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| Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction (582530) | |
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| (582532) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Mar 7 18:06:28 2008, in response to Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by NEPONSIT2006 on Fri Mar 7 18:00:11 2008. "This would be the best gift we ever got," Simon said. "We are going to stay on top of this until it becomes a reality."I just wish that was true... According to Simon, the plans are part of the upcoming MTA five-year capital plan. Hopefully... |
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| (582534) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Mar 7 18:08:38 2008, in response to Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by NEPONSIT2006 on Fri Mar 7 18:00:11 2008. Any plan to re-activate this railroad is DOA, especially one which involves converting the subway in Rockaway to an LIRR line. That's pointless, selfish, and a waste of money. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (582536) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Mar 7 18:13:43 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Mar 7 18:08:38 2008. Where did you read any of that? Sander said nothing about converting subway to LIRR. The article related the line's history. Go back and reread it.The main obstacle to this plan is NIMBY; also it cannot be done until after East Side Access is complete and open for business. If noise walls are put up or the line is submerged, preferably with the tracks stacked to reduce the ROW footprint, maybe NIMBY can be overcome. |
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| (582542) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Fri Mar 7 18:20:26 2008, in response to Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by NEPONSIT2006 on Fri Mar 7 18:00:11 2008. I wonder who all those businesses who have space under the Rockaway ROW pay rent to? Like the auto repair shops in the old Ozone Park station. |
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| (582544) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Mar 7 18:22:54 2008, in response to Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by NEPONSIT2006 on Fri Mar 7 18:00:11 2008. The "plan" is not part of any 5-year plan. A planning study for the route MAY be. |
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| (582546) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Mar 7 18:23:58 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by LuchAAA on Fri Mar 7 18:20:26 2008. They are probably squatting. |
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| (582548) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Fri Mar 7 18:25:41 2008, in response to Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by NEPONSIT2006 on Fri Mar 7 18:00:11 2008. I've always thought the Rockaway ROW could be put to use.A pay toll express road from South Queens to Rego Park would've been practical. Woodhaven Blvd gets very congested, and people would pay to avoid it. |
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| (582557) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Mar 7 18:38:29 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Mar 7 18:08:38 2008. It sounds like it would be connected to the subway from what I read, but I am not clear on that. |
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| (582564) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Transit Guy on Fri Mar 7 18:55:51 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by italianstallion on Fri Mar 7 18:23:58 2008. Don't forget the school bus company illegally parking/dumping their buses on the ROW at Woodhaven. |
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| (582565) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Transit Guy on Fri Mar 7 18:57:27 2008, in response to Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by NEPONSIT2006 on Fri Mar 7 18:00:11 2008. Man this would be such a cool idea if this were to go through. I have mentioned this idea in past (so has a lot of people here)but I would love to see that happen and I would use that line a lot. Hopefully this plan can lift off somehow. |
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| (582571) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Mar 7 19:28:59 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by LuchAAA on Fri Mar 7 18:25:41 2008. SubChatters are not allowed to advocate roads! |
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| (582575) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Dan on Fri Mar 7 19:32:11 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Transit Guy on Fri Mar 7 18:57:27 2008. It makes sense in terms of distance and commuting time. But costs and political issues are big obstacles. If the LIRR "re-captures" the Rockaway branches it would be a better commute for Rockaway residents who of course would be paying much more for the ride into Manhattan. It would also give Brooklyn and Queens A & C riders more frequent and less crowded trains. |
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| (582592) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Mar 7 20:14:36 2008, in response to Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by NEPONSIT2006 on Fri Mar 7 18:00:11 2008. Aside from the multiple glaring mistakes in the article, I really don't see this happening in my lifetime. There's still a big question of LIRR or subway. If LIRR, what does it do when it reaches the A train? If subway, what does it do once it reaches Queens Blvd? |
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| (582595) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by R42 4787 on Fri Mar 7 20:17:15 2008, in response to Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by NEPONSIT2006 on Fri Mar 7 18:00:11 2008. That day would be the coming of a "true" JFK Express. |
