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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Nov 18 01:03:52 2009, in response to Questions from the eager & curious, posted by Mike W. on Wed Nov 18 00:49:34 2009. 1) Google is your friend2) 60MPH +/- (I've clocked it at about 62 MPH using GPS) ... it goes faster because PATH allows it to go faster. NYCT subway trains could go faster too if they were allowed to... |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Wed Nov 18 01:14:12 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Nov 18 01:03:52 2009. This is a discussion board, thus we discuss transit issues and topics. "Google is your friend" is a very stupid thing to tell someone who wants to have discussions about transit issues.Oh I forget, you love cars thus you really don't want to discuss transit issues. TAKE PRIDE |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (860282) | |
Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Nov 18 01:57:22 2009, in response to Questions from the eager & curious, posted by Mike W. on Wed Nov 18 00:49:34 2009. Hopefully, some more serious replies will ensue as well as likely corrections of what I'll offer just so you don't think everyone here is a hoser. :)1) SMEE is an automatic type of braking used in older cars about to vanish entirely from the system. There are arguments as to the proper terminology of what SMEE exactly means. Back in the 1970's when I worked for the Transit Authority, the much older cars were of the AMUE type which meant that in order to operate the brakes, you had to feed air into the brake cylinders and then physically lap (or hold) the pressure much as is done on locomotives and freight trains of antiquity. The SMEE category describes "self-lapping brakes" wherein you no longer had to physically lap or hold the pressure. SMEE braking is more like those on an automobile where the amount of handle movement determines the brake pressure applied and automatically adjusts as you move the handle. Oversimplification to be sure, but I think it gets the point across to you. 2) PATH is a "real railroad" by legal definition and their trains operate under locomotive engineers. As a result, there's no artificial restriction on the speed as there is in the subways and because of the long straight stretch, they can get up slightly about 60 MPH on that "dash" in the hands of their engineers. It's about as fast as it legally gets. :) 3) I started as a conductor, so did the door work as well. Conductors have a key which must be inserted into the panel at each stop to enable the pushbuttons which operate the doors. Back in my day, we operated the doors from outside the cars between them but that's irrelevant today. So the procedure at station stops is to announce, insert and turn the key once the train has stopped and the conductor has confirmed by observation of a wooden "zebra stripe board" which should appear outside their cab window that the train has actually stopped where it's supposed to. Recently, they've added an extra procedure that requires the conductor to point AT said board (management watches for this and woe be to those who fail to point) with a particular finger. Once this has been satisfied, the conductor can then insert and turn the key to enable the door switches and drop the window so that they can observe the platform while pushing the buttons to open the doors. A certain amount of time must pass at which time they then push the CLOSE buttons and attempt to close the doors. Once the doors are closed and locked, they then remove the key which passes "doors closed indication" to the motorperson up front who can then move the train. Conductors are also required to observe the platform as the train departs for three car lengths of travel before they can close their cab window and go about their business before the next stop. As to the map weirdnesses, I'll leave that to the riders since I'm sure they'll bitch about it. (grin) |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by straphanger9 on Wed Nov 18 02:34:08 2009, in response to Questions from the eager & curious, posted by Mike W. on Wed Nov 18 00:49:34 2009. Eh, I'll take the first one ("what is SMEE"). So here is probably "more than you ever wanted to know" :DSMEE = How it works: SMEE is pretty straightforward. You have two trainline air pipes, all that means is they run the length of the train. The two pipes are: A straight air pipe, and a brake pipe. Think of the straight air pipe as the service brake (the brake used in regular operations, such as stopping the train at a station, or slowing down before a curve). Think of the brake pipe as the emergency brake (the brake used when the emergency brake cord is pulled, a train goes through a red signal, or at the end of the line when the train is about to change ends and go back the other way - a loud "chow" can be heard when the emergency brake applies and the train stops cold). So here's how it works below. I will try to keep this simple so you can (try to) follow it. If others want to chime in after me with details of the various magnet valves, slack adjusters, feed valves, variable load valves, spotting wire, the old INSHOT, etc. have at it, but this will be the simple form. 1-The brake pipe As mentioned above, the brake pipe is related to the emergency brake. OK, so assume there is no air in the brake system, and this is the "default condition" (which would be the case when taking a train out of the yard). In order to get the train ready, one of the things that must be done is to charge the train's air brakes. Once compressor air is added to the car, but before the system is charged, the brake shoes will automatically apply. This is because in order to take his brake handle out, the last guy had to put the train into emergency, and before the brakes are charged, the train is still in emergency. So with compressor air added in emergency, the brake cylinders will have air in them keeping the brake shoes pressed against the wheels and preventing the car from moving. However, the brake pipe has no air in it. It is not charged. So when there is enough air from the compressor, the train operator charges the brakes. This brings them out of emergency. As a result, the brake pipe will charge to 110 pounds (130 pounds on R44 equipment). Now the brake pipe acts as a fail safe. If the pressure gets too low in the brake pipe, or drops too rapidly, the train will go right back into emergency, with no brake pipe