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NYCT MDBF |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Fri Feb 1 10:18:26 2008 On the main MTA page:During 2007, the average subway car ran nearly 150,000 miles before needing service. |
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Re: NYCT MDBF |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Feb 1 16:29:41 2008, in response to NYCT MDBF, posted by trainsarefun on Fri Feb 1 10:18:26 2008. Geez, and my car needs an oil change every 5,000 miles. |
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Re: NYCT MDBF |
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Posted by Mr. D - Type on Fri Feb 1 17:02:50 2008, in response to Re: NYCT MDBF, posted by italianstallion on Fri Feb 1 16:29:41 2008. Your car`s oil & filter should be changed every 3000 miles - not every 5000. |
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Re: NYCT MDBF |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Feb 1 18:43:48 2008, in response to Re: NYCT MDBF, posted by Mr. D - Type on Fri Feb 1 17:02:50 2008. That's not what my manual says. Today's cars need fewer oil changes. |
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Re: NYCT MDBF |
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Posted by Fred G on Fri Feb 1 18:46:38 2008, in response to Re: NYCT MDBF, posted by Mr. D - Type on Fri Feb 1 17:02:50 2008. No, 5k is fine.your pal, Fred |
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Re: NYCT MDBF |
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Posted by David on Fri Feb 1 18:50:42 2008, in response to Re: NYCT MDBF, posted by italianstallion on Fri Feb 1 16:29:41 2008. Apples and oranges -- the statistic is that the subway cars break down about every 150,000 miles, not that they are maintained about every 150,000 miles. As "Train Dude" can attest, they are maintained far more often than every 150,000 miles -- about every 10,000 miles is more like it. They're inspected, and whatever needs replenishing gets replenished.David |
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Re: NYCT MDBF |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Feb 1 18:57:19 2008, in response to Re: NYCT MDBF, posted by David on Fri Feb 1 18:50:42 2008. I guess people can't see a joke anymore without an emoticon. |
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Re: NYCT MDBF |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Feb 1 19:01:08 2008, in response to Re: NYCT MDBF, posted by David on Fri Feb 1 18:50:42 2008. Depends on the car types. The better ones get close to 190,000. But 150K is pretty good. The passengers beat the stuffing out of them, crowd them, stomp them, dump their food and trash in them, scratch the windows, dump stuff on the tracks they use, pull the emergency brake handle; then there's the snow, ice, rain, autumn leaves and sections of jointed track.It's like being a professional football player 365 days a year. |
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Re: NYCT MDBF |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Fri Feb 1 19:25:23 2008, in response to Re: NYCT MDBF, posted by Mr. D - Type on Fri Feb 1 17:02:50 2008. In the manuals, the schedules usually depend on the rate of (hard) mileage put on the car, so, e.g., my car's manual prescribes two different maintenance schedules depending on the conditions under which the car is being operated. |
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Re: NYCT MDBF |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sat Feb 2 01:29:04 2008, in response to NYCT MDBF, posted by trainsarefun on Fri Feb 1 10:18:26 2008. Not quite! MDBF stands for Mean Distance Between Failure. For general purpopes it is the total mileage for a given set of cars;* The entire fleet * An entire contract of cars * An entire shop fleet for a given time period; divided by the number of "in service" mechanical failures that result in delays. For example; R-44s travel 1.6 million miles per month. If they have 8 charged delays in that same month the MDBF = 1,600,000/8 or 200,000 miles. Note: Based on previous similar threads let me say; I'm not interested in whether you agree with this measure or not. It is what it is. |
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Re: NYCT MDBF |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Feb 2 01:30:28 2008, in response to Re: NYCT MDBF, posted by Train Dude on Sat Feb 2 01:29:04 2008. So these are not necessarily evets that result in a visit to the repair shop. |
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Re: NYCT MDBF |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sat Feb 2 01:45:51 2008, in response to Re: NYCT MDBF, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Feb 2 01:30:28 2008. Not always. For example, a car has door trouble and the conductor has to cut out a door. If it takes him more than a minute or 2, then there will likely be a charged delay but the car may not come to the shop immediately. On the other hand, a vandal kicks a door off it's track. That train will come out of service for repairs but it will not be an equipment charge that will effect mdbf. |
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Re: NYCT MDBF |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Feb 2 01:57:52 2008, in response to Re: NYCT MDBF, posted by Train Dude on Sat Feb 2 01:45:51 2008. Aha. MDBF refers ro a fault not purposefully induced. I general, such a fault would eventually require a repair shop visit.Except: The R142 A/C units are designed to come out at the terminal. Bombardier and Vostermans/Multifan designed a unit that can be swapped out in an hour without a trip to the shop. I assume the Kawasaki cars have an equivalent setup. Source: IBT, Kansas city and MultifanUSA, Bloomington IL |