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| (582617) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Fri Mar 7 21:03:59 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by RonInBayside on Fri Mar 7 18:13:43 2008. Sander said nothing about converting subway to LIRR.A lot of the ROW in Queens is right beside the LIRR Main Line, on either side of it. |
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| (582620) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Fri Mar 7 21:11:47 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Dan on Fri Mar 7 19:32:11 2008. The LIRR route would make the most sense, except that there are difficulties with getting trains off the peninsula and on to the ex-LIRR Rockaway Branch without interfering with NYCT service to Ozone Park.Plus, this would bring more trains into NYP. So even on the option I find more sensible, there are these logistical difficulties, plus of course the NIMBY problems, which are said to be insoluble. |
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| (582622) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Fri Mar 7 21:13:56 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Mar 7 20:14:36 2008. Queens Blvd would need another set of tracks [the super express tracks] if this line is extended from the Rockaways. |
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| (582652) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Mar 7 22:12:21 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Grand concourse on Fri Mar 7 21:13:56 2008. Not necessarily. YOu have two locals that end at Continental. One of them could be diverged to the old Rockaway Line with little trouble. The only station that would lose service would be 67th, and and Continental itself, which has plenty of service. |
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| (582736) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Nyctransitman on Fri Mar 7 23:59:22 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by trainsarefun on Fri Mar 7 21:03:59 2008. With Subway service extended from the Queens Blvd, Line I would recommend either the "V" train or the "R" train be rerouted from the 63rd Drive Station to the Beach 116th Street Station thus eliminationg the Rockaway Park shuttle. As part of this plan the train that gets extended down the Rockaway Line would not be able to serve the 67th avenue and 71st Avenue stations along the Queens Blvd. Line anymore. Big Deal. The 71st Avenue Station is also served by the "E" & "F" trains and the 67th Avenue Station doesn't get as many customers as the 63rd Drive and Woodhaven Blvd. local stations therefore one less train would not negatively affect the service to those two stations.If the LIRR is instead extended south along the Rockaway Line the LIRR can operate trains from Whitepot Junction to terminate at a renovated Aqueduct Station. At the renovated Aqueduct Station an across the platform transfer between the northbound "A" Line and the LIRR could be provided. Southbound "A" trains would be a short distance away through various stairwells , escalators and elevator connections. For more information go to http://rockawaybeachline.org/ and hear our fearless leader Lew M. Simon. |
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| (582765) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 00:43:36 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Nyctransitman on Fri Mar 7 23:59:22 2008. Even though 67st and 71st would lose the (V) or the (R) under your plan, they would regain the (G) since 71st would regain the capacity to turn those trains. |
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| (582767) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 00:47:58 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Mar 7 22:12:21 2008. The only station that would lose service would be 67th, and and Continental itself, which has plenty of service.The (G) would replace the diverged service at those stations. With the (V) or (R) turning south, the capacity problems at 71st would become moot. |
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| (582768) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Mar 8 00:48:08 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Nyctransitman on Fri Mar 7 23:59:22 2008. With Subway service extended from the Queens Blvd, Line I would recommend either the "V" train or the "R" train be rerouted from the 63rd Drive StationNot quite the trainloads of service one would want to justify the expenditures necessary on the connector alone, though. If the LIRR is instead extended south along the Rockaway Line the LIRR can operate trains from Whitepot Junction to terminate at a renovated Aqueduct Station. If LIRR could bring service into New York, then I'm inclined to think that this would be the route to take. No connector required, so it saves on money. Also, thanks for the link. This historical map was lots of fun: 
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| (582770) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 00:51:04 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by R42 4787 on Fri Mar 7 20:17:15 2008. Indeed. If a new service were to replace the (A) to Rock Park, then those excess (A) trains could "commandeer" the HB AirTrain into the terminals with a new connection. If nothing else it would end the never-ending AirTrain thread between Terrapin and Chris. That alone is reason to build it. |
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| (582775) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Mar 8 01:01:32 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 00:51:04 2008. If a new service were to replace the (A) to Rock Park, then those excess (A) trains could "commandeer" the HB AirTrain into the terminals with a new connection. If nothing else it would end the never-ending AirTrain thread between Terrapin and Chris. That alone is reason to build it.Just as soon as A trains are drastically cut down in size and use linear induction.... |
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| (582783) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 01:28:29 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Mar 8 01:01:32 2008. AirTrain was built to one day be able to easily convert to LIRR or NYCT standards. The current AirTrain cars would no longer be needed. |
