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| (827740) | |
1985 subway map |
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Posted by R42 4787 on Sun Aug 30 00:36:31 2009 With discusssions about the subways in the 80s in the last few month, I happened to find a 1985 map. Pardon the quality and bad cropping on my scanner. This was the first map upon eliminatation of double letters.Here's some things to to note: -K train -Nassau R (aka "Brown R") -Both sides of Manhattan Bridge open -No double letter routes -JFK Express -No free transfers at Times Square/PABT between A/C/E/K and BMT/IRT or between E/F and 6 at Lexington-53 until 1988 
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| (827742) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by EastSideRider on Sun Aug 30 00:43:19 2009, in response to 1985 subway map, posted by R42 4787 on Sun Aug 30 00:36:31 2009. :-0 Thanks for posting this! I miss these maps, in terms of the style and the actual showing of streets where they should be. |
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| (827743) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by JohnnyMints on Sun Aug 30 00:48:03 2009, in response to 1985 subway map, posted by R42 4787 on Sun Aug 30 00:36:31 2009. I caught 2 typos - Rector Street still mentions the "RR" and W. 4th Street still metions that "AA" and "CC"! |
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| (827746) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by Broadway Buffer on Sun Aug 30 01:25:49 2009, in response to 1985 subway map, posted by R42 4787 on Sun Aug 30 00:36:31 2009. Interesting that the Nassau R diamond is shown in yellow instead of the usual brown which would be the correct trunk line color. Although I'm not sure if either symbols were ever used on the actual trains. |
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| (827792) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by David on Sun Aug 30 08:43:39 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by JohnnyMints on Sun Aug 30 00:48:03 2009. Those aren't typos. The single letters didn't show up on the maps until 1987.David |
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| (827801) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Aug 30 09:36:44 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by Broadway Buffer on Sun Aug 30 01:25:49 2009. Broadway Buffer: Here's some information that you might find interesting:Posted by RedbirdR33 on Sun Feb 11 12:32:45 2007, in response to Re: THE ORPHANS OF CHRYSTIE STREET, PART 1 THE RJ, posted by TonyBroadway on Sun Feb 11 09:41:03 2007. when did the "Brown Diamond" R finally die? The designation of the "RR Nassau Street-Fourth Avenue Local" has always caused confusion. The RR Nassau Street- Fourth Avenue Local began operation on Monday, July 1, 1968. It was identified with a green line the same as the RR Broadway-Fourth Avenue Local. The only difference was that the service on Nassau Street was shown with dashes and not a solid line indicating a rush hour service. This wasn't so much of a problem when every subway line had its own color. The 1979 Edition of the subway map which was issued in June of that year simplified the color identification system by assigning a single color to each mainline. The color for the Broadway Line was yellow so all three Broadway routes; N,QB and RR were yellow either with a circle or a diamond. The diamond being for rush hour service.The Nassau Street Line became the brown line and so did its two routes the J and M. For whatever reason the TA chose to identify the Nassau Street RR servvice with a yellow color and shown it as a branch of the Broadway RR. This continued with the elimination of double letters effective with the subway map issued on May 10, 1985 although the official date of the changeover was actually a year later on May 5, 1986.We still had two yellow R's.Finally with the May, 24, 1987 subway map the Nassau Street R was given a brown color while the Broadway R retained its yellow color.Effective on this date also the Nassau Street R was virtually merged with the M and there was a through routing of train between Metropolitan Avenue and 95th Street. Trains carried M signs on the front rollsigns in one direction and R signs in the other direction.This lasted only until November 23, 1987 when Fourth Avenue-Nassau Street service was discontinued. The last train had cars (s)4878-,4850-1,4897-6 and 4937-6 (n).Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (827872) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sun Aug 30 11:15:18 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Aug 30 09:36:44 2009. Nope, double letter routes got eliminated in '85. |
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| (827874) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sun Aug 30 11:16:33 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by David on Sun Aug 30 08:43:39 2009. Wrong. |
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| (827876) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sun Aug 30 11:19:20 2009, in response to 1985 subway map, posted by R42 4787 on Sun Aug 30 00:36:31 2009. Thanks for the map, but what about the rest? |
