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| (809772) | |
Stainless steel subway car fabrication |
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Posted by diver on Fri Jul 17 14:19:32 2009 I am trying to find out how some decommiassioned subways cars (R-32, R-38, R-40, R042) Brightliners made by Budd Co. and St. Louis Car Co.> were fabricated. Specifically, I am interested in how the stainless > steel outer skin was attached to the carbon steel frames/underbody. Thanks |
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| (809794) | |
Re: Stainless steel subway car fabrication |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Jul 17 14:53:51 2009, in response to Stainless steel subway car fabrication, posted by diver on Fri Jul 17 14:19:32 2009. I think they used Gorilla Glue.ROARING! |
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| (809798) | |
Re: Stainless steel subway car fabrication |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jul 17 15:08:22 2009, in response to Stainless steel subway car fabrication, posted by diver on Fri Jul 17 14:19:32 2009. The Budd Cars wee all stainless IINM. Budd had a patented method for welding stainless. Laying up stainless over carbon steel was a very bad idea. Research the history of he C&O Pullman Standard built fleet. |
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| (809799) | |
Re: Stainless steel subway car fabrication |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Jul 17 15:12:28 2009, in response to Re: Stainless steel subway car fabrication, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Jul 17 14:53:51 2009. They used a process called "shot welding".Shot Welding |
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Re: Stainless steel subway car fabrication |
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Posted by R42 4787 on Fri Jul 17 15:16:22 2009, in response to Re: Stainless steel subway car fabrication, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jul 17 15:08:22 2009. St. Louis used LAHT roofing and under-sill areas, prone to rust. |
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| (809802) | |
Re: Stainless steel subway car fabrication |
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Posted by North-Easten T/O on Fri Jul 17 15:36:15 2009, in response to Re: Stainless steel subway car fabrication, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Jul 17 14:53:51 2009. Gorilla Glue was not around when they were built. I was not more like Crazy Glue. The R142's and up are Gorilla Glued together. |
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| (809806) | |
Re: Stainless steel subway car fabrication |
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Posted by R42 4787 on Fri Jul 17 15:50:49 2009, in response to Re: Stainless steel subway car fabrication, posted by North-Easten T/O on Fri Jul 17 15:36:15 2009. I thought they're all welded, not glued? |
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| (809974) | |
Re: Stainless steel subway car fabrication |
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Posted by diver on Sat Jul 18 08:43:37 2009, in response to Re: Stainless steel subway car fabrication, posted by R42 4787 on Fri Jul 17 15:16:22 2009. Thanks for the responses. We are trying to determine why the Brightliners failed so rapidly underwater, when used to build reefs, while the carbon steel Redbirds seem to be doing much better. It looks like the stainless skin detached from the underframe. Tensile stress from wave forces may also be a factor. |
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| (810065) | |
Re: Stainless steel subway car fabrication |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Sat Jul 18 16:10:42 2009, in response to Re: Stainless steel subway car fabrication, posted by diver on Sat Jul 18 08:43:37 2009. Would you happen to have pictures of them underwater you could share with us in your factfinding? Most of us here would be grateful to see how and what they are doing there. I found it highly fascinating to see some of the redbirds I ran and rode with sea turtles floating through them. |
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| (810068) | |
Re: Stainless steel subway car fabrication |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Jul 18 16:30:05 2009, in response to Re: Stainless steel subway car fabrication, posted by R42 4787 on Fri Jul 17 15:50:49 2009. I should point out that crazy glue was known as Eastman 910 from Kodak's Tenn chemical division as far back as 1958 when Model Railroader magazine ran a review of its properties, noting avilability in 55 ga drums, tee hee. |
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| (810072) | |
Re: Stainless steel subway car fabrication |
