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| "Off-Peak Trains stop here" Signs (834410) | |
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| (834413) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Wed Sep 16 17:02:14 2009, in response to "Off-Peak Trains stop here" Signs, posted by shiznit1987 on Wed Sep 16 16:54:40 2009. half length trains were run up until the 1990's |
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| (834417) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Sep 16 17:18:07 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by brightonr68 on Wed Sep 16 17:02:14 2009. Beyond that, crime was rampant in those days, and these were supposed to be "safe zoned" not that cops guarded each one, but there would be security in numbers rather than having a few people scattered up and down the platform.ROAR |
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| (834431) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by shiznit1987 on Wed Sep 16 18:13:11 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by brightonr68 on Wed Sep 16 17:02:14 2009. Is there any when's and why's behind that? |
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| (834442) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by BMTLines on Wed Sep 16 19:10:34 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by shiznit1987 on Wed Sep 16 18:13:11 2009. IIRC crime was one of the considerations - people were less likely to be victims if they were herded into smaller trains. |
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| (834454) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by shiznit1987 on Wed Sep 16 19:56:14 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by BMTLines on Wed Sep 16 19:10:34 2009. The "Kitty Genovse" effect makes me wonder how true that is.I would have supposed it might have been for equipment reasons (we all know how god afwul the MDBF became after the late 60s), but I didn't think crime was so rampant as to warrent altering the way the system was run. |
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| (834458) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Sep 16 20:08:06 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by shiznit1987 on Wed Sep 16 19:56:14 2009. The stated reason back then was that short trains would be easier to patrol and there would be fewer people isolated in end cars.Back in the old old days it was common to cut and add cars at different times of the day to reflect ridership changes, to save equipment wear-and-tear and save electrical costs. I can remember single A-types pulling in and out of Track H at Stillwell to make a six-car West End Express into a seven-car train for rush hours. Then the suits decided that it was cheaper to run full-length trains all day long because electricity was cheaper than labor and to hell with the wear-and-tear. After half-trainns were introduced at night the "Off-peak trains stop here" signs were introduced to keep people from having to run to catch short trains that weren't stopping where they thought they would. |
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| (834460) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Sep 16 20:09:39 2009, in response to "Off-Peak Trains stop here" Signs, posted by shiznit1987 on Wed Sep 16 16:54:40 2009. And how many Antique-Americans here remember when "TRAINS STOP AT THE CENTRE OF THE PLATFORM" signs were common on the BMT. |
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| (834461) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by BMTLines on Wed Sep 16 20:15:38 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by SLRT on Wed Sep 16 20:08:06 2009. The stated reason back then was that short trains would be easier to patrol and there would be fewer people isolated in end cars.That's how I remember it. I believe that was also the era that they designated certain parts of the platform or mezzanine as "Off Peak Waiting Area"... |
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| (834465) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by BMTLines on Wed Sep 16 20:21:39 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by shiznit1987 on Wed Sep 16 19:56:14 2009. I didn't think crime was so rampant as to warrent altering the way the system was run.Crime was bad (it actually was a lot worse than it is today) but in all fairness public perception was even worse than the reality. There was a lot of pressure on the politicians to "do something" and I guess making people feel safer by crowding them into shorter trains, providing waiting areas in view of the token clerks (even though there was nothing the token clerk could do), closing dangerous passageways and exits, etc. was the response. |
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| (834466) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by BMTLines on Wed Sep 16 20:24:39 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by SLRT on Wed Sep 16 20:09:39 2009. I remember them well - and before someone mentions it - yes the BMT did spell it "CENTRE" :) |
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| (834473) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Wed Sep 16 20:31:26 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by BMTLines on Wed Sep 16 20:15:38 2009. That was introduced in the mid to late eighties. The "Off-Peak Trains stop here" signs were put up in the early nineties when shorter trains were re-introduced on many lines that didn't have them. |
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| (834474) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Sep 16 20:32:51 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by SLRT on Wed Sep 16 20:09:39 2009. I remember them on Jamaica Ave stations before they were rehabbed in the 80's. I always wondered what the deal with "centre" was. |
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| (834475) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by arnine on Wed Sep 16 20:34:49 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by BMTLines on Wed Sep 16 20:15:38 2009. My station (63rd Drive) still has a designated waiting area, but haven't seen those signs in quite some time, but then haven't been looking for it either will check out of curiousity. |
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| (834476) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Sep 16 20:35:17 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by SLRT on Wed Sep 16 20:08:06 2009. The MTA brought the practice back in the 90's, with midday off-peak trains on the J, M and C lines at 240' and B trains at 360'. |
