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| (337749) | |
Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Palal on Mon Nov 13 14:59:31 2006 Hi Everyone,I was in DC this past weekend. While taking pictures, I was detained (and questioned) by police who seem to not know their policy about photography. I wrote up an incident report here: http://palal.net/wmata_incident.html I'm currently trying to get a copy of the officer's report (if there is a report) and then I'm considering writing to WMATA customer service. Any other suggestions? Thanks! -Alex |
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| (337753) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Nov 13 15:19:48 2006, in response to Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Palal on Mon Nov 13 14:59:31 2006. Wow. Sounds like you did everything right and were still hassled. It seems like police and other authorities are confused about picture taking on nearly every system. |
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Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Nov 13 15:30:02 2006, in response to Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Palal on Mon Nov 13 14:59:31 2006. Do it..Fascist D.C! |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (337764) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Nov 13 15:40:59 2006, in response to Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Palal on Mon Nov 13 14:59:31 2006. It seems ironic you would post this...I had actually gotten warned by a passenger that Metro Transit Police tend to do just that (and ended up in a similar situation in Anacostia on the bus side---in the station, however.)However, until all facts are presented, I will withhold opinion. (In my case, when I took Metrorail pics, I would then get on the immediate next train, so that the "loitering" excuse would not be used.) |
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| (337766) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Nov 13 15:41:54 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Edwards! on Mon Nov 13 15:30:02 2006. You don't even know what fascist means. |
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Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Nov 13 15:53:14 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Nov 13 15:41:54 2006. And I suppose you do..Hey when did you stop working at the 81? |
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| (337777) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Nov 13 15:54:22 2006, in response to Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Palal on Mon Nov 13 14:59:31 2006. Did you have printouts of the email from WMATA and the official policy from the website with you during the incident? |
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| (337780) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Nov 13 15:57:50 2006, in response to Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Palal on Mon Nov 13 14:59:31 2006. I think you would have been much better off just moving on and going to another station or coming back later. This seems to be an isolated incident, I can't recall the last time I had trouble taking photos on the Metro.Do note that photography at the Pentagon station is prohibited. |
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| (337783) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Nov 13 16:02:24 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Nov 13 15:57:50 2006. I think you would have been much better off just moving on and going to another station or coming back later.I disagree. Would have been better off having the WMATA email and printout of the official policy with him and then standing his ground like he did. He would have prevailed. |
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| (337787) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Nov 13 16:06:10 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Nov 13 16:02:24 2006. He didn't have the printout. As a result, I think he should have taken my approach.I don't carry the printout with me when I ride Metro as it is. Like I said, I almost never have trouble. |
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| (337789) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Mon Nov 13 16:14:57 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Nov 13 16:02:24 2006. Not everyone is that well prepared. |
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Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Nov 13 16:47:56 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Nov 13 16:02:24 2006. Where is that official printout (or rather, where can I obtain it)? (I will likely need this come spring, when I visit DC again.) |
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| (337812) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Nov 13 17:06:46 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Nov 13 16:06:10 2006. Yes, without the printout, there is not much you can do. |
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| (337813) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Nov 13 17:07:30 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Nov 13 16:47:56 2006. Linked in the guy's story on his own website. |
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| (337814) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Nov 13 17:07:50 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Grand Concourse on Mon Nov 13 16:14:57 2006. Well they should be if they don't want this to happen. |
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| (337819) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Nov 13 17:12:46 2006, in response to Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Palal on Mon Nov 13 14:59:31 2006. If it took place at the Pentagon, then I can understand (I have taken pictures with the Pentagon at my back, but off the property, without incident). |
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| (337822) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Nov 13 17:17:08 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Nov 13 17:12:46 2006. Do so at your own risk. If you come here and post your experience with that if they don't like it, I'm not sure you will get much support. |
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| (337825) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Nov 13 17:18:32 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Nov 13 17:17:08 2006. Ahhh, been there, done that, moved on...Crystal City and the Pike next time for me. |