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Posted by diver on Sat Jul 18 16:59:16 2009, in response to Stainless steel subway car fabrication, posted by diver on Fri Jul 17 14:19:32 2009. There are lots of photos on the web (Google images subway car reefs) but some of the best are at: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.njscuba.net/zzz_reefs/reef_balls_ss.jpg&imgrefurl=http://njscuba.net/reefs/misc_materials.html&usg=__-7EljarVWTA7cMq3YVvOOHx7sro=&h=365&w=500&sz=89&hl=en&start=12&tbnid=3sS138fVNd6YEM:&tbnh=95&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsubway%2Bcar%2Breefs%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG I will try to pull some stills from the video and post later |
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| (810075) | |
Re: Stainless steel subway car fabrication |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Sat Jul 18 17:05:10 2009, in response to Re: Stainless steel subway car fabrication, posted by diver on Sat Jul 18 16:59:16 2009. Wonderful stuff.I hope this link works. Scuba diving |
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| (810371) | |
Re: Stainless steel subway car fabrication |
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Posted by diver on Sun Jul 19 13:03:45 2009, in response to Re: Stainless steel subway car fabrication, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Jul 17 15:12:28 2009. Interesting. I had assumed the stainless skin peices were shot welded to each other, but did not know how they were attached to the underbody or chassis. If they are welded, this may ideed be the week pointReferences seem to suggest the Budd cars (R-32s) had stainless frames (all stainless) while the St. Louis cars (R-38, R-40 and R-42) had carbon steel. If so, it may be interesting to see if there is a difference in failure modes. |
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| (810379) | |
Re: Stainless steel subway car fabrication |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Sun Jul 19 13:09:35 2009, in response to Re: Stainless steel subway car fabrication, posted by diver on Sun Jul 19 13:03:45 2009. Interesting. I had assumed the stainless skin pieces were shot welded to each other, but did not know how they were attached to the under body or chassis.I'm not too clear on that either. |
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| (811226) | |
Re: Stainless steel subway car fabrication |
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Posted by Bill West on Tue Jul 21 02:42:54 2009, in response to Stainless steel subway car fabrication, posted by diver on Fri Jul 17 14:19:32 2009. Stainless can be arc welded and I believe it can be joined to mild steel that way. I recollect that the vestibules of Budd long distance cars have plug welded connections (fill up some punched holes) between stubs up from their mild steel bolster/draft pocket/end sill frames and the collision post uprights. Budd’s uniqueness was more exactly in being able to exploit the low cost of spot welding to build rail cars just as had been successful in automobile bodies. Competitors Pullman, ACF and St Louis all put out stainless cars but without access to Budd’s patents they had to use LAHT shells and then just put decorative stainless sheathing over it. This covering of the shell keeps in the moisture and leads to the well known rust nightmare. I haven’t looked at one of these for a while but I think the sheathing was just attached over sheet metal LAHT sidewalls by sheet metal screws or small rivets the size of modern pop rivets. So I don’t find it surprising that the St Louis Brightliners are falling apart in the salt water. Electrolysis between the different metal compositions may even be speeding up separation of the skin from the frames.Bill |
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| (811229) | |
Re: Stainless steel subway car fabrication |
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Posted by metropod on Tue Jul 21 03:07:28 2009, in response to Stainless steel subway car fabrication, posted by diver on Fri Jul 17 14:19:32 2009. I would just like to point out that the name "Brightliner" is used only in refernce to cars of the R32 design. I've seen R38s called "Baby Brights". R40s with the slanted noses are called Slants. R40s with straight fronts are called Mods. I've never seen an R42 nickname. |
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| (811275) | |
Re: Stainless steel subway car fabrication |
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Posted by diver on Tue Jul 21 08:33:43 2009, in response to Stainless steel subway car fabrication, posted by diver on Fri Jul 17 14:19:32 2009. Thanks, this is information very helpful. I stand corrected with respect to the use of the term 'Brightliner' and will look at potential differences between the Budd Co. R-32s Brightliners and the other St. Louis stainless clad cars. |
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