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| (834477) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by arnine on Wed Sep 16 20:36:42 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by BMTLines on Wed Sep 16 20:21:39 2009. I agree with all u said except for the token clerk comment, they were instructed to call the cops, which ain't much but better than nothing. |
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| (834486) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by R42 4787 on Wed Sep 16 20:46:03 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Sep 16 20:35:17 2009. I recall a Saturday 4-car D on the Manhattan Bridge circa 1993. |
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| (834492) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by BMTLines on Wed Sep 16 21:05:39 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by arnine on Wed Sep 16 20:36:42 2009. I agree - it was better than nothing but not the best either. At least it did give people the perception of security and may have at least deterred some crime |
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| (834496) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by BMTLines on Wed Sep 16 21:09:50 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Sep 16 20:32:51 2009. I always wondered what the deal with "centre" wasThat was the BMT being unique :) |
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| (834497) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by arnine on Wed Sep 16 21:14:18 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by BMTLines on Wed Sep 16 21:05:39 2009. True. It isn't the best. They always did and still do need something better just not sure what. |
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| (834498) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by shiznit1987 on Wed Sep 16 21:16:45 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by BMTLines on Wed Sep 16 20:21:39 2009. That makes sense. I know crime in the system was horrid in the 70s and 80s, but just not to such levels that it became an operational issue. That's like third-world type ish right there.....Where was the NYPD brass and City Hall on the issue back then? You'd think resouces would have been mobilized to some extent to try and quell the situation... |
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| (834504) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Sep 16 21:34:39 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by shiznit1987 on Wed Sep 16 21:16:45 2009. There wasn't any money, or they would have fixed the trains and cleaned the toilets. |
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| (834516) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by bzuck on Wed Sep 16 22:34:22 2009, in response to "Off-Peak Trains stop here" Signs, posted by shiznit1987 on Wed Sep 16 16:54:40 2009. While we are on a related topic with the current unit trains that can basically either be full length or half length why do they still maintain 4/6/8/10 stop markers? |
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| (834524) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Wed Sep 16 23:02:34 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by SLRT on Wed Sep 16 20:08:06 2009. ""Off-peak trains stop here" signs were introduced to keep people from having to run to catch short trains that weren't stopping where they thought they would."I remember the weird feeling of standing towards the end of a platform half asleep at dekalb Ave as a D entered the station(with blue doors I think) and pass me right by. By the time I realized and ran down the station the train was pulling out of the station |
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| (834525) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Wed Sep 16 23:02:34 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by SLRT on Wed Sep 16 20:08:06 2009. ""Off-peak trains stop here" signs were introduced to keep people from having to run to catch short trains that weren't stopping where they thought they would."I remember the weird feeling of standing towards the end of a platform half asleep at dekalb Ave as a D entered the station(with blue doors I think) and pass me right by. By the time I realized and ran down the station the train was pulling out of the station |
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| (834526) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Sep 16 23:03:36 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Sep 16 17:18:07 2009. Beyond that, crime was rampant in those days, and these were supposed to be "safe zoned" not that cops guarded each one, but there would be security in numbers rather than having a few people scattered up and down the platform.There were "Off Hours Waiting Area" signs for those safe zones. |
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| (834527) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Wed Sep 16 23:04:23 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by Wado MP73 on Wed Sep 16 20:31:26 2009. A little sign was far too little to let people know where the train stopped. that is why I support making the platform markers where trains stop all the time and yellow for sometimes. this would reduce confusion with riders |
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| (834528) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Sep 16 23:04:46 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by bzuck on Wed Sep 16 22:34:22 2009. Because the previous generation of train can still access that section of track.Case in point: the C train. Still runs with 8 cars, and uses R32s. |
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| (834529) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Wed Sep 16 23:05:07 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by arnine on Wed Sep 16 20:34:49 2009. Any place not renovated still have them |
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| (834530) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Wed Sep 16 23:07:23 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by R42 4787 on Wed Sep 16 20:46:03 2009. then the politicians came in and complained that riders were confused as to where to stop and then utter disregard for costs at the mta leads to huge budget shortfalls.OPTO short length trains is the way to go overnight. It can be done in a very cost effective way. |