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| (582784) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Sat Mar 8 01:34:27 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 01:28:29 2008. But there is no need to run a 5-car train let alone a 10-car train thru the Air Train system. |
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| (582798) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 8 03:49:54 2008, in response to Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by NEPONSIT2006 on Fri Mar 7 18:00:11 2008. Gee, I guess they shouldn't have filled in the cuts, then. |
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| (582811) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sat Mar 8 05:37:25 2008, in response to Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by NEPONSIT2006 on Fri Mar 7 18:00:11 2008. Don't hold your breath.Unfortunately the only people this would really benefit are railfans. Railfans do not like to see any abandoned trackway and always advocate revitalizing them. The proof is this forum. How many posters here advocating this would actually benefit from it? The majority of people in Rockaway would stick with the subway. Very few would pay the LIRR's fare. They already have a Rockaway Branch. It's called the "A" train. And don't forget there still is a LIRR branch in Far Rockaway. As far as the difference in times are concerned, that is only a valid argument if ones going to Penn. (or Grand Central after East Side Access) If one's going anywhere else the time advantage is offset by the additional time taking a subway, bus, cab, or walk, from Penn to their ultimate destination. As far as Kennedy Airport is concerned, that argument became moot as soon as AirTrain opened. Now, a Brooklyn train to Rockaway over the Marine Park Bridge, that would be neat!!!
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| (582812) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat Mar 8 05:39:25 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sat Mar 8 05:37:25 2008. iawtp |
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| (582813) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sat Mar 8 05:44:58 2008, in response to Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by NEPONSIT2006 on Fri Mar 7 18:00:11 2008. A better and much cheaper way to get faster Rockaway LIRR service to the city can be made by using the existing Far Rockaway LIRR branch. What about non-stop trains going from Far Rockaway without making any Nassau stops? The times would be cut substantially by being express and since it makes no Nassau stops city zone fares could be charged. |
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| (582814) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sat Mar 8 05:52:39 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Transit Guy on Fri Mar 7 18:55:51 2008. Unless I'm wrong but I always thought those buses were on the cutoff from the Atlantic Av Branch and not on the main Right of way. Can someone enlighten me? If so, it wouldn't affect the White Pot Junction use. Besides, we never determined if their buses parked there was illegal.There are many more serious obstacles than that one, like the apartment house parking lot. |
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Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Mar 8 05:56:50 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Transit Guy on Fri Mar 7 18:55:51 2008. That was John Gotti's bus company too.And do we know who the businesses along the ROW pay rent to? Like those auto shops between 101 and 103rd Aves? |
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Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Mar 8 05:58:06 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sat Mar 8 05:52:39 2008. When driving n/b on 102 st, just south of Atlantic, I see the buses on what appears to be the mainline, as soon as the Atlantic Ave platform ends. |
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| (582817) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sat Mar 8 06:00:28 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by LuchAAA on Fri Mar 7 18:25:41 2008. If you think the NIMBY's are bad with making it a train line, they would be worse making it a road. NIMBY's are always more vocal over roads than transit. |
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| (582818) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sat Mar 8 06:03:17 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 00:51:04 2008. [" If nothing else it would end the never-ending AirTrain thread between Terrapin and Chris. That alone is reason to build it."]An atomic bomb wouldn't stop those too. And to think, I started that thread by asking a simple question as to whether I'd have to pay a double fare to take AirTrain from Jamaica to the track. |
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Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat Mar 8 06:16:25 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Mar 8 05:56:50 2008. >>>>And do we know who the businesses along the ROW pay rent to?<<<<Their Landlords? |
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Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat Mar 8 06:18:52 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sat Mar 8 06:03:17 2008. You big troublemaker.AIRTrain?!?!....slowly I turn...step by step....inch by inch... |
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| (582836) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 8 08:47:35 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 00:51:04 2008. Nothing short of one of us dying would stop that thread.I never want to see another AirTrain thread again. |
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| (582838) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 8 08:49:47 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sat Mar 8 06:00:28 2008. That is true. A rail line has a train going by every so often. A road has constant cars. |