air, and lots of brake cylinder pressure to apply the brake shoes to the wheel, stop the train, and keep it from moving further. Some ways this can happen: (1)Someone pulls the emergency brake. (2)The train operator, who has to keep a Deadman's feature of his controller satisfied, has something happen to him where he does not do this, so the train stops for safety assuming he is no longer at the controls or coherent at the controls. (3)The train runs through a red signal and is tripped. (4)The Brake pipe ruptures. (5)The train operator puts the train into emergency using the brake handle (something he'd want to do when changing ends at a terminal, for example, so he can take his brake handle out) So as mentioned, the brake pipe is meant to hold that pressure (110 or 130 lbs) until the train is intended to go into emergency again. Any rapid decrease in brake pipe pressure, such as would be caused by the 5 ways above, will cause the train to go into emergency and stop immediately, by venting all the air in the brake pipe and adding air to the brake cylinder and holding it there to stop the train immediately. 2-The straight air pipe If the brake pipe is the emergency brake, then the straight air pipe is the "service brake" aka the brake you feel when a station stop is made. When the train operator goes to make a stop, this pipe ultimately feeds air into the brake cylinders. Same as above, when the air pressure increases, the brake cylinders cause the brake shoes to be applied to the wheels and stop the train. So when running a train, obviously you don't want the brakes applied when moving, so "normal" straight air pipe pressure is zero (release) when moving between stations. Full service aka "maximum" straight air pipe pressure is 80 pounds, which is the most air a T/O can pull using the brake handle without going into emergency. During operation, air from the main reservoir (the big tank of air that the compressor fills), will move into the straight air pipe, and on down into the cylinders to stop the train. The main reservoir air is constantly refilled by the compressor, which shuts on and off like a home heating system when the pressure in the main res gets too low or high. The brake system is pretty responsive, so a train operator can pull as much or as little brake as he wants to make a stop, up to the full service amount. So that's all well and good for a brake system, but a lot of stopping and starting in the subway means those brake shoes would take a lot of wear and tear. But then of course there's... 3-Dynamic Braking A DC subway motor like on a SMEE car is basically a big electromagnet, which means that, like a bisexual, "it goes both ways." Which means when you put power to it, it spins (acts as a motor). However, when you spin it, it generates electricity (acts as a generator). So the car is accelerating, electricity goes to the motor, motor starts spinning and we're on the move. All dynamics are is the opposite. The car wants to slow down now, and it's going fast enough that dynamics are active. The T/O moving the brake handle to service brake energizes a dynamic brake wire, which connects the already spinning motor to resistance grids, and therefore places an "electrical load" on them. Now the motor acts as a generator and the spinning of the wheels creates electricity through the motor...that electricity needs somewhere to go, so it goes to the grids, which heat up, and the energy is used up and goes away. And of course, that slows the train down because there is now "drag" on the motors. But meanwhile a lot of brake shoe wear and tear is saved through the dynamics. Electrically, the train is capable of detecting the amount of electrical current created by dynamic braking (since the faster the train is going the higher this will be), and if that is not enough (ie the train is going slowly), the air brakes are added into the equation to help stop the train. (Note: this is also why a car with dead motors will apply air brakes at higher speeds - because dynamics are doing nothing). Electrically, the train is also capable of detecting how much brake was requested, so it knows how much of the resistor "load" to place on the motors to get the desired stopping rate. And if it doesn't get that (detected by the current created by the motor acting as a generator), then in come the air brakes to help slow the train down some more. The dynamic brake works seamlessly with the service brake to make stops. So a train operator pulls a train into a station at 30MPH, grabs brake. The dynamics apply and start slowing the train down. Then as he gets under 10MPH and further down, the air brakes will start to apply to make the final stop while the dynamics naturally fade. Dynamics do not work with the emergency brake however. Emergency stops are all air, no dynamics. And that's the basics of SMEE. What it means SMEE was a big upgrade in terms of being easier to use over older systems, because like a car brake, "the more brake you took, the faster you stopped." Older systems had an "add, subtract, or do nothing" system (with a different pipe layout) where the motorman controlled the flow of air into the brake cylinders by increasing the amount (applying brake), decreasing the amount (releasing brake), or leaving the air amount the same (lapping brake)...alternating between these positions as needed to stop the train. SMEE improved on that in making brake operations simpler. This is known as the "Self Lapping" feature of SMEE. Also, unlike older AMUE type systems (that's for another day), SMEE applied the brakes electrically throughout the whole train at the same time. AMUE systems could do something similar, but it required a break plug to be inserted to do it. SMEE, it was basically standard assuming the train had been set up for service properly. So hopefully that's enough to answer your first question :D |
