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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Wed Jun 25 09:42:52 2008, in response to Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by SMAZ on Wed Jun 25 02:37:08 2008.

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you are wrong, what a pitty, go put your head up an executive's behind. Fish out a banana for him, or eat it.

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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by trainsarefun on Wed Jun 25 09:59:47 2008, in response to Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by MJF on Wed Jun 25 05:20:50 2008.

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It seems like it would be difficult for him to fall below the personal relations skills exhibited by Peter Kallikow. He at least has made an effort to be perceived this way by visiting working employees.

But you're right, that doesn't of itself mean that he wouldn't meet that standard. And the visits could be a veneer.

Overall, what I meant was not that Sander would labor's sweetheart, or even that he would treat them fairly. All that I meant by the remark is that he might refrain from being an asshole in terms of demeanor during negotiating, not that he wouldn't nonetheless make harsh, perhaps even unreasonable, demands.

But my perception is that Sander wouldn't, say, call NYCT employees a bunch of thugs, unlike a certain other elected leader.....

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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by trainsarefun on Wed Jun 25 10:04:13 2008, in response to Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Wed Jun 25 09:42:52 2008.

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'A mind is a terrible thing to waste.....'

'Before posting...think twice!'



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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by Railman718 on Wed Jun 25 12:19:56 2008, in response to Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by trainsarefun on Wed Jun 25 09:59:47 2008.

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But my perception is that Sander wouldn't, say, call NYCT employees a bunch of thugs, unlike a certain other elected leader.....

With a lot of people agreeing with him as well..

Even some of em that post here...

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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Wed Jun 25 12:23:40 2008, in response to Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by Railman718 on Wed Jun 25 12:19:56 2008.

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Bloomberg is only interested in keeping his wall street puppies happy. Now he has a plan to cut school spending, what a shame. He also wants to force people to ride mass transit, so the his rich wall treet puppies have an easier time to drive arond manhattan, while working people have to wait and watch trains pass by due to battery runs...yeah... he doesn't have such good intentions, there are other ways to make transit appealing than forcing people to ride it.

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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by Mr. D - Type on Wed Jun 25 12:52:13 2008, in response to Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Wed Jun 25 12:23:40 2008.

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Not so fast, he may not be able to cut school spending. Remember there are Court ordered spending amounts in place. He really is something else.

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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by Edwards! on Wed Jun 25 12:53:56 2008, in response to Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Wed Jun 25 12:23:40 2008.

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It was all a smoke screen from the very begining...

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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Wed Jun 25 13:15:48 2008, in response to Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by Mr. D - Type on Wed Jun 25 12:52:13 2008.

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he's trying pretty hard though. I like how i don't hear any of his "down to earth guy" speeches about this situation, he is hiding somewhere. He pretends to be down to earthfor the easy things.

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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by MJF on Wed Jun 25 16:47:43 2008, in response to Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by trainsarefun on Wed Jun 25 09:59:47 2008.

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That's a fair assesment.

BTW, I met Eliot Sander twice since he came to the TA. Once last year he and his entourage rode in my cab from Far Rockaway to Jay Street (heh, how many people can fit into an R44 cab?) and once this past January at Continental. He was cordial both times and he seemed genuinely interested in what I had to say.

I hope his demeanor trickles down the chain. As you said, things could not be any worse than they were with the last Pres.

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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by Andrew Saucci on Wed Jun 25 20:15:39 2008, in response to M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 24 05:10:17 2008.

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I'm willing to pay higher fares and tolls if that is what is needed to pay for the ventilation upgrades.

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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jun 25 20:54:39 2008, in response to Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by Andrew Saucci on Wed Jun 25 20:15:39 2008.

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Good attitude by you.

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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Jun 25 21:03:37 2008, in response to M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 24 05:10:17 2008.

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The MTA could have cut back on express buses if cash was really tight and if it actually knew how to prioritize.

But IMO, the MTA should have gone after bigger projects to possibly force the congestion pricing issue again. Remember, the MTA's fuel contract expires next year.

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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jun 25 21:07:35 2008, in response to Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Jun 25 21:03:37 2008.

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MTAis already running 5 big projects, including one that has two more phases. How many more do you think it should add?

