Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by RonInBayside* on Sat Sep 8 17:42:54 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 8 17:28:13 2007.* "The E turns crosstown at Fitty-turd Street. " A good thing, since 42nd St already has two train services, both of which serve the PABT adequately. A moving sidewalk would help, though, in the passageway to PABT.

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sat Sep 8 17:49:30 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Sep 8 17:42:54 2007.* 42nd St already has two train services, both of which serve the PABT adequately PABT is not at Times Square. As Hamlet might say, "therefore, thou liest."

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Rail Blue* on Sat Sep 8 17:59:09 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 8 17:28:13 2007.* Deceptive statement. The PABT is on 42nd Street. The E turns crosstown at Fitty-turd Street. It is not a 42nd Street crosstown train, which the PABT has needed since it was built. And the (7) train is very deep and doesn't have any stations east of GCT. So it's not a very good 42nd Street crosstown. LRT/BRT would be better for getting from the PABT to most locations on 42nd St.

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Broadway Lion* on Sat Sep 8 18:02:51 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 8 15:22:15 2007.* Forget about "hard working people"! Ain't nothing going to put all transit workers out of work overnight. Even the conductors are not going to go anywhere anytime soon. When and if the system morphs, it will be a slow morph, and so people will not loose jobs as much as there will be fewer jobs in the future. But this too is a moot point, for there will be other jobs. People will always be able to find useful and profitable work, assuming that they are able. Remember this: More people are now working in America than ever before in our history! Nobody wants to make things harder for working people, nor to cause them to loose their jobs, bet everybody does want VALUE for the money that they spend (and earn). Yes. Jobs will change. But their will always be good jobs. ROAR

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by RonInBayside* on Sat Sep 8 18:05:53 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 8 17:49:30 2007.* The definition of service to (destination) does not require the (destination) to be exactly at the station. Try again.

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Broadway Lion* on Sat Sep 8 18:09:44 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Sep 8 17:42:54 2007.* The question is "How many FLUSHING passengers ALSO want the PABT?" And is that enough to justify a new stop. Most people that use PABT are COMMUTERS, and they are headed to destinations in MANHATTAN. The Flushing Line will not do them any good. The Shuttle will. The (E) train can get them to the LEX just as easily as the (7) can Going downtown, the (A) (C) (E) will do just fine for them, but if they want something else, the rest of the IRT and BMT services are just one block away. Now stop beating on this horse : It is already dead! ROAR

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sat Sep 8 18:17:06 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Sep 8 18:09:44 2007.* Most people that use PABT are COMMUTERS, and they are headed to destinations in MANHATTAN. The Flushing Line will not do them any good No? Not for going to locations on 42^nd Street on the east side? Vade retro, Satanas.

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Broadway Lion* on Sat Sep 8 18:20:28 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Sep 8 16:14:07 2007.* Pounding from geese is one thing. Pounding form orcs is quite another. ROAR

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by AMoreira81* on Sat Sep 8 18:32:43 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Rail Blue on Sat Sep 8 16:57:08 2007.* However, has this system (premature shutting) resulted in any injury yet?

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sat Sep 8 18:32:43 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Sep 8 18:05:53 2007.* The definition of service to (destination) does not require the (destination) to be exactly at the station More lies.

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sat Sep 8 18:37:16 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Rail Blue on Sat Sep 8 17:59:09 2007.* the (7) train is very deep and doesn't have any stations east of GCT. So it's not a very good 42nd Street crosstown If they're building this limited-use extension and were able to find the money for these inane platform doors, they can find the money for escalators/elevators and additional stops east of GCT (which will be necessary especially in the event of the SAS coming "online"). Further, there's the matter of service further east on the 7 train. Flexibility is the word here. If people are getting the E train, they'll also use the 7. LRT/BRT would be better for getting from the PABT to most locations on 42nd St BRT is anathema to this forum (and I'm citing train/bus instead of bus/bus). As for the much-touted 42^nd Street LRT, which I wouldn't mind, I'll believe it when I see it.

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by RonInBayside* on Sat Sep 8 18:54:34 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Sep 8 18:32:43 2007.* Yes. Imagined shutting has given Olog minor heart attacks.

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sat Sep 8 19:21:59 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Sep 8 18:32:43 2007.* Yes, to the taxpayers' pocketbooks. Gotta love the nanny state.

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Sat Sep 8 19:29:14 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 8 18:37:16 2007. You're joking right? The price of platform edge/screen doors is probably only a small fraction of the price they would have to pay for additional stops east of GCT.

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 8 19:45:27 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Sat Sep 8 19:29:14 2007. The price of platform edge/screen doors is probably only a small fraction of the price they would have to pay for additional stops east of GCT Think about continued maintenance over the years (the difference between "spend money now or spend money later"). Initial capital cost is but a fraction of what the total cost will be; actual stations are not as maintenance-intensive and far more useful.