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SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by straphanger9 on Wed Nov 18 02:44:54 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by straphanger9 on Wed Nov 18 02:34:08 2009. Eh, I'll take the first one ("what is SMEE"). So here is probably "more than you ever wanted to know" :DSMEE = How it works: SMEE is pretty straightforward. You have two trainline air pipes, all that means is they run the length of the train. The two pipes are: A straight air pipe, and a brake pipe. Think of the straight air pipe as the service brake (the brake used in regular operations, such as stopping the train at a station, or slowing down before a curve). Think of the brake pipe as the emergency brake (the brake used when the emergency brake cord is pulled, a train goes through a red signal, or at the end of the line when the train is about to change ends and go back the other way - a loud "chow" can be heard when the emergency brake applies and the train stops cold). So here's how it works below. I will try to keep this simple so you can (try to) follow it. If others want to chime in after me with details of the various magnet valves, slack adjusters, feed valves, variable load valves, spotting wire, the old INSHOT, etc. have at it, but this will be the simple form. 1-The brake pipe As mentioned above, the brake pipe is related to the emergency brake. OK, so assume there is no air in the brake system, and this is the "default condition" (which would be the case when taking a train out of the yard). In order to get the train ready, one of the things that must be done is to charge the train's air brakes. Once compressor air is added to the car, but before the system is charged, the brake shoes will automatically apply. This is because in order to take his brake handle out, the last guy had to put the train into emergency, and before the brakes are charged, the train is still in emergency. So with compressor air added in emergency, the brake cylinders will have air in them keeping the brake shoes pressed against the wheels and preventing the car from moving. However, the brake pipe has no air in it. It is not charged. So when there is enough air from the compressor, the train operator charges the brakes. This brings them out of emergency. As a result, the brake pipe will charge to 110 pounds (130 pounds on R44 equipment). Now the brake pipe acts as a fail safe. If the pressure gets too low in the brake pipe, or drops too rapidly, the train will go right back into emergency, with no brake pipe air, and lots of brake cylinder pressure to apply the brake shoes to the wheel, stop the train, and keep it from moving further. Some ways this can happen: (1)Someone pulls the emergency brake. (2)The train operator, who has to keep a Deadman's feature of his controller satisfied, has something happen to him where he does not do this, so the train stops for safety assuming he is no longer at the controls or coherent at the controls. (3)The train runs through a red signal and is tripped. (4)The Brake pipe ruptures. (5)The train operator puts the train into emergency using the brake handle (something he'd want to do when changing ends at a terminal, for example, so he can take his brake handle out) So as mentioned, the brake pipe is meant to hold that pressure (110 or 130 lbs) until the train is intended to go into emergency again. Any rapid decrease in brake pipe pressure, such as would be caused by the 5 ways above, will cause the train to go into emergency and stop immediately, by venting all the air in the brake pipe and adding air to the brake cylinder and holding it there to stop the train immediately. 2-The straight air pipe If the brake pipe is the emergency brake, then the straight air pipe is the "service brake" aka the brake you feel when a station stop is made. When the train operator goes to make a stop, this pipe ultimately feeds air into the brake cylinders. Same as above, when the air pressure increases, the brake cylinders cause the brake shoes to be applied to the wheels and stop the train. So when running a train, obviously you don't want the brakes applied when moving, so "normal" straight air pipe pressure is zero (release) when moving between stations. Full service aka "maximum" straight air pipe pressure is 80 pounds, which is the most air a T/O can pull using the brake handle without going into emergency. During operation, air from the main reservoir (the big tank of air that the compressor fills), will move into the straight air pipe, and on down into the cylinders to stop the train. The main reservoir air is constantly refilled by the compressor, which shuts on and off like a home heating system when the pressure in the main res gets too low or high. The brake system is pretty responsive, so a train operator can pull as much or as little brake as he wants to make a stop, up to the full service amount. So that's all well and good for a brake system, but a lot of stopping and starting in the subway means those brake shoes would take a lot of wear and tear. But then of course there's... 3-Dynamic Braking A DC subway motor like on a SMEE car is basically a big electromagnet, which means that, like a bisexual, "it goes both ways." Which means when you put power to it, it spins (acts as a motor). However, when you spin it, it generates electricity (acts as a generator). So the car is accelerating, electricity goes to the motor, motor starts spinning and we're on the move. All dynamics are is the opposite. The car wants to slow down now, and it's going fast enough that dynamics are active. The T/O moving the brake handle to service brake energizes a dynamic brake wire, which connects the already spinning motor to resistance grids, and therefore places an "electrical load" on them. Now the motor acts as a generator and the spinning of the wheels creates electricity through the motor...that electricity needs somewhere to go, so it goes to the grids, which heat up, and the energy is used up and goes away. And of course, that slows the train down because there is now "drag" on the motors. But meanwhile a lot of brake shoe wear and tear is saved through the dynamics. Electrically, the train is capable of detecting the amount of electrical current created by dynamic braking (since the faster the train is going the higher this will be), and if that is not enough (ie the train is going slowly), the air brakes are added into the equation to help stop the train. (Note: this is also why a car with dead motors will apply air brakes at higher speeds - because dynamics are doing nothing). Electrically, the train is also capable of detecting how much brake was requested, so it knows how much of the resistor "load" to place on the motors to get the desired stopping rate. And if it doesn't get that (detected by the current created by the motor acting as a generator), then in come the air brakes to help slow the train down some more. The dynamic brake works seamlessly with the service brake to make stops. So a train operator pulls a train into a station at 30MPH, grabs