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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Wed Jun 25 21:25:49 2008, in response to Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Jun 25 21:03:37 2008.

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They don't cut express buses because bloomberg's wall street puppies would whine if he cut them. In manhattan, i always see practically empty buses, i think they should cut bus service where there is a lot of subways, like MANHATTAN.

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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Wed Jun 25 21:27:54 2008, in response to Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Wed Jun 25 21:25:49 2008.

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WRONG!

Most full time express routes serve Downtown AND Midtown Manhattan.

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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by trainsarefun on Wed Jun 25 21:28:23 2008, in response to Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Jun 25 21:03:37 2008.

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The MTA could have cut back on express buses if cash was really tight and if it actually knew how to prioritize.

Express bus runs are the holy cows of transit, I often think. I doubt that they would be cut, even routes like X51 and X68 in Queens. Of course, the last brilliant fare hike was hugely generous to express bus customers. And, one might add, that the Bloomberg Plan involved a huge expansion in express bus operations.

But IMO, the MTA should have gone after bigger projects to possibly force the congestion pricing issue again..

ESA and SAS really should have been two of the highest priorities, but that's not the way that it worked out. I would rather see MTA focus on the few most important projects rather than work on a mix of very important and less important (e.g., South Ferry, Fulton St Transit Center, Javits Center Extension).

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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Wed Jun 25 21:38:22 2008, in response to Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Wed Jun 25 21:25:49 2008.

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From what I observed in Manhattan during my brief stay there was that several local buses are practically empty during non-peak times. Heck, even an M103 and M3 during rush hour were only 1/2 full.

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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed Jun 25 21:46:03 2008, in response to Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by trainsarefun on Wed Jun 25 21:28:23 2008.

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Javits Center Extension

IIRC, isn't the bulk of the Javits extension funding from NYC bonds, not the MTA's funding or bonding capabilities?

South Ferry, Fulton St Transit Center

In a dream world, the money spent on those two projects would have paid for a Water Street Subway to connect with the IND at Grand Street and eventually, a Second Avenue Subway. Hell, for the fun factor alone, one could extend the 6 to Co-Op City or the V to a mythical Avenue C station on the lower East Side, the M to Elliot Avenue, or E to South Road if one was particularly bored.


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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Jun 25 21:54:53 2008, in response to Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed Jun 25 21:46:03 2008.

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In a dream world, the money spent on those two projects would have paid for a Water Street Subway to connect with the IND at Grand Street

That money should have been spent on the lower Manhattan portion of the SAS.

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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by trainsarefun on Wed Jun 25 21:56:48 2008, in response to Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed Jun 25 21:46:03 2008.

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IIRC, isn't the bulk of the Javits extension funding from NYC bonds, not the MTA's funding or bonding capabilities?


Not sure, but even so, the same money could have, in my view, met a more pressing need on the more important projects.

Lots of projects are 'nice'. But few are really essential.

As for the rest, fun plans!

Just no loops through Alphabet City, please....

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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Wed Jun 25 22:02:46 2008, in response to Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Wed Jun 25 21:38:22 2008.

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hence the waste, nobody rides the bus when there is a subway, BMT knew about this a LONG time ago. People are just not attracted to buses as they are to rail or even trolleybus transport.

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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed Jun 25 22:03:25 2008, in response to Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Jun 25 21:54:53 2008.

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That money should have been spent on the lower Manhattan portion of the SAS.

The Water Street Subway is the lower portion of the Second Avenue Subway. :)

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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Wed Jun 25 22:03:30 2008, in response to Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Wed Jun 25 21:27:54 2008.

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What? Do you just like typing the word "wrong"?

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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by trainsarefun on Wed Jun 25 22:04:54 2008, in response to Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed Jun 25 22:03:25 2008.

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The Water Street Subway is the lower portion of the Second Avenue Subway. :)


Only in your dreams.

In reality it's already called the Broadway Line. :)

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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed Jun 25 22:13:19 2008, in response to Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by trainsarefun on Wed Jun 25 22:04:54 2008.

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Only in your dreams.

Admittedly, I am biased in my routing selection as my mom was working in Hannover Square during the 80s, and as a pregnant woman, she apparently decided to walk from there to World Trade Center eschewing the other lines for the one-seat ride back to Jamaica 179th Street...