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by G1Ravage* on Sat Sep 8 21:02:37 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 8 17:32:44 2007.* A lot. I'm not in support of it. Just mentioning other benefits.

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Sep 8 21:19:13 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Sep 8 11:54:28 2007. Yes it is a waste of money.

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors

Posted by Rail Blue on Sat Sep 8 21:19:15 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Sep 8 18:32:43 2007.

However, has this system (premature shutting) resulted in any injury yet?

Yes. Mr Michael Strzelicki of Transport for London made the following statement to the House of Commons Transport Select Committee on Wednesday 22nd January 2003:

The safety risks are reduced by platform-edge doors*, for fairly obvious reasons. They do not go away entirely, because they are trapped in the platform-edge doors as opposed to just the train doors. However, we have had very, very few incidents and no significant injuries as a result of them yet. The prospects for retro-fitting those doors across the rest of the rather old network are not good at all. There is no business case, on safety or other grounds at the moment, for retro-fitting them.

This of course, once you cut out the dreadful UK Civilservicese, implies that there had been a number of incidents involving PEDs, causing injuries that TfL has not deemed "significant". The committee failed to ask Mr Strzelicki what TfL's definition of this term was. (Sadly, this sort of thing is all too common for parliamentary scrutiny.)

* What's really funny is that TfL's other man sent to the same committee, Mr Paul Godier, had just stated: "The platform-edge doors, therefore, do not add a lot to improve safety, given our style of managing that situation. They have other advantages, but I will ask Mr Strzelecki to say a bit more about that."

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Sep 8 21:20:42 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Sep 8 11:08:07 2007. IAWTP

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Sep 8 21:21:20 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Rail Blue on Sat Sep 8 14:38:56 2007. gross stupidity

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sat Sep 8 21:23:07 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Sep 8 18:02:51 2007.* Forget about "hard working people" Never. Like I said before, vade retro. there will be other jobs Sure; just not in this country. But you don't have to worry about that, do you comrade?

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Terrapin Station* on Sat Sep 8 21:26:07 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 8 15:23:32 2007.* Incorrect. The Times Square stop of the (7) is very convenient to PABT. Build another stop for it would be a complete and utter waste. All you need to do today is go up one level from the platform and then walk through the less than 1 block long corridor and then you are at PABT. It is a very good connection.

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Terrapin Station* on Sat Sep 8 21:27:26 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 8 17:31:08 2007.* No, it is $5 per ride.

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sat Sep 8 21:29:08 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Sep 8 21:26:07 2007.* No, I'm correct. The connection is miserable.

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Sep 8 21:29:17 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Sat Sep 8 15:55:58 2007. Platform Screen Doors are a valuable amenity to have... No they aren't.

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Terrapin Station* on Sat Sep 8 21:30:17 2007, in response to (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by G1Ravage on Sat Sep 8 03:20:30 2007.* The (7) line extension stations will have AirTrain-style platform doors. fcking sht I hope it doesn't come to be.

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Rail Blue* on Sat Sep 8 21:30:49 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 8 18:37:16 2007.* If they're building this limited-use extension and were able to find the money for these inane platform doors, they can find the money for escalators/elevators and additional stops east of GCT (which will be necessary especially in the event of the SAS coming "online"). I doubt it. The line has to get under the East River, so it probably doesn't have any level enough spots for retrofitting a station on that section. Further, there's the matter of service further east on the 7 train. Flexibility is the word here. If people are getting the E train, they'll also use the 7. As Manhattan goes, the (E) train is shallower and has half a mile further before it reaches the East River. This mitigates the time taken to get to platform level and back up again. As for Queens, the stations in question are really Vernon-Jackson and 33rd through 69th. I don't expect them to be big destinations for people arriving at the PABT. BRT is anathema to this forum (and I'm citing train/bus instead of bus/bus). Bus lanes and signal priority may well be a good thing for the M42 and M104. BRT is just a convenient term. As for the much-touted 42nd Street LRT, which I wouldn't mind, I'll believe it when I see it. The problem there is that the M104 would probably need tramstitution as well as the M42. This increases the mileage considerably.

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by The Port of Authority on Sat Sep 8 21:42:59 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 8 17:32:07 2007. Whatever. I highly doubt that making note of a similar metro installation is "anti-American."

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by The Port of Authority on Sat Sep 8 21:45:20 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Sep 8 16:14:07 2007. Yes, but you can't assume that without basing it on how it works here.

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Broadway Lion* on Sat Sep 8 23:43:28 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 8 21:23:07 2007.* Nah... I'm a CAPITALIST. The Commies are over on the left side. ROAR

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Broadway Lion* on Sat Sep 8 23:44:50 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 8 18:17:06 2007.* Heh... You can WALK there in a few minutes. There are also buses if you have all day to sit on one. ROAR

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Sep 8 23:50:04 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Sat Sep 8 19:29:14 2007. There is another major cost to platform edge doors that we have not yet considered. Suppose they take 3' of platform space... on each side of the platform! Can these platforms AFFORD to be SIX FEET narrower than they are now? This is (or may be) nice if you are building a new station from scratch, but is a decidedly limited option for existing platforms. ROAR

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by The Port of Authority on Sat Sep 8 23:54:33 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Sep 8 23:50:04 2007. I don't think they take up 3 feet. Probably somewhere between 1 and 1/2 feet, but not 3.