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Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by South Ferry on Mon Nov 13 18:04:12 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Nov 13 17:07:50 2006. IAWTP. |
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| (337895) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Mon Nov 13 19:10:31 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by South Ferry on Mon Nov 13 18:04:12 2006. I take it you have your print out handy then? |
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Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by New Brunswick Station on Mon Nov 13 19:17:23 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Nov 13 17:07:50 2006. Just like one should have his or her driver's license and registration when driving. |
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| (337920) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Palal on Mon Nov 13 19:58:11 2006, in response to Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Palal on Mon Nov 13 14:59:31 2006. > Did you have printouts of the email from WMATA and the official policy from the website with you during the incident?No, that was my biggest mistake. I assumed that since I didn't have a problem two years ago, I wouldn't have one now. Although the police officer basically would have made another excuse to prevent me from taking pictures. > I think you would have been much better off just moving on and going to another station or coming back later. This seems to be an isolated incident, I can't recall the last time I had trouble taking photos on the Metro. If the policy allows me to take pictures, why should I have moved on? Are we living in a totalitarian society? While I realize it's become more totalitarian filled with fear after 9/11, that doesn't make it right. I'm not fighting for a cause, I simply want for others to follow the same laws that I'm subject to. Oh, and as most will probably here will agree with me, banning photography does not increase safety in general. > Do note that photography at the Pentagon station is prohibited. I'm aware of that :). Thanks :). |
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| (337925) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Mon Nov 13 20:11:55 2006, in response to Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Palal on Mon Nov 13 14:59:31 2006. I like to call it getting "swarmed". |
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| (337941) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Nov 13 21:06:27 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Palal on Mon Nov 13 19:58:11 2006. Ok. |
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| (337944) | |
Re: Myth about subway picture-taking |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Nov 13 21:13:21 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Palal on Mon Nov 13 19:58:11 2006. "Oh, and as most will probably here will agree with me, banning photography does not increase safety in general."True. The idea that picture-taking causes danger (by aiding terrorism or whatever) is a myth. In fact, it probably reduces safety. In the last few years, subway riders used cellphone cameras to take pictures of perverts and "swipers" and provided them to NYPD. In at least two cases I know of, and possibly more, this led to arrests. In turn, a certain percentage of misdmeanor arrests will reveal a criminal with open warrants for murder, robbery or other felonies, and taking that person out of the subway and into jail is very important. Without passengers' help (and their picture evidence!) it's harder to get that done. Encouraging people to use cameras responsibly in the subway increases safety. |
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| (337999) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Nov 14 00:08:16 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Nov 13 16:06:10 2006. That is why I feel that there is more to the story than what is being told. |
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| (338005) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Nov 14 00:14:14 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Nov 14 00:08:16 2006. I don't feel that there is more than what is being told. On the 2003 SubTalk Field Trip to Washington, DC we were yelled at by a manager at one station for taking photos. |
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| (338007) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Nov 14 00:19:12 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Nov 14 00:14:14 2006. I totally forgot about that.In October, a worker tried getting a coworker to talk to me because I had been taking photos at Branch Avenue. Nothing happened. The worst I ever had was a T/O who asked me if I was from Iraq or Afghanistan. We rode his train on the 2003 trip too, and he was still an ass, even though we never photographed him. |
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| (338013) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Nov 14 00:35:46 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Nov 14 00:19:12 2006. Hey, if you're taking pictures you MUST be from Iraq or Afghanistan. Otherwise, you'd have been using a sketch pad!8-) |
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Re: Myth about subway picture-taking |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Nov 14 02:32:48 2006, in response to Re: Myth about subway picture-taking, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Nov 13 21:13:21 2006.  Quite true. Of course, I've had SEPTA cops tell me that the 9/11 hijackers could have taken photos on recon missions before the attack, even though there's no reason to suspect that they did. When I invoked the newspaper stories and information that's been released, as well as common sense, he still maintained that photography was suspicious because it could be a form of terrorist recon, and insisted he would have arrested me if I were taking pics underground. I'm not sure I'd take that at face value though. Incidentally, he also threatened to arrest me if I took transit pics from public property. (I believe his exact words were "from four blocks away.") I missed an otherwise great pic of a regional train at 30th Street station from the street below because I didn't want to run the risk of arrest, despite the fact that his order was illegal. On the plus side, the Broad Street Subway crew members were very nice. When they saw me taking pics, they asked if I was a railfan. When I said yes, one asked: "You're from New York, right?" When I answered in the affirmative with some surprise, he said: "All the railfans are from New York." I also told me the model type of the BSS cars (B4, right?) and asked: "Why are you taking so many pictures? They all look the same!" Oops, sorry to hijack your thread. |