brake. The dynamics apply and start slowing the train down. Then as he gets under 10MPH and further down, the air brakes will start to apply to make the final stop while the dynamics naturally fade. Dynamics do not work with the emergency brake however. Emergency stops are all air, no dynamics. And that's the basics of SMEE. What it means SMEE was a big upgrade in terms of being easier to use over older systems, because like a car brake, "the more brake you took, the faster you stopped." Older systems had an "add, subtract, or do nothing" system (with a different pipe layout) where the motorman controlled the flow of air into the brake cylinders by increasing the amount (applying brake), decreasing the amount (releasing brake), or leaving the air amount the same (lapping brake)...alternating between these positions as needed to stop the train. SMEE improved on that in making brake operations simpler. This is known as the "Self Lapping" feature of SMEE. Also, unlike older AMUE type systems (that's for another day), SMEE applied the brakes electrically throughout the whole train at the same time. AMUE systems could do something similar, but it required a break plug to be inserted to do it. SMEE, it was basically standard assuming the train had been set up for service properly. So hopefully that's enough to answer your first question :D |
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| (860289) | |
SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by straphanger9 on Wed Nov 18 02:45:26 2009, in response to Questions from the eager & curious, posted by Mike W. on Wed Nov 18 00:49:34 2009. Eh, I'll take the first one ("what is SMEE"). So here is probably "more than you ever wanted to know" :DSMEE = How it works: SMEE is pretty straightforward. You have two trainline air pipes, all that means is they run the length of the train. The two pipes are: A straight air pipe, and a brake pipe. Think of the straight air pipe as the service brake (the brake used in regular operations, such as stopping the train at a station, or slowing down before a curve). Think of the brake pipe as the emergency brake (the brake used when the emergency brake cord is pulled, a train goes through a red signal, or at the end of the line when the train is about to change ends and go back the other way - a loud "chow" can be heard when the emergency brake applies and the train stops cold). So here's how it works below. I will try to keep this simple so you can (try to) follow it. If others want to chime in after me with details of the various magnet valves, slack adjusters, feed valves, variable load valves, spotting wire, the old INSHOT, etc. have at it, but this will be the simple form. 1-The brake pipe As mentioned above, the brake pipe is related to the emergency brake. OK, so assume there is no air in the brake system, and this is the "default condition" (which would be the case when taking a train out of the yard). In order to get the train ready, one of the things that must be done is to charge the train's air brakes. Once compressor air is added to the car, but before the system is charged, the brake shoes will automatically apply. This is because in order to take his brake handle out, the last guy had to put the train into emergency, and before the brakes are charged, the train is still in emergency. So with compressor air added in emergency, the brake cylinders will have air in them keeping the brake shoes pressed against the wheels and preventing the car from moving. However, the brake pipe has no air in it. It is not charged. So when there is enough air from the compressor, the train operator charges the brakes. This brings them out of emergency. As a result, the brake pipe will charge to 110 pounds (130 pounds on R44 equipment). Now the brake pipe acts as a fail safe. If the pressure gets too low in the brake pipe, or drops too rapidly, the train will go right back into emergency, with no brake pipe air, and lots of brake cylinder pressure to apply the brake shoes to the wheel, stop the train, and keep it from moving further. Some ways this can happen: (1)Someone pulls the emergency brake. (2)The train operator, who has to keep a Deadman's feature of his controller satisfied, has something happen to him where he does not do this, so the train stops for safety assuming he is no longer at the controls or coherent at the controls. (3)The train runs through a red signal and is tripped. (4)The Brake pipe ruptures. (5)The train operator puts the train into emergency using the brake handle (something he'd want to do when changing ends at a terminal, for example, so he can take his brake handle out) So as mentioned, the brake pipe is meant to hold that pressure (110 or 130 lbs) until the train is intended to go into emergency again. Any rapid decrease in brake pipe pressure, such as would be caused by the 5 ways above, will cause the train to go into emergency and stop immediately, by venting all the air in the brake pipe and adding air to the brake cylinder and holding it there to stop the train immediately. 2-The straight air pipe If the brake pipe is the emergency brake, then the straight air pipe is the "service brake" aka the brake you feel when a station stop is made. When the train operator goes to make a stop, this pipe ultimately feeds air into the brake cylinders. Same as above, when the air pressure increases, the brake cylinders cause the brake shoes to be applied to the wheels and stop the train. So when running a train, obviously you don't want the brakes applied when moving, so "normal" straight air pipe pressure is zero (release) when moving between stations. Full service aka "maximum" straight air pipe pressure is 80 pounds, which is the most air a T/O can pull using the brake handle without going into emergency. During operation, air from the main reservoir (the big tank of air that the compressor fills), will move into the straight air pipe, and on down into the cylinders to stop the train. The main reservoir air is constantly refilled by the compressor, which shuts on and off like a home heating system when the pressure in the main res gets too low or high. The brake system is pretty responsive, so a train operator can pull as much or as little brake as he wants to make a stop, up to the full service amount. So that's all well and good for a brake system, but a lot of stopping and starting in the subway means those brake shoes would take a lot of wear and tear. But then of course there's... 3-Dynamic Braking