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| Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? (909470) | |
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| (909617) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by arnine on Tue Mar 9 12:05:21 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by ClearAspect on Tue Mar 9 11:36:08 2010. Zone fares are fairer cause it is the same rate per mile/1/2 mile, etc and everyone pays that rate. It works in other cities it can work here too but logistically though it may be hard but doable |
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| (909618) | |
Re: Extend the ''One-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Tue Mar 9 12:06:49 2010, in response to Re: Extend the ''One-Fare Zone''?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Mar 9 11:58:32 2010. I'm talking about people who we would compare to two fare zoners... but then again with WMATA you dont get 24/7 service, and when a snowflake touches the ground the WMATA has convulsions... so you do get what you pay for there... and don't forget telescoping subway cars. |
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| (909636) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by Easy on Tue Mar 9 13:05:40 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by arnine on Tue Mar 9 12:05:21 2010. LACMTA secretly wants to do the same thing. The only problem that I have is that jobs in LA (and NYC and lots of places I guess) tend to be in more wealthy areas with working class/poor people farther out. This puts more of a burden on the people that can least afford it. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (909645) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Tue Mar 9 14:30:56 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by ClearAspect on Tue Mar 9 11:09:52 2010. Think about it this way, they also have to deal with the inconvenience of transferring to a bus and an extended commute because of that. |
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| (909647) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Tue Mar 9 14:46:58 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Tue Mar 9 10:33:07 2010. You can also look at it as Co-op City (and Starrett City as well) opened well before MetroCards were developed, and for over 20 years, those places were "2 fare zones". And nobody put a gun to these peoples' heads and forced them to move there, they were obviously willing to pay the 2 fares to get to Manhattan or wherever. You can say that outrageous NYC rents forced them to move there. |
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| (909649) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Mar 9 14:53:01 2010, in response to Bring Back the "Two-Fare Zone"?, posted by Mitch45 on Mon Mar 8 22:08:04 2010. Not only would it help revenue, but it would also reduce severe overcrowding on buses. |
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| (909654) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Mar 9 15:15:47 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Tue Mar 9 10:28:02 2010. True, but the economics these days are quite different from back then, as well as the fares. Also, you didn't have all those nickel and dime taxes on the bottom layer of the economic woodpile as exists today in the city. And, at least in the Bronx, there were paper transfers to offset some of that back then. |
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| (909666) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Tue Mar 9 15:49:23 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Mar 9 15:15:47 2010. If you think about it though, the MTA fare has kept up with inflation, never really exceeding but staying nearly level. So it's not really a fare hike but just an adjustment for inflation. |
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| (909670) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 9 15:56:09 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Mar 9 11:57:58 2010. An iPod Touch. |
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| (909677) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Mar 9 16:37:23 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by ClearAspect on Tue Mar 9 15:49:23 2010. Thank you! Excellent post! |
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| (909678) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Tue Mar 9 16:38:46 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by ClearAspect on Tue Mar 9 11:42:10 2010. I have. A Bus-Subway-Bus trip is counted as two fares. And school during the day, and a nighttime activity most nights can add to the ride count.I keep track of my rides using the Metro˘ost iPhone app, and it says that the unlimited is the best choice for me, based on my ridership patterns. |
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| (909697) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Mar 9 17:11:15 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by ClearAspect on Tue Mar 9 15:49:23 2010. Yeah, no argument. Just thought I'd say my piece and move along. :) |
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| (909705) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 9 17:31:30 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by R36 #9346 on Tue Mar 9 11:53:15 2010. There is no bus to subway transfer if you pay in coins and never was. |
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| (909707) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 9 17:37:30 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Mar 9 14:53:01 2010. Ridiculous. It should have been done 20 years earlier. Pwople fought for it longer. It was one of the best things the MTA ever did and you want to reverse it. A type of zone fare would be fairer than eliminating free transfers because that is at least based on some sort of logic. If you a have a subway near you or not is not based on logic but accident. If all subways ran a certain distance from the center and beyond that distance a bus was required, then it would make sense, but such is clearly not the case.If it were reversed, it would have far reaching implications. There used to be a big difference in real estate values if you were in a one fare or two fare zone. That difference greatly narrowed when free transfers were instituted, although there still is some difference if you can walk to a subway or need a bus to access a subway. |
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| (909770) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Tue Mar 9 19:43:49 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by ClearAspect on Tue Mar 9 11:42:10 2010. Bear in mind that the average is about 71.5 trips. Seeing as you start winning at 46, you would expect quite a lot of people to be making over 100 trips on 30-day unlimiteds. |
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| (909773) | |
Re: Extend the ''One-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Tue Mar 9 19:46:30 2010, in response to Re: Extend the ''One-Fare Zone''?, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Tue Mar 9 11:26:59 2010. No. If anything, the rides are cheaper to provide in New York because the lines are busy all day and night. Boondocksville Transit, which runs five buses that are only ever used at peak times, will need to charge higher fares if you're charging different fares per line. In practice, a lot of stuff evens out. |