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Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 8 08:52:11 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sat Mar 8 05:37:25 2008. Unfortunately the only people this would really benefit are railfans. Railfans do not like to see any abandoned trackway and always advocate revitalizing themNot necessarily. While I don't know how useful it would be for Rockaway, it would be useful for the area between Liberty Ave and Queens Blvd. That area has no subway service, and the line would bring subway service to that section. As far as Kennedy Airport is concerned, that argument became moot as soon as AirTrain opened. PLEASE don't mention that train! Look what happened last time you brought that train up! |
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| (582843) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 8 08:52:28 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sat Mar 8 05:37:25 2008. Unfortunately the only people this would really benefit are railfans. Railfans do not like to see any abandoned trackway and always advocate revitalizing themNot necessarily. While I don't know how useful it would be for Rockaway, it would be useful for the area between Liberty Ave and Queens Blvd. That area has no subway service, and the line would bring subway service to that section. As far as Kennedy Airport is concerned, that argument became moot as soon as AirTrain opened. PLEASE don't mention that train! Look what happened last time you brought that train up! |
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| (582844) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 8 08:54:05 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 8 00:43:36 2008. And even if not, 67th is not a terribly busy station to begin with, and Continental has plenty of service. |
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| (582845) | |
Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 8 08:55:02 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat Mar 8 06:16:25 2008. Doesn't either the NYCT or NY City own the ROW? |
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Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Mar 8 09:17:08 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sat Mar 8 05:37:25 2008. The benefit for going to the Rockaways is mostly incidental, I think, so if THAT were the motivation, there would be a lot of truth to your post. The route could even terminate short of the Rockaways (details of this to be worked out), or replace all Rockaway Park shuttle runs.The main benefit of the route is to those riders on the mainland of Queens who would now have train service, if the details could be worked out. |
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Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Mar 8 10:13:56 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 8 08:54:05 2008. 67th is not a terribly busy stationThe 2002 turnstile counts by station were posted a few years back. 67th Ave ranked 157th out of 423 stations with 2,608,034 passengers. This compares with 1,398,759 for the entire Rockaway Park Branch with Broad Channel and the two Aqueduct stations thrown in for good measure. |
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Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Mar 8 10:21:58 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Mar 8 10:13:56 2008. If they did ever implement this ex-LIRR Rockaway Branch extension, then the terminal capacity freed up at Forest Hills should certainly find some good use.The problem, in my view, would shift to Manhattan or Brooklyn: where would an additional 10 tph be terminated and by what route would it go in Manhattan? Until the 2nd Av Line south of 63rd St were actually to be built and operational, where does this additional 10 tph flow go? |
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| (582868) | |
Thus Spake the LION: Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Mar 8 10:49:51 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Mar 7 18:38:29 2008. ROAR!Thus Spake the LION: LIRR service on the White Pot Lion is dumb. It kneads SUBWAY SERVICE levels and prices. It does NOT need to merge with the LIRR at White Pot! It is a four track LIRR ROW, and there *used* to be SIX tracks there. So! They could easily re-install the two outside tracks that were removed, and these can be SUBWAY TRACKS. It should not be hard to connect them to the 63rd Street (subway) tunnel for service south on Broadway via Express. It would be the (N) train, of course. It would run from Howard Beach to Coney Island via Queens.  ROAR |
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Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Mar 8 10:54:55 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sat Mar 8 05:37:25 2008. Unfortunately the only people this would really benefit are railfans. Railfans do not like to see any abandoned trackway and always advocate revitalizing them. The proof is this forum. How many posters here advocating this would actually benefit from it?Hear Here! Extend the Line all the way to RICHARDTON! ROAR! |
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Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction |
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Posted by FarRock on Sat Mar 8 11:20:10 2008, in response to Re: Re-Open LIRR 'White Pot Junction, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sat Mar 8 05:37:25 2008. As a Far Rock resident I have to say this. I would rather a subway line be built on the ROW than an LIRR branch. The LIRR branch wouldnt make sense, and I'm understand the idea of the branch correctly, wouldn't this eliminate the (A) south of Liberty Junction?We've got an LIRR Branch already and its gives a quicker ride to midtown, plus its right across the street from me, but the (A) is vital to Far Rock. It saves money and time to go to certain places that the LIRR can't reach. It's those who live farther out in The Rock who don't have LIRR access. They dont need it, they can stick with the (A) or take the Q35 to Flatbush and get the (2) or (5). |
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