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Re: Delayed until when? (was: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010)

Posted by J trainloco on Wed Jun 25 22:14:26 2008, in response to Re: Delayed until when? (was: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010), posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 24 23:57:18 2008.

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With good ventilation, this shutdown time isn't as severe as it would be if the ventilation wasn't as good, and therefore maintaining the systems and improving them are, at least to me, a higher priority than hosing down platforms or several other "priorities."

I agree that ventilation is important, but station renovations are of equal importance, IMHO.

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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by J trainloco on Wed Jun 25 22:17:27 2008, in response to Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Tue Jun 24 22:10:46 2008.

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Without 'bean counters', you cannot procure new materials, repair existing property or properly maintain a staff.

Not to mention that most of MTA's analysts aren't bean counters.

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Re: Delayed until when? (was: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010)

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 25 22:26:18 2008, in response to Re: Delayed until when? (was: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010), posted by J trainloco on Wed Jun 25 22:14:26 2008.

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From what I've seen of several "renovations" I wasn't terribly impressed. Forget which midtown station it was, but the new floor was like an ice skating rink and slipped several times on it. :(

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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by The Port of Authority on Wed Jun 25 22:28:11 2008, in response to Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Wed Jun 25 21:25:49 2008.

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Umm.... no.

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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed Jun 25 22:28:20 2008, in response to Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by trainsarefun on Wed Jun 25 21:56:48 2008.

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Lots of projects are 'nice'. But few are really essential.

I've always wondered if NYCTA should have simply gone for smaller one to two station extensions as part of a larger plan instead of going for big large projects. I am not a project manager or civil engineer by trade, but I wonder if due to the high cost of the SAS, would it have been prudent to simply build each chunk of SAS, station by station. In other words, should we have instead of abandoning the project entirely in the 70s, simply regrouped to build a small segment to 72nd Street when 63rd Street opened in '88, then to 86th Street, and so on so forth as funding and engineering realities allow for? Would a similar approach have worked for the smaller cute projects that I listed? I'll leave that to those who are more competent in the field.

Just no loops through Alphabet City, please....

The tunnel would in some point in the future extend into Brooklyn to some unused shell station above a lightly used G train stop in Williamsburg...

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Re: Delayed until when? (was: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010)

Posted by J trainloco on Wed Jun 25 22:32:29 2008, in response to Re: Delayed until when? (was: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010), posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 25 22:26:18 2008.

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IMHO, Many of the renovations give the stations much cleaner looks, and some of them even do interesting things with the wall design. Some stations do have floor issues, and I thought that was why they changed what type of material was used on the floors.

If you could remember which station this was, it would help. I know a guy who works in Station Programs now ;P

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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Jun 25 22:36:04 2008, in response to Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by trainsarefun on Wed Jun 25 21:28:23 2008.

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The Bloomberg plan, however, was to try to entice the Legislature to vote for congestion pricing...but then Silver refused to vote on it, which didn't matter because the Senate Democrats left Albany to deny the necessary quorum there for an up-or-down vote.

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Re: Delayed until when? (was: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010)

Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Jun 25 22:36:25 2008, in response to Re: Delayed until when? (was: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010), posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 25 22:26:18 2008.

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You obviously haven't seen several recent renovations.

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Re: Delayed until when? (was: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010)

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 25 22:39:04 2008, in response to Re: Delayed until when? (was: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010), posted by J trainloco on Wed Jun 25 22:32:29 2008.

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It was about a year ago and it was 34th on either 6th or 8th if I remember (that was where I was going, but can't remember which now) ... and it wasn't even wet ...

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Re: Delayed until when? (was: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010)

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 25 22:40:24 2008, in response to Re: Delayed until when? (was: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010), posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Jun 25 22:36:25 2008.

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Nope, and no need to. But when they get around to redoing 205th, I'll pay it a visit. :)

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Re: Delayed until when? (was: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010)

Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Jun 25 22:41:55 2008, in response to Re: Delayed until when? (was: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010), posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 25 22:40:24 2008.

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Uh, yes, and yes need to. If you're going to post here claiming to be speaking about the type of renovations that we're saying need to be done, then you should have actually seen that type of renovation in person. Without doing so, you really shouldn't speak on the issue.