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| (909782) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by TheGreatOne2k9 on Tue Mar 9 20:08:58 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 9 17:31:30 2010. B42 - L train (free connecting transfer) all someone needs to do is connect to the B42 with a bus transfer and they can ride the subway for free. |
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| (909786) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 9 20:24:51 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by TheGreatOne2k9 on Tue Mar 9 20:08:58 2010. You know what I meant. I wasn't talking about that. And you don't need a bus transfer for that. The bus is within the paid zone. |
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| (909787) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Tue Mar 9 20:27:39 2010, in response to Bring Back the "Two-Fare Zone"?, posted by Mitch45 on Mon Mar 8 22:08:04 2010. "Would it help the MTA if the two-fare zone was brought back, ie, if the free train-bus transfers were eliminated?"That would result in the laying off of of hundreds of bus drivers as many in two fare zones would drive to the train, take more costly to operate express buses and lower mta property tax revenue as the it would once again depress housing values The only thing that would help the mta is to run the system as a well oiled business that it pretends to be. |
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| (909806) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Tue Mar 9 21:02:59 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 9 17:37:30 2010. "There used to be a big difference in real estate values if you were in a one fare or two fare zone. That difference greatly narrowed when free transfers were instituted"The increased real estate prices benefits the MTA and it's union workers. The free transfer increased bus usage. Without it bus ridership will drop and that means less bus service. The B2 for instance used to be a faster rider prior to the free transfer. Many people within a ten min walk just walked to the train or had a family member drop them off. Cutting back the waste in bus operations and improving schedules though gps and reducing dwell time through contact less fare payment is the way to go along with automated bus lane and bus stop enforcement using bus mounted camera's is the way to go |
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| (909845) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Tue Mar 9 23:21:52 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by ClearAspect on Tue Mar 9 15:49:23 2010. Totally agreed. People who thinks it is a fare hike forget that prices and wages [give or take] have all gone up as well. If the MTA didn't keep up with the inflation, they'd be in worse shape. |
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| (909850) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 10 00:00:59 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by Fytton on Tue Mar 9 04:07:07 2010. Good post. |
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| (909852) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 10 00:03:11 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by Easy on Tue Mar 9 13:05:40 2010. I don't have a problem with that. |
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| (909854) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 10 00:18:46 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Tue Mar 9 09:42:08 2010. Oh please, not another bureaucratic discounted transit scheme. The MTA's job is to run a transit system, not a welfare system. If some people's incomes are believed by society to be too low to meet essential costs of living, then society should address the incomes once, rather than each cost of living individually. And if they choose to go and spend it all on drugs, that's their problem.IAWTP! |
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| (909860) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by B1bus on Wed Mar 10 00:55:00 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by ClearAspect on Tue Mar 9 04:36:00 2010. Do you really want to make it like the MBTA? |
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| (909862) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by B1bus on Wed Mar 10 00:57:02 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by Dan on Tue Mar 9 09:36:47 2010. Some cities DO subsidize poorer people.I also think we should have a "youth" fare the same discount afforded to s/c and h/c people. |
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| (909865) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by B1bus on Wed Mar 10 00:58:35 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Tue Mar 9 09:42:08 2010. IAWTP. I have gotten a roommate to help pay the rent and expenses here. Alot of people have had to as well these past few years. |
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| (909868) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 10 01:01:07 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by B1bus on Wed Mar 10 00:57:02 2010. Yes, there should be a fare for junior citizens, BUT I'd rather that all class-based fare discounts be abolished. |
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| (909870) | |
You NEED the bus 2 bus transfers. |
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Posted by B1bus on Wed Mar 10 01:05:13 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by R36 #9346 on Tue Mar 9 11:53:15 2010. You cannot buy a metrocard (outside the booths ) at very FEW locations. You cannot expect everyone to have a metrocard in the outlying areas, and airports. You NEED that transfer.What someone has to do it get these SENIORS to get a metrocard. I see about more than half still throwing change in the box and still asking for return trip tickets. THAT will change when they realize there will be alot less clerks to let them in later this year. |
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| (909894) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by Fytton on Wed Mar 10 05:18:29 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by ClearAspect on Tue Mar 9 15:49:23 2010. 'The MTA fare has kept up with inflation, never really exceeding but staying nearly level. So it's not really a fare hike but just an adjustment for inflation.'In fact. allowing for the introduction of unlimiteds, the NYCT fare per ride has probably been kept below inflation. But that doesn't justify an doubling of fares for one arbitrary part of the population while another part gets no increase. |
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| (909942) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Mar 10 09:21:58 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by brightonr68 on Tue Mar 9 21:02:59 2010. I agree.Also, if the MTA is reluctant to increase bus service due to increasaes in ridership due to the free transfers, then they shouldn't be operating the system and someone else should do it. |
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| (909944) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by RailBus63 on Wed Mar 10 09:34:36 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by Dan on Tue Mar 9 09:36:47 2010. How would you determine who "could afford to pay more?"Simple - you increase the fares up to the proper level, then subsidize passes for those with incomes below a certain level. |