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Re: NYCT MDBF |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Feb 2 09:14:47 2008, in response to Re: NYCT MDBF, posted by Train Dude on Sat Feb 2 01:29:04 2008. Thanks for the clarification; it clears up my notion of what MDBF is and explains why some other systems, e.g., WMATA, use MDBD (Mean Distance Between Delays) as their acronym, since Failures as chargeable delays and Delays likely have more or less a 1:1 correspondence. |
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Re: NYCT MDBF |
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Posted by Jeff H. on Sun Feb 3 00:13:26 2008, in response to Re: NYCT MDBF, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Feb 2 01:57:52 2008. The R142 A/C units are designed to come out at the terminal. Bombardier andVostermans/Multifan designed a unit that can be swapped out in an hour without a trip to the shop. I assume the Kawasaki cars have an equivalent setup. You may have misunderstood the source you quoted. The A/C units are modular and are designed to be swapped out quickly in a _barn_, i.e. it is not a main-shop move. But really, how could you expect something which is mounted in the roof to be swapped at a "terminal"? |
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Re: NYCT MDBF |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Feb 3 01:39:16 2008, in response to Re: NYCT MDBF, posted by Jeff H. on Sun Feb 3 00:13:26 2008. According to Multifan (and Imay have misunderstood them), workers can remove the unit and swap it with another in under an hour using ordinary tools, nothing special. I was actually asked to write some copy for an article on this. I wrote the copy this way and sent it for review by Vostermans for accuracy. They looked at my proposed text, said it was fine, made one minor change to the way I referred to the brand name, and that was it. |
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Re: NYCT MDBF |
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Posted by Jeff H. on Sun Feb 3 01:55:51 2008, in response to Re: NYCT MDBF, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Feb 3 01:39:16 2008. I'm curious, why were you writing "copy" about this?Maybe they are talking about some other component, like a blower motor or a filter. The whole idea of the new tech HVAC systems was they were an integrated unit. If you have a car with a bad HVAC, swap the entire thing out...no messing with individual contactors, split system compressors, refrigerant lines, etc. The theory was nice...it took a while for transit to actually equip the running maintenance barns with the proper overhead crane to do the swap outs. |
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Re: NYCT MDBF |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Feb 3 02:01:24 2008, in response to Re: NYCT MDBF, posted by Jeff H. on Sun Feb 3 01:55:51 2008. No, they are talking about the roof-mounted unit itself. I submitted my prose for review; they said OK. If they didn't agree with it they could have told me.I was asked to write some copy because I do science and medical writing, because the distributor who supplied the a/c to Bombardier is here in Kansas City, and the on-line magazine is here. John (monorail) supplied a photo. The issue with the article (it's part marketing piece, aimed at grease monkeys) is supposed to come out now...they are still on the Dec-Jan issue. When it appears I'll post it here. |
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Re: NYCT MDBF |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Feb 3 07:12:30 2008, in response to Re: NYCT MDBF, posted by Train Dude on Sat Feb 2 01:29:04 2008. R-44s travel 1.6 million miles per month.Are those revenue miles? |
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Re: NYCT MDBF |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 3 07:33:07 2008, in response to Re: NYCT MDBF, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Feb 3 07:12:30 2008. Does it MATTER to a gear box? :) |
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Re: NYCT MDBF |
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Posted by Fred G on Sun Feb 3 07:44:34 2008, in response to Re: NYCT MDBF, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 3 07:33:07 2008. No but it does to a cash box :Dyour pal, Fred |
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Re: NYCT MDBF |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Feb 3 09:23:57 2008, in response to Re: NYCT MDBF, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Feb 3 07:12:30 2008. Because of the way mileage is counted, yes, those are only revenue miles. |
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Re: NYCT MDBF |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Feb 3 10:49:50 2008, in response to Re: NYCT MDBF, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Feb 3 07:12:30 2008. No, frequent flyer miles. The R44s use their door chimes to politely ask the flight attendant or gate agent to add each flight to their accounts. 8-) |
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Re: NYCT MDBF |
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Posted by Mr. D - Type on Mon Feb 4 09:54:54 2008, in response to Re: NYCT MDBF, posted by italianstallion on Fri Feb 1 18:43:48 2008. If you believe what the manual says word for word, then I have a bridge for sale. Ever heard of the word sludge ? It`s what the manufacturers don`t tell you that`s scary. I have been working on cars & trucks for over 35 years & 5000 miles on regular oil is too much especially since the oil today is so thin as it is. Now since you don`t specify, if you are using synthetic oil then it`s okay. But you feel free to do what you want & when you are told you need an engine at 60, 000 to 70,000. |
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