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Re: Delayed until when? (was: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010)

Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Jun 25 22:42:41 2008, in response to Re: Delayed until when? (was: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010), posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 25 22:39:04 2008.

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Neither of those is a recent renovation.

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Re: Delayed until when? (was: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010)

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 25 22:47:57 2008, in response to Re: Delayed until when? (was: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010), posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Jun 25 22:42:41 2008.

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Looked sorta McMansion bathroom tiles on the ground. They've been renovated since the last time I'd been there. Miss the old "stroked concrete" floors myself. :)

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Re: Delayed until when? (was: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010)

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 25 22:48:39 2008, in response to Re: Delayed until when? (was: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010), posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Jun 25 22:41:55 2008.

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I spoke about ventilation ... someone else brought up renovations. That I could care less about as long as a train shows up.

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Re: Delayed until when? (was: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010)

Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Wed Jun 25 22:49:31 2008, in response to Re: Delayed until when? (was: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010), posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 25 22:47:57 2008.

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Probably the tile company belongs to a friend of an executive or manager...and the TA was generous with their payings.

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Re: Delayed until when? (was: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010)

Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Jun 25 22:51:46 2008, in response to Re: Delayed until when? (was: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010), posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 25 22:48:39 2008.

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That's incorrect. You yourself spoke of renovations.

From what I've seen of several "renovations" I wasn't terribly impressed. Forget which midtown station it was, but the new floor was like an ice skating rink and slipped several times on it. :(

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Re: Delayed until when? (was: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010)

Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Jun 25 22:52:51 2008, in response to Re: Delayed until when? (was: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010), posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 25 22:47:57 2008.

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that's because you hadn't been to 34/6 and 34/8 in a very long time.

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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by J trainloco on Wed Jun 25 22:56:09 2008, in response to Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by trainsarefun on Wed Jun 25 21:28:23 2008.

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I would rather see MTA focus on the few most important projects rather than work on a mix of very important and less important (e.g., South Ferry, Fulton St Transit Center, Javits Center Extension).

Of these projects mentioned, the only 'unimportant' one is South Ferry. But since the Feds are paying....

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Re: Delayed until when? (was: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010)

Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Wed Jun 25 22:56:42 2008, in response to Re: Delayed until when? (was: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010), posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 25 22:26:18 2008.

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Yeah, there is an issue with the new tiles they use these days. I RARELY go to malls, but i went there once, and as you would say.... ***DAYUM!!!*** This was more slippery than ICE...i was like WHOA!!!(Happy Mr. Harrison?)

I don't know why new tiles are so slippery, have they forgotten people walk on them? They should use nonslip tiles like in kitchens, seriously, what a shame.

Now imagine a slippery tile with a layer of sludged toilet paper....someone might get hurt. Guess you gotta be careful

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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by J trainloco on Wed Jun 25 22:56:45 2008, in response to Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed Jun 25 22:28:20 2008.

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Your suggestion would likely cost more.

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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by AMoreira81 on Wed Jun 25 23:03:30 2008, in response to Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Wed Jun 25 21:25:49 2008.

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ACTUALLY, the major reason why the MTA didn't cut express bus service is because it is still trying to entice voters to vote for candidates supporting congestion pricing.

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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by J trainloco on Wed Jun 25 23:06:11 2008, in response to Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jun 25 21:07:35 2008.

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MTAis already running 5 big projects,

SAS, ESA, 7 to Javits..... what else?

Which project has two more phases?

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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jun 25 23:18:45 2008, in response to Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by J trainloco on Wed Jun 25 23:06:11 2008.

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SAS. Phase I is funded. The next two phases are unfunded as of yet.

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Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010

Posted by J trainloco on Wed Jun 25 23:29:31 2008, in response to Re: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010, posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jun 25 23:18:45 2008.

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I thought that SAS was a four Phase project? When were phase III and IV combined?

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Re: Delayed until when? (was: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010)

Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Jun 25 23:29:59 2008, in response to Re: Delayed until when? (was: M.T.A. Cuts Delay Some Big Projects Until 2010), posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Wed Jun 25 22:56:42 2008.

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