 6 and 7 lines and run different types of cars on the 2 and 5 lines which share the same southern terminal. |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Mon Apr 26 22:53:36 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Randyo on Mon Apr 26 17:19:04 2010. Well, I guess we shall see when it comes time to send the R142As to Flushing.To be honest I think it would be nice to see something other than only R142s at Flatbush, but I still think the 2/5 switch is more a reason than the 6's two northern terminals. Just my opinion and I respectfully disagree. |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Mon Apr 26 22:58:25 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Apr 26 11:31:44 2010. As a semi-frequent rider of the 2, I don't bother with the strip maps as I can have a 5 line's train on the 2 and vice versa.That said, the exterior signs are the big deal as a t/o-c/r needs only to push in a program and the train is automatically set for either the 2 or 5 lines vs manually changing all the signs on the train to the 2 or the 5. I'm too young to remember what it must've been like when the 2/5 was redbird only, but that couldn't have been any fun to manually change back all the signs if they needed a train on another line at the last moment. Right now things are pretty flexible, if either line is running behind, they can take whatever train pulls in at Flatbush and put that on the line that needs the service right away. |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Mon Apr 26 23:03:21 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Apr 26 21:49:32 2010. Agreed. If the 6's terminals is going to be that much of a problem then make the 4 all R62As and send the 4's R142/As to the 6. |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Mon Apr 26 23:04:47 2010, in response to Re: R188 order goes to. . ., posted by Neil Feldman on Mon Apr 26 21:08:35 2010. I wouldn't think there would be a need to. Since they are for the 7, I think strip maps would be good enough for the R142As. |
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