A DC subway motor like on a SMEE car is basically a big electromagnet, which means that, like a bisexual, "it goes both ways." Which means when you put power to it, it spins (acts as a motor). However, when you spin it, it generates electricity (acts as a generator). So the car is accelerating, electricity goes to the motor, motor starts spinning and we're on the move. All dynamics are is the opposite. The car wants to slow down now, and it's going fast enough that dynamics are active. The T/O moving the brake handle to service brake energizes a dynamic brake wire, which connects the already spinning motor to resistance grids, and therefore places an "electrical load" on them. Now the motor acts as a generator and the spinning of the wheels creates electricity through the motor...that electricity needs somewhere to go, so it goes to the grids, which heat up, and the energy is used up and goes away. And of course, that slows the train down because there is now "drag" on the motors. But meanwhile a lot of brake shoe wear and tear is saved through the dynamics. Electrically, the train is capable of detecting the amount of electrical current created by dynamic braking (since the faster the train is going the higher this will be), and if that is not enough (ie the train is going slowly), the air brakes are added into the equation to help stop the train. (Note: this is also why a car with dead motors will apply air brakes at higher speeds - because dynamics are doing nothing). Electrically, the train is also capable of detecting how much brake was requested, so it knows how much of the resistor "load" to place on the motors to get the desired stopping rate. And if it doesn't get that (detected by the current created by the motor acting as a generator), then in come the air brakes to help slow the train down some more. The dynamic brake works seamlessly with the service brake to make stops. So a train operator pulls a train into a station at 30MPH, grabs brake. The dynamics apply and start slowing the train down. Then as he gets under 10MPH and further down, the air brakes will start to apply to make the final stop while the dynamics naturally fade. Dynamics do not work with the emergency brake however. Emergency stops are all air, no dynamics. And that's the basics of SMEE. What it means SMEE was a big upgrade in terms of being easier to use over older systems, because like a car brake, "the more brake you took, the faster you stopped." Older systems had an "add, subtract, or do nothing" system (with a different pipe layout) where the motorman controlled the flow of air into the brake cylinders by increasing the amount (applying brake), decreasing the amount (releasing brake), or leaving the air amount the same (lapping brake)...alternating between these positions as needed to stop the train. SMEE improved on that in making brake operations simpler. This is known as the "Self Lapping" feature of SMEE. Also, unlike older AMUE type systems (that's for another day), SMEE applied the brakes electrically throughout the whole train at the same time. AMUE systems could do something similar, but it required a break plug to be inserted to do it. SMEE, it was basically standard assuming the train had been set up for service properly. So hopefully that's enough to answer your first question :D |
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| (860291) | |
Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by MGL on Wed Nov 18 03:10:16 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by straphanger9 on Wed Nov 18 02:34:08 2009. Excellent, straight forward description."(5)The train operator puts the train into emergency using the brake handle (something he'd want to do when changing ends at a terminal, for example, so he can take his brake handle out)" A properly operating Train Operator would never prform that procedure as you described. I can't help myself, I'll let you clean it up if you'd like. Michael |
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| (860293) | |
Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by straphanger9 on Wed Nov 18 03:19:52 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by MGL on Wed Nov 18 03:10:16 2009. True. Typically he'd let the deadman up at a terminal first to put the train BIE, but he'd still have to move his handle into the "emergency range" to get to handle off. I'm assuming that was what you were speaking of? |
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| (860294) | |
Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by MGL on Wed Nov 18 03:37:18 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by straphanger9 on Wed Nov 18 03:19:52 2009. Yes, by rule the T/O must test the dead man feature (pilot valve) at all turn back locations.Michael |
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| (860295) | |
Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Nov 18 04:00:31 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by MGL on Wed Nov 18 03:37:18 2009. I always got a giggle out of the name for the popper under the spring-loaded rod inside the stand, "PILOT valve." But they called us motormen instead of "pilot" ... when the movie "Men in Black II" came out, I was truly tickled by the character who popped out the cab door to bust heads, "***Captain*** Larry Bridgewater." Heh. Me wanted some! :) |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by The Queen on Wed Nov 18 04:02:38 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Nov 18 01:03:52 2009. What a childish response!Then you see why people want you banned! |
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| (860338) | |
Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Nov 18 07:45:39 2009, in response to Questions from the eager & curious, posted by Mike W. on Wed Nov 18 00:49:34 2009. What is SMEE?Cap'n Hook's first mate, of course . . .  |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Nov 18 08:15:04 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by The Queen on Wed Nov 18 04:02:38 2009. Oh go get it on with rionOne! |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by lrg5784 on Wed Nov 18 08:16:38 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by The Queen on Wed Nov 18 04:02:38 2009. IAWTP. Then again, the guy's brain is the size of a walnut so you really can't blame him. |
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| (860356) | |
Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Nov 18 08:16:43 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Nov 18 01:57:22 2009. Your answer to #2 is not correct. Funny how my answer to #2 is correct and your isn't. Maybe you should spend less time jerking around and more time researching the truth. |
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| (860366) | |
Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Nov 18 08:44:38 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Nov 18 08:16:43 2009. He doesn't do truth . . . not a propagandist's style, you know . . . |
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Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Nov 18 08:47:20 2009, in response to SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious), posted by straphanger9 on Wed Nov 18 02:44:54 2009. This would be a good entry for an encyclopedia. |
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| (860374) | |
Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Wed Nov 18 09:10:48 2009, in response to SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious), posted by straphanger9 on Wed Nov 18 02:44:54 2009. The biggest improvement in SMEE over AMUE is in the SMEE train will remain stationary as long as the compressors are running. The R9 does not keep up its brake cylinder pressure in emergency while a crew is troubleshooting or layed up and will begin to roll away when the leak is found and corrected as they charge in release where SMEE charges brake pipe in full service. Lot less skill needed for SMEE where you can fan the brakes almost forever and as long as the main reservoir doesn't fall below 90, you can still stop where that R9 will not have sufficient air being fed from a brake pipe charged from release. Also NYCT uses emergency magnet valves which you can add as #6 for "brake pipe". An Energized EMV creates a trainline electrical signal to force every car of the train to vent a valve located near the emergency cords and making both ends apply in emergency as soon as the initiating car (car getting tripped, package brake unit sensing rapid brake pipe reduction due to hose leak, rupture or cord pulled) energizes the EMV trainline. |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Wed Nov 18 10:12:53 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by lrg5784 on Wed Nov 18 08:16:38 2009. Please do not insult walnuts. |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by rr4567 on Wed Nov 18 10:33:13 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Nov 18 08:15:04 2009. First of all, that WAS a childish response."Google is your friend" is not a response. Secondly, that comment, it was inappropriate. |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Nov 18 10:38:15 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by rr4567 on Wed Nov 18 10:33:13 2009. lolwaaaa waaa waaaa 
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by rr4567 on Wed Nov 18 10:42:26 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Nov 18 10:38:15 2009. You always have to act like a fucking faggot, don't you Weinturd? |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by lrg5784 on Wed Nov 18 10:44:43 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by rr4567 on Wed Nov 18 10:42:26 2009. Good post. |
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Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by straphanger9 on Wed Nov 18 10:45:50 2009, in response to Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious), posted by BLE-NIMX on Wed Nov 18 09:10:48 2009. Good point. I should also add that I didn't really describe the dynamic brake setup correctly in my previous post:The T/O moving the brake handle to service brake energizes a dynamic brake wire, which connects the already spinning motor to resistance grids, and therefore places an "electrical load" on them When the controller is placed into coast, this sets up the dynamic brake by first energizing the spotting wire. Then when the handle is moved to the service brake range, the dynamic brake wire gets energized and you have dynamic braking. The extra step of the spotting wire makes for a smoother and more timely response when brake is pulled. |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Nov 18 10:53:30 2009, in response to Questions from the eager & curious, posted by Mike W. on Wed Nov 18 00:49:34 2009. 1-3: Already answered4: Also Jay Street-Borough Hall is like this. There isn't that much confusion because in both cases they are the only station under that particular street. Jay Street though also has York Street underneath it. 5: I'm not familiar with this particular distinction. 6: To simplify matters, they try as much as possible to keep the "express in this borough and local in that one" distinction, so the B and D are treated as express trains at Grand Street because they are express trains. White means "express trains stop," less than "all trains stop," else all stations on the L would use white dots. 7: The 6 and 7 diamond trains are distinct trains, the D is not, all Ds in one direction run express. The 5 did use a dotted line when it ran rush hours only. The dotted line means "rush hours or off peak hours only." Any train that runs rush hours and then more gets a solid line. |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Nov 18 10:56:26 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by rr4567 on Wed Nov 18 10:42:26 2009. haha, you got pwn3d |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by lrg5784 on Wed Nov 18 11:00:10 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Nov 18 10:56:26 2009. Who got pwned? Last time I checked, you got pwned. So like seriously, don't you have 1. a kid you have to take care of? 2. a crap-ass job at your Stantec facility to make your minimum wage earning? and/or 3. a friggin' life??? |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by rr4567 on Wed Nov 18 11:07:57 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by lrg5784 on Wed Nov 18 11:00:10 2009. 1) LOL He can't even take care of himself3) That is impossible. He's arguing with young people on an Internet "message board" |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by Mr. MTA on Wed Nov 18 11:48:56 2009, in response to Questions from the eager & curious, posted by Mike W. on Wed Nov 18 00:49:34 2009. 