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Terrapin Station* on Sun Sep 9 00:12:22 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 8 21:29:08 2007.* No, you're not correct.

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sun Sep 9 00:21:45 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Sep 9 00:12:22 2007.* Ah well; it's a matter of opinion, then. Unless and/or until they build a 7-train station adjacent to PABT, I cannot prove my point.

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Bill from Maspeth* on Sun Sep 9 01:08:55 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by G1Ravage on Sat Sep 8 16:26:31 2007.* Horrible idea for outdoor stations. They'll fail especially during inclement weather. They'll freeze up with ice and snow all over them and not open and close and open partially.

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sun Sep 9 01:26:53 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Sep 8 23:44:50 2007.* You can WALK there in a few minutes To the 7 station? No, it takes more than a few minutes. There are also buses if you have all day to sit on one The M42 does not go to places like Queensborough Plaza or Woodside.

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sun Sep 9 01:27:31 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Sep 8 21:27:26 2007.* I was adding the subway fare on top.

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Terrapin Station* on Sun Sep 9 01:34:22 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Sep 9 01:26:53 2007.* It's only a few minutes.

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Terrapin Station* on Sun Sep 9 01:34:36 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Sep 9 01:27:31 2007.* You shouldn't.

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by stephenk* on Sun Sep 9 01:57:54 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Sep 9 01:08:55 2007.* "Horrible idea for outdoor stations. They'll fail especially during inclement weather. They'll freeze up with ice and snow all over them and not open and close and open partially." Do you actually have any proof for that statement? Outdoor platform edge doors operate in Japan which can get pretty cold and snowy in Winter!

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sun Sep 9 02:10:33 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by stephenk on Sun Sep 9 01:57:54 2007.* How often do they maintain them?

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by stephenk* on Sun Sep 9 02:20:06 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Sep 9 02:10:33 2007.* Probably quite often, as the Japanese seem to like preventative maintenance, rather than fixing things when they are broken!

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sun Sep 9 03:31:49 2007, in response to (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by G1Ravage on Sat Sep 8 03:20:30 2007.* Just thought of something . . . can't run these beauties to the Javits Center if those kind of doors are going in.

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by WillD* on Sun Sep 9 03:46:18 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Sep 9 01:26:53 2007.* This from the person for whom the LIRR LIC terminal was "right next to" the 7 train? And incidentally the E train from 42nd PABT on the IND 8th Ave line does go to Woodside. But since when do you give a damn about people who come into NYC by bus? Shouldn't they have ridden NJT to HOB and caught PATH to 33rd?

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sun Sep 9 04:08:49 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by WillD on Sun Sep 9 03:46:18 2007.* This from the person for whom the LIRR LIC terminal was "right next to" the 7 train? It is right next to the 7 train. Blocks in LIC aren't like avenue blocks in Manhattan. incidentally the E train from 42nd PABT on the IND 8th Ave line does go to Woodside Nope. Woodside is 61^st and Roosevelt. Best imported food anywhere, British Isles-style. E train goes through Jackson Heights. since when do you give a damn about people who come into NYC by bus? Shouldn't they have ridden NJT to HOB and caught PATH to 33rd? This is Subchat; I'm not going to discuss bus in here when it isn't in the context of connecting to train. HOB and PATH to 33^rd is a way closer connection than PABT to 7 train. (Don't forget about HOB to Route 126 Bus.) And the point is that with the extension, the trains will be running right underneath PABT, therefore to not take advantage and force people to "follow the railroad", in essence, is folly.

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by WillD* on Sun Sep 9 04:10:58 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Sep 9 03:31:49 2007.* So improvise. "All passengers wishing to exit at Javits please walk to the center doors of cars XXX, YYY, and ZZZ" or something like that. It's not like they usually let everyone on and off through all doors on in-service platforms anyway.

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sun Sep 9 04:15:17 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by WillD on Sun Sep 9 04:10:58 2007.* We'll let you organize it. Try not to let it become a stampede . . .

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by AMoreira81* on Sun Sep 9 09:29:38 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Rail Blue on Sat Sep 8 14:38:56 2007.* At the cost of the station, the city blew it here, where the bond money could have been used for much better things which I have mentioned previously.

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Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors
Posted by Rail Blue* on Sun Sep 9 10:10:36 2007, in response to Re: (7) line extension stations will feature platform-to-ceiling doors, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Sep 9 01:26:53 2007.* The M42 does not go to places like Queensborough Plaza or Woodside. Oh teh n0es! You might have to use IND Queens Plaza or transfer at 74/Roosevelt...

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