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| (827909) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 30 11:49:24 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by bigrene22 on Sun Aug 30 11:15:18 2009. Double letters survived for as long as trains with old signage remained in service. Since the R16's retained their old signs to the end, you could see "JJ" and "LL" trains well into 1987. Many R44 and R46 cars never got single lettered signs until they went for GOH in 1989. The 5/6/86 date refers to the moment where double letters were ceased being used administratively. Most trains in service when this map was released did not have the proper signage. Double letters dominated through 1985. |
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| (827913) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 30 11:54:46 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Aug 30 09:36:44 2009. One other note: no train EVER used a brown R sign. All the trains equipped with them had them installed AFTER the route was eliminated (except for the R38, but they never ran on this line). All diamond R's used yellow signage to the bitter end. You're correct in noting that the diamond R and M virtually became one route after the May 24th N/R terminal swap. Until then the yellow and brown R's exchanged trains, afterwards the "brown" R had to have it's own fleet, so every northbound brown R was a turned southbound brown R from Metropolitan Ave. Very few morning M trains ran to Bay Parkway in these days, the M's were almost all put-ins from CI. |
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| (827916) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 30 11:55:53 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by bigrene22 on Sun Aug 30 11:19:20 2009. That's a tourist map. The real full map looked nothing like that. |
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| (827921) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 30 11:58:40 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by David on Sun Aug 30 08:43:39 2009. No, the 1985 map was the first to show the single letters. It can be easily identified because it has the large box in Jamaica noting that the last two stations on the J being closed on 4/15/85. I believe the next map was issued in early 1986, showing the "temporary" Manhattan Bridge reroutes in a box near the bottom. The 1987 map showed these reroutes in a more permanent form, giving birth to the "yellow" B and D. |
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| (827925) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sun Aug 30 12:01:53 2009, in response to 1985 subway map, posted by R42 4787 on Sun Aug 30 00:36:31 2009. Interesting how the map is oriented sideways with west at the top, IRT-style. I remember seeing a 1985 map without the double letters and one with them. For someone who was seven years old at the time, you could just imagine the confusion on my face. |
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| (827929) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sun Aug 30 12:04:32 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by JohnnyMints on Sun Aug 30 00:48:03 2009. There's also an extra E at Spring Street, no R at 28th Street and N at Times Sq is shown in light (part-time service) type. |
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| (827932) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 30 12:05:21 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sun Aug 30 12:01:53 2009. I still used them until the signage disappeared. It was always the CC, LL or RR. I ditched AA quicker because it's replacement was a different letter altogether. |
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| (827933) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by David on Sun Aug 30 12:07:06 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 30 11:58:40 2009. Thanks. I guess I had it mixed up with the N/R switch, which was indeed in 1987.David |
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| (827964) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sun Aug 30 12:47:49 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sun Aug 30 12:04:32 2009. From a previous message: "N at Times Sq is shown in light (part-time service) type."There was a time when N trains became a shuttle during the midnight hours, and R trains ran all 365-7-24. Whatever train that ran to Astoria was the all night train, while the other became a shuttle to/from 36th street in Brooklyn. Once the Queens terminal swap of the N and R train occured, the N-train became the 24-7-365 route, and the R-train began to have the midnight shuttle in Brooklyn. Mike |
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| (827980) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sun Aug 30 13:29:50 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 30 11:49:24 2009. I remember seeing a single letter (R) on a rollsign in 1985.The (M) also had the old light blue color on the bullet rollsign on the R16's 'till the end (1987). I remember riding an R16 on the M in the fall of 1986. One R16 I think was one put-in trains for the Broadway yellow B route in the fall of 1986, 'cause I remember seeing one. The bullet rollsign on that R16 was black instead of yellow or orange. Yes, when the J train ran R16s in the 80s, it had a orange/apricot rollsign bullet instead of the usual brown bullet. It was kind of confusing at first, but I knew the difference between the two routes. I can imagine how many double letters in rollsigns existed through '85.... |
