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| (788355) | |
Double Letters |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sat May 23 11:59:27 2009 When was the exact date that the double letters got eliminated? |
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| (788399) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by Andy on Sat May 23 14:00:19 2009, in response to Double Letters, posted by bigrene22 on Sat May 23 11:59:27 2009. Believe it was in 1987; don't know the exact date. But I do remember it was when the N and R (old RR) switched north terminals to create the pattern still in use today - N to Astoria, R to Forest Hills. |
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| (788404) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by R42 4787 on Sat May 23 14:14:16 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by Andy on Sat May 23 14:00:19 2009. Actually 1985, the RR was already the R by the time the Astoria switch (May 24, 1987). |
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| (788405) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sat May 23 14:16:49 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by R42 4787 on Sat May 23 14:14:16 2009. Thanks. But what month in 1985? |
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| (788411) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sat May 23 14:35:30 2009, in response to Double Letters, posted by bigrene22 on Sat May 23 11:59:27 2009. When was the exact date that the double letters got eliminated?The double letters for the shuttles (SS) was eliminated in June 1979 when the new subway map was printed. The remaining double letter routes (AA,CC,GG,QB and RR) were changed to single letter by General Order on May 6,1986. Since it was not possible to change all the rollsigns overnight trains with single letters were running before and train with double letters were running after this date. The following double letter routes have operated at one time or another on the system;AA,BB,CC,DD,EE,GG,HH,JJ,KK,LL,MJ,NX,QB,QJ,QT,RJ,RR,SS,TT.Did I leave any out? Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (788412) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by R42 4787 on Sat May 23 14:42:31 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sat May 23 14:35:30 2009. The NX was probably the shortest lived of these routes (1967-68). |
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| (788414) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat May 23 14:48:11 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by R42 4787 on Sat May 23 14:42:31 2009. And deservedly so ... had to be the dumbest route ever, and completely screwed up three terminals for next to nobody riding. |
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| (788415) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by Dan on Sat May 23 14:50:10 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sat May 23 14:35:30 2009. Thanks for the info. I took a look at the "What's a K train" brochure detailing the conversion to single letters, but there is no date anywhere on it, not even in the small print. |
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| (788426) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sat May 23 15:10:53 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sat May 23 14:35:30 2009. I thought is was in 1985? |
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| (788428) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat May 23 15:19:57 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by R42 4787 on Sat May 23 14:42:31 2009. The NX was probably the shortest lived of these routes (1967-68).My nomination is the DD. |
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| (788448) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by R 36 ML 9542 on Sat May 23 16:01:22 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by R42 4787 on Sat May 23 14:42:31 2009. Wasnt there an FF? |
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| (788450) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat May 23 16:06:18 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by R 36 ML 9542 on Sat May 23 16:01:22 2009. Don't recall but there WAS an FQ (really!). when Qs terminated at 21 Queens-bridge, late nights. Some 46s even had black on white signs proclaiming as much. |
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| (788451) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by R42 4787 on Sat May 23 16:09:03 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat May 23 16:06:18 2009. When? Early 90s? |
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| (788452) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by Dan on Sat May 23 16:11:00 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat May 23 16:06:18 2009. Don't recall but there WAS an FQ (really!). when Qs terminated at 21 Queens-bridge, late nights. Some 46s even had black on white signs proclaiming as much.Impossible! We need photographic "proff" of your statement! |
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| (788455) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat May 23 16:17:21 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by R42 4787 on Sat May 23 16:09:03 2009. That sounds about right. Before 63rd St was hooked into the QB line. |
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| (788457) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat May 23 16:19:33 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by Dan on Sat May 23 16:11:00 2009. Sorry don't have any. I know I saw and remember it. You just have to take my word for it. There are others around her that can verify it. I have no reason to lie. |
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| (788458) | |
Re: Double Letters ANYONE remember the F/Q train? |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat May 23 16:20:21 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by Dan on Sat May 23 16:11:00 2009. Sorry don't have any. I know I saw and remember it. You just have to take my word for it. There are others around her that can verify it. I have no reason to lie. |
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| (788461) | |
Re: Double Letters ANYONE remember the F/Q train? |
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Posted by Dan on Sat May 23 16:28:16 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters ANYONE remember the F/Q train?, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat May 23 16:20:21 2009. Not lying, but maybe faulty memory. Happens to us all. I can swear I rode an R-46 "R" from Brooklyn into Broad Street back in 1985 or 86, But I know that couldn't have occured. |