7) I don't know why the D is not listed as diamond now but I think it used to be.There is no dotted line on the 5 to Flatbush Avenue because it was recently extended there for full time service instead of just rush hour. |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by rr4567 on Wed Nov 18 11:53:59 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by straphanger9 on Wed Nov 18 02:34:08 2009. Nice explanation.A question about the dynamic braking system. Now I know all Dynamic brake systems need setup time, but what happens if the T/O doesn't give it enough time? Or is it instantaneous? |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by straphanger9 on Wed Nov 18 12:00:18 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by rr4567 on Wed Nov 18 11:53:59 2009. See this post for the answer to that question |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Nov 18 12:12:27 2009, in response to Questions from the eager & curious, posted by Mike W. on Wed Nov 18 00:49:34 2009. 1. This one has already been sufficiently answered by the others.2. Technically, the speed limit on that section (once west of Tonnelle Avenue) is 55 mph, though I won't dispute any claims that trains have gone slightly faster. I once rode a NYC subway train that hit 62, but that was on a relatively short downhill stretch of a river crossing. 3. Many NYC subway trains operate with a two-man crew. A motorman at the front of the train, and a conductor near the train's middle (with two exceptions). It is the conductor's responsibility to operate the doors, make announcements, and ensure safety on and around the train. The other trains only have one person operating them (this form of operation is called OPTO), so there is a significant delay at stations. I believe Toronto is all-OPTO, as many other subways around the world. A few are even ZPTO. 4. The following stations are named for the street along which the line runs: • Jay Street-Borough Hall • Clark Street • Steinway Street • Eastern Parkway-Brooklyn Museum • Whitlock Avenue • 161st Street-River Avenue • Stillwell Avenue-Coney Island runs parallel to Stillwell Avenue. • Brighton Beach is directly above Brighton Beach Avenue 5. I'm quite sure that northbound E trains announce themselves as a "X-bound E express train" 6. Yes they should, but a better idea would be to redesign the map itself. A design like a hybrid of the 1967, 1972, and 1979 maps. Here's what I would extract from each of these. • From the 1967 map, I would take those boxes for each station that list which trains stop there. • From the 1972 map, I would have each route represented as a seperate and distinct line. • From the 1979 map (from which the current map is based), I would keep the trunk color coding, but give each line a distinct shade of that color. For example, the B, D, F, and V would each be a different shade of orange. I would also bring back the individual route maps on the reverse side (like this one that I made). 7. The 5 was recently modified to run to Flatbush Avenue during weekday middays. The "diamond" routes were introduced with the 1979 map to indicate rush hour service. Among the routes that had diamond versions were the CC, D, J, M, QB, RR, 5, 6, and 7. Later the A, B, C, N, Q, R, and 4 would get diamonds, and additional diamonds for the W would appear on rollsigns. The shift toward diamond meaning express started earlier this decade. When the north side of the Manhattan Bridge closed for rehabilitation work, the Brighton Line was served by two services: the (Q) and the <Q>. Also, increased ridership justified running the 6 and 7 expresses during the midday and evening hours, as well as rush hours. Further adding to the confusion was the fact that both the "diamond M" and "diamond B" ran local. So, once the need for the "diamond Q" was eliminated with the reopening of the Manhattan Bridge north side tracks in 2004, diamonds for non-express services was eliminated. |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Nov 18 12:28:29 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Nov 18 12:12:27 2009. Toronto still has 2PTO, but I believe all employees are trained and work as both T/O and C/R, doing T/O in one direction and C/R in the other, while their partner does the opposite. When I asked a supervisor at the TTC Rail Control Center if there were plans to go to OPTO, he gave me a look that said "Why did you have to ask me this question?" and then didn't really answer the question, mentioning that it was planned but the union would fight it and offering no timeline.OPTO systems include London, Paris (except Line 14, which is an example of a ZPTO), Madrid, Barcelona, Rome, Montreal, San Francisco, Chicago, Washington, and Atlanta. |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by lrg5784 on Wed Nov 18 13:14:11 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Wed Nov 18 10:12:53 2009. My apologies. |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Nov 18 13:35:00 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by rr4567 on Wed Nov 18 11:07:57 2009. you sooooooo got pwn3d. you guys are hilarious. |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Wed Nov 18 14:08:59 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by rr4567 on Wed Nov 18 10:42:26 2009. And if you put a picture of him up which is availiable all over the web his lapdogs call you a scumbag.He takes a picture of you like the sneak he his and he posts it its perfectly fine. |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by lrg5784 on Wed Nov 18 14:19:59 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by rr4567 on Wed Nov 18 11:07:57 2009. Sad, isn't it? |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by lrg5784 on Wed Nov 18 14:21:40 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Nov 18 13:35:00 2009. And what does that make you? An asshole, that's what. You would be very much appreciated here if you didn't have such a nasty attitude. |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by mshull on Wed Nov 18 14:38:32 2009, in response to Questions from the eager & curious, posted by Mike W. on Wed Nov 18 00:49:34 2009. The best answer for #6 seems to be...Based on track layout in the area. For example 2s and 3s are local everywhere except the Broadway-7th Ave trunk. Therefore, Park Place, Fulton St, Wall St and Clark St are all marked local only. Those stops are considered off the trunk line proper (Chambers to 96th). North of 168th St on the 8th Ave line, the express tracks become the local tracks, so again the A is marked as local only. (The A runs local it's entire run anyway whenever the C isn't running.) The oddity I don't like about that system is that Fulton St, Wall St and Bowling Green on the Lexington line are marked as all trains stop. WRONG! Those should be marked as an express only stop; there are no local trains there or even tracks to serve them. As a historical note about the 6th Ave IND tracks serving Grand St and 2nd Ave; the 6th Ave Express turns off onto Chrystie St to serve Grand St. The local tracks continue on Houston St to serve 2nd Ave and continue to Brooklyn. Grand is another station without local tracks, like the southern Lex line. DeKalb Ave IS marked incorrectly. 