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| (827981) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 30 13:32:02 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by bigrene22 on Sun Aug 30 13:29:50 2009. I remember seeing a single letter (R) on a rollsign in 1985.Yes, but not all cars got new signs at the same time. The R27-38's got them through the latter half of 1985, most R44/46's got them in early 1986 and the R40/42's got them soon after. It was quite possible to see a single train with double letters in one car, and singles in another. They co-existed for quite some time. |
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| (827982) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sun Aug 30 13:32:04 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 30 11:55:53 2009. Oh, ok. I just wish someone here can scan a Fall of '85 subway map.... |
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| (827983) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sun Aug 30 13:32:13 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by Michael549 on Sun Aug 30 12:47:49 2009. True, but it is a typo because the N is showed in bold print at 34th, 14th and Canal Streets. Like every geographical map printed since 1979, all trains that stop at a station between 6 AM and midnight without exception are shown in bold print. The N always stopped at Times Square between 6 AM and midnight (like now) so it should have been in bold print. Midnight service isn't shown on these maps. If it were, the 6 would be in light print and the 4 would be shown in light print at Lexington Avenue local stations, because in 1985, the 6 did not run below 125th Street between 1 and 5 AM and the 4 ran local in its place. |
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| (827984) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 30 13:33:58 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by bigrene22 on Sun Aug 30 13:32:04 2009. I had one, but I lost it. Also had a 1980 map which I ruined. Now I have no post '79 map which has double lettered routes at all. |
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| (827988) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sun Aug 30 13:37:44 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 30 13:32:02 2009. I remember seeing the R32's rollsigns that had a single letter (R) in the summer of 1985. This train was stored in the middle track on the Astoria El. |
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| (827991) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sun Aug 30 13:40:00 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 30 13:33:58 2009. Well, that's a shame. No old maps from the late 70s-early-to-mid 80s. I also had a fall of 1980 subway map which I lost too. |
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| (827994) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by 33rd Street on Sun Aug 30 13:49:21 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 30 11:54:46 2009. R32 car number 3376 has the Brown Diamond R on the side roll signs. I saw it yesterday at 36th Street. |
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| (827998) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sun Aug 30 14:01:33 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 30 11:58:40 2009. Even though the Queens Blvd & the Metropolitan Avenue stations on the old end of the Jamaica Avenue El closed on 4/15/1985, the El structure along with the 2 stations got demolished in fall 1990/early 1991. The old end of the structure got disconnected from the rest of Jamaica Avenue El in 1985, when the then-new ramp to the Archer Avenue Subway was being built. I remember when the El structure was being taken down over the LIRR, and there was no service on the LIRR that weekend in early 1991. The old end of the Jamaica Avenue El was still up, when I walked under it in 1989. |
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| (828025) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Sun Aug 30 15:22:52 2009, in response to 1985 subway map, posted by R42 4787 on Sun Aug 30 00:36:31 2009. Wow, the nostalgia!!! The JFK Express, the "Diamond R" to Chambers Street (J/M), the K Train, the E & F on the 53rd Street Line, the RR!! Oh my!! :-D |
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| (828064) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by Ken S. on Sun Aug 30 17:02:27 2009, in response to 1985 subway map, posted by R42 4787 on Sun Aug 30 00:36:31 2009. Why does it look like the J is going into Brooklyn? |
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| (828075) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sun Aug 30 17:23:49 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by Ken S. on Sun Aug 30 17:02:27 2009. How? |
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| (828078) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by Ken S. on Sun Aug 30 17:25:19 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by bigrene22 on Sun Aug 30 17:23:49 2009. It shows the J with the M and R where the two branches of the R join. |
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| (828083) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sun Aug 30 17:28:46 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by Ken S. on Sun Aug 30 17:25:19 2009. Oh, ok. I've just seen it. Confusing if you ask me... |
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| (828273) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by R42 4787 on Mon Aug 31 00:26:34 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sun Aug 30 12:01:53 2009. The Streetwise Manhattan map is oriented in the same manner as well with north facing at right and west at top. |