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| (788473) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat May 23 16:52:47 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by R 36 ML 9542 on Sat May 23 16:01:22 2009. That would have been the V train, but I don't think it ever existed. |
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| (788475) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 23 16:54:21 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by R 36 ML 9542 on Sat May 23 16:01:22 2009. No, the only original IND letter never to have a single and double use. |
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| (788477) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 23 16:58:14 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat May 23 15:19:57 2009. Talk about an overcomplicated service plan. All that was necessary was to route the D over the 8th Ave local track, doable around the clock since the E ran express during peak hours, while cutting back the F to 34th around the clock. How long did this last? A week? |
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| (788480) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sat May 23 17:06:18 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sat May 23 14:35:30 2009. I don't know about that, but on my Fall of 1985 edition of the 1979 map, there was no double letter routes. |
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| (788481) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by R42 4787 on Sat May 23 17:08:09 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat May 23 15:19:57 2009. America runs on DD! |
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| (788482) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sat May 23 17:08:26 2009, in response to Double Letters, posted by bigrene22 on Sat May 23 11:59:27 2009. When was the double letters taken off the rollsigns of the trains? |
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| (788485) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by R42 4787 on Sat May 23 17:12:13 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by bigrene22 on Sat May 23 17:08:26 2009. I'd assume in 1986-88. Latest is when the 60' SMEEs were rebuilt in 1987-89. |
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| (788486) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 23 17:15:32 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by bigrene22 on Sat May 23 17:06:18 2009. Double letters never went away overnight. 1985 saw the first of the new era of signs which had the new single lettered routes appear. Around this time station signage and maps began appearing lacking the double letters. You could easily walk into the 23rd/8th St. station, see C and K signage, but have a train sporting AA and CC signage pull into the station. Many R44/46 cars never lost their late 70's stripmapped signs until late 1988. Double lettered signs survived all the way to 1989 on the last of the R10's that had the old signs intact. They only showed double letters when used on the H, as they had long unused C signs to use. |
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| (788489) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sat May 23 17:17:53 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by R42 4787 on Sat May 23 17:12:13 2009. When was double letters taken off the signs in the train stations and the subway entrances? |
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| (788492) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 23 17:19:38 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by bigrene22 on Sat May 23 17:08:26 2009. Most got single lettered signage by 1985. The R16's never did. Many of the GE R10's and some of the Westinghouse "green" cars also retained their original signage, but these cars actually had "C" signage, so they could be signed properly. The last train I ever saw sporting double letters was in late 1988, on the H (HH). |
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| (788493) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 23 17:20:29 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by bigrene22 on Sat May 23 17:17:53 2009. 1985. |
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| (788494) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sat May 23 17:21:51 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 23 17:15:32 2009. So when did every subway entrance or train station had got replaced with modern signs? |
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| (788497) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sat May 23 17:24:51 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 23 17:20:29 2009. Are you sure it wasn't later than that? That's was probably a lot of work to do. |
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| (788498) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 23 17:25:55 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by bigrene22 on Sat May 23 17:24:51 2009. It was done over time. I actually remember seeing workers doing it at Woodhaven Blvd (IND) that summer. |
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| (788499) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 23 17:27:37 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by bigrene22 on Sat May 23 17:21:51 2009. Your questions are too vague and esoteric. |
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| (788500) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sat May 23 17:27:45 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 23 17:25:55 2009. All 400+ stations? |
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| (788501) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by R42 4787 on Sat May 23 17:30:17 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by bigrene22 on Sat May 23 17:27:45 2009. Not every station had double letters. Only IND lines. Hundreds of IRT/BMT stations not affected. |
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| (788504) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sat May 23 17:30:56 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 23 17:27:37 2009. The problem with you guys is you don't even know when the exact changes happened. ::Rollseyes:: |
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| (788505) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by MJF on Sat May 23 17:31:05 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 23 17:27:37 2009. That's SubChat. |