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| (909951) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by RailBus63 on Wed Mar 10 09:47:32 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Tue Mar 9 09:42:08 2010. Oh please, not another bureaucratic discounted transit scheme. The MTA's job is to run a transit system, not a welfare system.But the MTA (and just about every other North American transit system) is already running a welfare system – they are pricing all rides according to the ability of their lowest-income clients to pay. Let’s take that out of the equation. |
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| (909968) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Wed Mar 10 10:49:03 2010, in response to Bring Back the "Two-Fare Zone"?, posted by Mitch45 on Mon Mar 8 22:08:04 2010. With the overall effect of reducing ridership. |
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| (909969) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Wed Mar 10 10:52:48 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Mar 9 03:50:53 2010. Yep, I chose to live where I live because I can actually afford to live there. I can't afford many other areas of the city. The closer you want to be to transit, the higher your home payment. Further out, your home payment is less, but your transportation costs may be higher. |
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| (909976) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by Michael549 on Wed Mar 10 11:20:52 2010, in response to Bring Back the "Two-Fare Zone"?, posted by Mitch45 on Mon Mar 8 22:08:04 2010. Sometimes folks forget another function of public transit - to reduce the need for and usage of cars that pollute the urban environment. The fare pricing scheme can - should - would take into account not only the needs of those who only make 2 trips a day, but the needs of those who take several trips a day, and during the week, and not always to "downtown". School, work, entertainment and shopping trips are just some of the major kinds of trips the folk make. By wanting to bring back the two-fare zone, these kinds of trips are impacted in a negative way.Back in the day, I remember counting tokens as if they were gold bricks. Where plenty of trips were not taken because of the cost of another token. Or I would walk to many places just to save a token, but now that I'm older not so much. The fare structure now - unlimited rides and transfers - allows plenty of folks to make trips that they otherwise would not, or would have to arrange driving for. The basic point - public transit has a variety of goals, not a single goal to achieve. Mike |
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| (909986) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Wed Mar 10 11:43:36 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 10 00:03:11 2010. 
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| (909987) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Wed Mar 10 11:45:07 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by ClearAspect on Tue Mar 9 04:36:00 2010. You've just taken a simple to understand fare/pass structure and made it unintelligible to the average transit user. |
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| (909988) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Wed Mar 10 11:46:02 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Tue Mar 9 10:33:07 2010. And for most of the early part of the existence of a lot of those developments, "The subway is coming soon!" |
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| (909989) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Wed Mar 10 11:46:13 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by N6 Limited on Tue Mar 9 14:46:58 2010. THIS. |
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| (909991) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Wed Mar 10 11:52:27 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by LA Scott on Tue Mar 9 09:46:42 2010. Either everyplace is a two-fare zone to get to the CBD (Manhattan s/o 59th street, essentially, or one city, one fare. Guess which makes the most sense? Anything else is bias based on the economics of NYC.The majority of living-wage jobs are located in Manhattan. The majority of affordable housing stock are located some distance from direct mass-transit links to the area with the best jobs. |
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| (909992) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Wed Mar 10 11:54:10 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by TheGreatOne2k9 on Tue Mar 9 20:08:58 2010. That is the one exception in all of NYC. |
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| (909998) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Wed Mar 10 12:07:34 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Wed Mar 10 11:46:02 2010. Is that the same promise that attracted the hordes of people who moved to Staten Island over the years? :-) |
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| (910002) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Mar 10 12:12:53 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Wed Mar 10 12:07:34 2010. Hordes . . . ? |
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| (910007) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Wed Mar 10 12:28:29 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Wed Mar 10 12:07:34 2010. Prior to the late 50s, I'd say yes. But the later population explosion was driven almost entirely by white flight. |
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| (910008) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Wed Mar 10 12:33:11 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Mar 10 12:12:53 2010. Or should I say: throngs, mobs, crush, truck loads... |
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| (910009) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Mar 10 12:56:10 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Wed Mar 10 12:33:11 2010. Huddled masses too? |
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| (910018) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by newlots#2 on Wed Mar 10 13:54:09 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Mar 10 12:56:10 2010. Fares are low so that businesses in the CBD can take advantage of cheap labor from the outer cheaper neighborhoods. Unless you're talking Jamaica Estates, or Bayside, people don't move to areas with no subway service for any other reason than economics.If they had instituted the millionaires tax and would really collect taxes owed by the corporations in the CBD (ie no more tax incentives or corporate welfare) NY's coffers would be brimming over and there'd be no problem. You're trying to penalize the wrong people here. |
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| (911278) | |
Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''? |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Sat Mar 13 20:51:45 2010, in response to Re: Bring Back the ''Two-Fare Zone''?, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Tue Mar 9 09:42:08 2010. France used to give discounts of all sorts if you had four children or more, like half-fare for métro. I don't know if it's still the case now that they have child fare on the métro. |
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