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| (828277) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by R42 4787 on Mon Aug 31 00:30:39 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 30 11:49:24 2009. The R10s used the double letter CC and HH designations to the end in 1989. |
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| (828280) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Mon Aug 31 00:33:49 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by bigrene22 on Sun Aug 30 17:28:46 2009. Could be a misprint!! It happens!! |
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| (828281) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Mon Aug 31 00:35:06 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by R42 4787 on Mon Aug 31 00:30:39 2009. Yet, somehow I recall seeing a single letter |
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| (828282) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Mon Aug 31 00:36:01 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Mon Aug 31 00:33:49 2009. 若干数 |
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| (828291) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by Union Turnpike on Mon Aug 31 00:44:46 2009, in response to 1985 subway map, posted by R42 4787 on Sun Aug 30 00:36:31 2009. Why does this map show the diamond C? IIRC from the What is a K Train brocheure, the diamond CC became the C and the (CC) became the new (H). |
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| (828292) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Mon Aug 31 00:46:08 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by Union Turnpike on Mon Aug 31 00:44:46 2009. The (H) Rockaway Round-Robin Shuttle isn't even on that map. |
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| (828293) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by Union Turnpike on Mon Aug 31 00:49:47 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by EastSideRider on Sun Aug 30 00:43:19 2009. The map almost looks like the 1985 Manhattan Bus Map minus the bus routes, doesn't it? |
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| (828295) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Mon Aug 31 00:52:40 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by Union Turnpike on Mon Aug 31 00:49:47 2009. がばた |
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| (828297) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Mon Aug 31 01:18:05 2009, in response to 1985 subway map, posted by R42 4787 on Sun Aug 30 00:36:31 2009. Cool! Thanks for posting this. |
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| (828299) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Aug 31 01:31:28 2009, in response to 1985 subway map, posted by R42 4787 on Sun Aug 30 00:36:31 2009. Very nice....They didn't really proofread this thing, did they?! |
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| (828304) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by metropod on Mon Aug 31 01:39:51 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by bigrene22 on Mon Aug 31 00:36:01 2009. タイプので、他の人々がそれを読むことができます |
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| (828307) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by Broadway Buffer on Mon Aug 31 02:09:58 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Aug 30 09:36:44 2009. Thank you very much, this answers a lot of my questions about the Nassau Street R service. |
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| (828310) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by Broadway Buffer on Mon Aug 31 02:33:28 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by 33rd Street on Sun Aug 30 13:49:21 2009. In addition to some R-32s, they are still common on R-42 rollsigns since R-42s began running on the R. I've seen a few trains almost completely signed as brown diamond R's. |
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| (828326) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Aug 31 04:12:42 2009, in response to 1985 subway map, posted by R42 4787 on Sun Aug 30 00:36:31 2009. This just doesn't strike me as an official TA Map. |
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| (828327) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Aug 31 04:16:13 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by bigrene22 on Sun Aug 30 13:40:00 2009. If i ever get my office cleaned, I have a number of old maps to scan. |
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| (828365) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by Neil Feldman on Mon Aug 31 09:33:19 2009, in response to 1985 subway map, posted by R42 4787 on Sun Aug 30 00:36:31 2009. In the map the "Brown" (R)" was actually a "yellow", and at Brooklyn Bridge, it was called Brooklyn Bridge-Worth Street. JFK express was in full swing, the K survived until December, 1988, and there was also the |
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| (828381) | |
Re: 1985 subway map |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Aug 31 10:45:17 2009, in response to Re: 1985 subway map, posted by 33rd Street on Sun Aug 30 13:49:21 2009. Yep, but that R32 didn't return from GOH until after the diamond R was eliminated. |
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