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| (788507) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sat May 23 17:34:40 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 23 17:27:37 2009. Sorry about that, but you just don't understand my questions too well. |
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| (788508) | |
Re: Double Letters ANYONE remember the F/Q train? |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat May 23 17:36:11 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters ANYONE remember the F/Q train?, posted by Dan on Sat May 23 16:28:16 2009. Nah, I have faultymemory on most thing. But, this is not one of them. As I said, it has been discussed her b4, I'm just waiting for others to put in their "2 cents". |
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| (788511) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sat May 23 17:45:28 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by R 36 ML 9542 on Sat May 23 16:01:22 2009. If we were still suing double-letters, the V would probably be the FF.AFAIK, there never was an ACTUAL FF, but the R1/9 roll signs had it. Saw that myself at the Transit Museum. |
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| (788517) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sat May 23 17:54:06 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by bigrene22 on Sat May 23 17:24:51 2009. As you have stated elsewhere in this thread, it's not the sort of thing that can occur overnight, especially in a large organization with budget issues. From what I'm gathering, the TA made a decsion around the time they ordered the R68s to do away with double-letters. The 68s arrived without them. But eh routes were still OFFICIALLY designated with double letters utnil the GO went into effect in 1986,But even after that date, there were older cars with double letters still showing on the roll signs, as, for example, an R27, which was still in service, couldn't display "L". And, as I think you must have observed, station signage is often replaced with a sticker placed over an older sign. Therefore, even if a TA crew slapped an "R" over "RR" or "L" over "LL", vandalism and/or bad glue could have revealed the old double letter years later. I'd guess that if you knew where to look, you find a double letter station sign intot he 1990s or so. I'm sorry this isn't what you seem to be looking for... I'll ask MY question to the board now, which may help you: When was the last time (after the official elimination of double letters) anyobody out there remembers a train and/or station signage that displayed a double letter? Any info would be appreciated. |
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| (788520) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by Dan on Sat May 23 17:57:50 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by MainR3664 on Sat May 23 17:45:28 2009. Never an "FF" even though someone here a while back claimed that they "saw" an R44 or 46 signed as "FF". Maybe in their transit dreams but not in the real world. |
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| (788526) | |
Re: Double Letters ANYONE remember the F/Q train? |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Sat May 23 18:07:15 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters ANYONE remember the F/Q train?, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat May 23 17:36:11 2009. Most trains changed their front roll sign from F to Q at Broadway-Lafayette going northbound. There was a reminder sign for the T/Os located at the ten-car marker. |
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| (788527) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat May 23 18:07:52 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 23 17:27:37 2009. wrong, that's Chris. |
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| (788529) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Sat May 23 18:13:06 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by bigrene22 on Sat May 23 17:21:51 2009. It hasn't happened yet. Some stations still has signs from pre-unification. |
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| (788532) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by Bob Andersen on Sat May 23 18:14:28 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sat May 23 14:35:30 2009. Larry, you once answered a question I had on which of the original IND lettes had ever been actually used in service. Here is your reply from over 10 years ago in SubTalk |
[ Read Responses | Post a New Response | Return to the Index ] Re: Original IND Letter DesignationsPosted by RedbirdR33 on Thu Dec 24 00:20:47 1998, in response to Original IND Letter Designations,
(There are no responses to this message.) Replying to posts on SubTalk are disabled at this time. |
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| (788535) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Sat May 23 18:22:57 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by MainR3664 on Sat May 23 17:54:06 2009. On trains, 1989. I last saw a K train signed as AA in 1988, but R10 C trains were often signed CC even after they replaced the K. |
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| (788537) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Sat May 23 18:35:04 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by MainR3664 on Sat May 23 17:54:06 2009. The map at 57th/6th was a 1976 one until a few years ago. Probably the last if you don't count peeled off stickers. |
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| (788538) | |
Re: Double Letters ANYONE remember the F/Q train? |
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Posted by R30A on Sat May 23 18:35:32 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters ANYONE remember the F/Q train?, posted by Wado MP73 on Sat May 23 18:07:15 2009. I have seen a picture of a side sign designation claiming something along the lines of F Coney Island Q 21 Queensbridge on a single reading.I remember hearing from A CR that there was a bulletin for CRs to state at Bway Lafayette and at 47/50 that "This train is now an F/Q train to..." Officially, the F terminated at 47/50, and the Q ran local down 6th ave to Bway Lafayette. |
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| (788539) | |
Re: Double Letters |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat May 23 18:36:47 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by bigrene22 on Sat May 23 17:27:45 2009. It really wasn't that much of of job, all things considered. Decals and all, there was not that much sign changing involve. |
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