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| (834531) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Wed Sep 16 23:19:20 2009, in response to "Off-Peak Trains stop here" Signs, posted by shiznit1987 on Wed Sep 16 16:54:40 2009. I remember shortly before I left in 1976, most A division trains were running 5-car trains on overnights (on the 10-car lines (2,4,5,6), they would just cut the train in half, which meant that no R-26/28/29/33s could be 5/6 in the train.) Not sure what they did w/ the 1 (8 cars) or the 3 (9 cars), well the 3 was a shuttle to 135/Lenox overnight anyway. I guess the 7 ran w/ 6 cars (cut the north 5 as the R-33WF was usually the 3rd north car). Not sure about the B division, but one time my mom and I were in Manhattan late (think we went to a play) and we were waiting for the D at one of the 6th Av stations, and a 4-car R-44 or R-46 arrived on the F (the C/R was in the last car). Nowadays, that F woulda been OPTO, I bet. I forget how long the D was when it arrived, or if it was a 44 or a SMEE. |
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| (834544) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by Kriston Lewis on Thu Sep 17 00:19:11 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by brightonr68 on Wed Sep 16 23:07:23 2009. OPTO short length trains is the way to go overnight. It can be done in a very cost effective way.Do you ride during the owl hours? You'd be surprised how crowded trains get. |
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| (834554) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by SLRT on Thu Sep 17 06:30:38 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by BMTLines on Wed Sep 16 20:21:39 2009. It is hard to imagine how bad crime was in New York, reaching a peak at the height of the "crack epidemic." I mean, 2000-2200 murders a year? You have to imagine the fear this generated.The crime rate (IIRC) was always lower in the subway than on the street, but as they observed at the time, people feel more trapped in the subway. When Bernhard Goetz's lawyer took the jury on a Redbird like the one (an R22 I think) the shootings took place on, it made the difference in Goetz's case. As long back as Wagner, the city spent $$$ to try to make people feel safe on the subway at night. He put a cop on EVERY train in the early morning hours, as in this 1964 photo. 
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| (834558) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by arnine on Thu Sep 17 07:20:22 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by SLRT on Thu Sep 17 06:30:38 2009. Ineteresting. |
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| (834575) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by North-Easten T/O on Thu Sep 17 10:20:14 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by brightonr68 on Wed Sep 16 23:02:34 2009. I did that a few time on the G last pick on the Weekends. People just look at you with a dumb look on there face as to why you did not stop were they are. It happen when the trains all the way in front and in Back, it even happen when the train stop in the middle of the platforms. I will give them a small chance, but if they did not even move or just walked without even tring to make it, the doors were closed and the train was gone. |
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| (834576) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by olivermuc on Thu Sep 17 10:23:21 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by SLRT on Wed Sep 16 20:08:06 2009. Same in Munich, in the 70's and 80's they used to lenghten or shorten trains depending on the time of day or the day of week.Now, they run almost all Munich subway services with full-length trains at all times (nota bene, we do not have overnight service, service ends around 1am weekday nights and around 2.30am weekend nights, to start again at around 5am). As for NYC, just a thought: maybe full-length trains during late night hours are the way to go nowadays, in contrast to the 1980's or early 90's. The city is a lot safer than it used to be 20 years ago, so more people are out on the streets late at night and need a ride home. I remember being on an R train shortly after midnight, leaving Atlantic Ave s/b with standing room only... wouldn't want to cut that train into 4 75' cars. |
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| (834580) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by North-Easten T/O on Thu Sep 17 10:43:22 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Sep 16 23:04:46 2009. Anwser me this. Why on the J,M line do they still have the 4,6,8 car stop all at the same place at most stops. It sould just be as "S" mark. |
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| (834582) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Sep 17 10:52:25 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by North-Easten T/O on Thu Sep 17 10:43:22 2009. Because there *used* to be different trainsets running there. They were all at the same place at *that* station, but because of the locations of stairs or whatever, other stations *might* have the markers located differently. No point in changing them *all* when the other numbers work just fine.ROAR |
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| (834583) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by f179dj on Thu Sep 17 10:59:01 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by North-Easten T/O on Thu Sep 17 10:43:22 2009. Cause, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. |
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| (834588) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by North-Easten T/O on Thu Sep 17 11:14:47 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Sep 17 10:52:25 2009. Going South bound most train stops are at the South end of the station with the C/R boards for R42's at the 3 south, Something North postion. So if the train was for a 4,6 or 8 car train there would not be a need for the all three, it sould just have been a "S" at these stops. Yes is the train stop ferther back 4,6 and 8 car at differnt spots. |
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| (835104) | |
Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs |
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Posted by B1bus on Fri Sep 18 15:30:24 2009, in response to Re: ''Off-Peak Trains stop here'' Signs, posted by brightonr68 on Wed Sep 16 23:07:23 2009. Yes, that was fun. During the winter sometime in the early 90's, the main exit at Ocean Pkwy was closed and the full time was the part time side. Overnight, 4 car D's still stopped at the front of the station and it was cold. I would run when the train came in all the way to the front. Except 1 time I went to the front first and THAT TIME a train was skipped and I was there for an extra 20 min. for no good reason.Good times. |
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