4th Ave Express trains don't stop there, so the map kludges and shows the D and N as separate lines. The station was supposed to be a 4th Ave local stop, but because of its location and track layout, all Brighton trains stop there too (post 1956). The B and Q are both express in Manhattan, so I guess that's where they get the all stop icon from. #7's answer should be "Additional Weird Service." The 5 on the White Plains Rd line north of East 180th St and on the Eastern Parkway line south of Franklin Ave should still have a diamond. (Normal service to Dyre Ave and Flatbush Ave) Likewise the new 4 express in the Bronx should also. These are separate services in addition to the regular service. Another service missing the diamond is the A to/from Rockaway Park during rush hours, normal service to Lefferts and Far Rock. The D on the other hand is only on the express track in the Bronx when the B is running local there. In effect, that's "normal" service. |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Nov 18 14:46:13 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by lrg5784 on Wed Nov 18 14:21:40 2009. lol, i don't care what you think. I'm quite happy with all the people here who I'm friends with, LOL. |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by lrg5784 on Wed Nov 18 15:01:54 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by mshull on Wed Nov 18 14:38:32 2009. The way I see it, the services should be labeled as a diamond if it's operating during the peak hour (e.g. |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Nov 18 16:25:59 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Nov 18 08:16:43 2009. Actually, #2 is not entirely wrong but just a bit inaccurate. The NYCTs doesn't have any artificial speed restriction on the entire system but just in certain areas where limited speed is required such as sharp curves and over switches and PATH has these also. The principal reason why NYCTA trains are usually slower than those on PATH is that there are few places on the NYCTS where trains can attain such high speeds before having to slow down for the next station stop. I don't believe that the distance across the flats enroute to the Rockaways is as long as the distance between JSQ and NWK so it would be highly unlikely that NYCTA trains would even be able to achieve their maximum speed potential there although they come close. |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by Subterranean Railway on Wed Nov 18 16:33:45 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by randyo on Wed Nov 18 16:25:59 2009. Doesn't the lack of field shunting also contribute to NYCTA's relatively low top speed? |
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Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Nov 18 16:33:58 2009, in response to Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious), posted by BLE-NIMX on Wed Nov 18 09:10:48 2009. Heh. Yeah, wanted to avoid the whole AMUE/SMEE thing as that would have really confused the OP. One learned with a simple tour of the Rockaway Park yahd that if you're going to step down and investigate, you'd better crank up a few handbrakes first or you'd have another escapee. I'm amazed that with all those arnines down there in the old days that they didn't require you to clamp a derailer behind you too. :) |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Nov 18 16:34:42 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by straphanger9 on Wed Nov 18 02:34:08 2009. Wow, even I understand this. Good job. |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Nov 18 16:39:33 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by randyo on Wed Nov 18 16:25:59 2009. I didn't want to get into the whole field shunting debate and horsepower and gear ratios there ... the OP didn't seem to be looking for mechnical drawings. That's why I added the ":)" at the end of that line there.Fact is though, we used to be able to wrap it into a curve WITH the field shunting on the old IND ... so the speed reductions *are* largely artificial ... |
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Re: SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious) |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Nov 18 16:42:17 2009, in response to SMEE (Re: Questions from the eager & curious), posted by straphanger9 on Wed Nov 18 02:44:54 2009. One slight correction. In the acronym SMEE, The first "E" stands for "emergency" and the last "E" stands for "electric" or "electropneumatic." If you research the various other brake systems, you will note that on the brake systems that are electropneumatic, the last letter in the acronym is always the "E." There actually is a SME system which operates almost identically to the SMEE but without the electropneumatic feature. That system was used on many streetcars and interurbans although prior to the development of the self lapping brake valve in the 1930s, the straight air pressure had to be applied by fanning the brake handle between service and lap positions similar to the AMUE and other reduction brake systems. The streetcars and interurban cars which used the SME system with which most railfans would probably be familiar are the P & W Red Arrow Bullet cars, BMT 6000 and 8000 series streetcars to name a few. |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by rr4567 on Wed Nov 18 16:51:27 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by straphanger9 on Wed Nov 18 12:00:18 2009. I read that post already. I'm asking if the setup is instant or maybe does it take a few seconds? |
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Re: Questions from the eager & curious |
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Posted by rr4567 on Wed Nov 18 16:57:27 2009, in response to Re: Questions from the eager & curious, posted by lrg5784 on Wed Nov 18 14:21:40 2009. Does it make him.......a fish asshole? 
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