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Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Tue Nov 14 10:30:29 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Nov 13 15:57:50 2006. I think you would have been much better off just moving on and going to another station or coming back later. This seems to be an isolated incident, I can't recall the last time I had trouble taking photos on the Metro.Oren, This was not an isolated incident. I have been confronted 3 of the last 4 times I have been on metrorail by WMATA employees that don’t know the policy. The last incident happened on the same day in the same station more then 20 minutes after I took this picture. I was first confronted by a station cleaner as I was waiting for the next Green line train to Greenbelt at the 4 car stop marker that called the station manager to the platform. I firmly and politely stood my ground and told the station manager that their was no and never has been a policy prohibiting casual photography on WMATA property and that I understood here concern. In this last incident I was confronted after taking pictures on the platform followed by a series of pictures of and from the mezzanine in the full view of the same station manager and few pictures as I was waiting for the next Green line train to arrive. No request was made of me to wait for the police to arrive and inquire as to why I was taking pictures. When the next Green line train arrived I boarded and left the station. Only 4 people knew that the above linked picture was taken prior to it being publishing now. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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| (338111) | |
Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Nov 14 10:48:57 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Sand Box John on Tue Nov 14 10:30:29 2006. Only 4 people knew that the above linked picture was taken prior to it being publishing now.O...M...G....!!11 |
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Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Nov 14 10:49:33 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Sand Box John on Tue Nov 14 10:30:29 2006. Thank you for showing that a problem still exists on WMATA. I will still always carry the rules with me when I visit. |
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Re: Myth about subway picture-taking |
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Posted by Palal on Tue Nov 14 22:43:02 2006, in response to Re: Myth about subway picture-taking, posted by Nilet on Tue Nov 14 02:32:48 2006. No worries.I didn't have problems in Philly, although when I asked some cops, who were standing around, they said that you could take pictures of Septa vehicles on public property but not on Septa property. According to nycsubway, permits are required. |
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Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Palal on Tue Nov 14 22:44:39 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Nov 14 00:08:16 2006. The incident report on the site was written up about 20 mins after I got to my hotel that same day. If you are wondering about something in particular, go ahead and ask. I feel that I provided an accurate (and objective) description of what happened. |
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Re: Myth about subway picture-taking |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Tue Nov 14 22:45:42 2006, in response to Re: Myth about subway picture-taking, posted by Palal on Tue Nov 14 22:43:02 2006. Even if SEPTA has a permit requirement, they don't really enforce it. I've visited SEPTA on three different occasions and haven't had any bad experiences, even with taking pictures in full view of SEPTA employees. |
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Re: Myth about subway picture-taking |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Nov 14 22:52:03 2006, in response to Re: Myth about subway picture-taking, posted by Palal on Tue Nov 14 22:43:02 2006. I've found no support for a SEPTA photo permit in the Pennsylvania State Code. Furthermore my emails to SEPTA on the issue have gone unanswered. As such, I see no reason to NOT take non-flash photos on SEPTA property. And in fact, every time I visit I DO take photos on SEPTA property. |
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Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Nov 14 22:52:31 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Palal on Tue Nov 14 22:44:39 2006. Ignore Adam. |
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Re: Myth about subway picture-taking |
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Posted by Easy on Tue Nov 14 23:04:23 2006, in response to Re: Myth about subway picture-taking, posted by The Port of Authority on Tue Nov 14 22:45:42 2006. Have you had problems anyhwere? I remember you saying that you never had any problems in LA (and Boston?). |
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Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Tue Nov 14 23:24:25 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Nov 14 10:48:57 2006. The 4 people were Oren, myself, the one person that was in the same car when I took the picture and someone at WMATA I queried as to what events had happen that lead up to making the taking of the picture possible. I was satisfied with explanation given.John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Tue Nov 14 23:24:27 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Nov 14 10:49:33 2006. Thank you for showing that a problem still exists on WMATA. I will still always carry the rules with me when I visit.I think I might start carrying a copy of this picture along with a couple of other I took back in the mid 1970s in the same envelop with the copy of the WMATA Use Regulation. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Nov 14 23:31:51 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Sand Box John on Tue Nov 14 23:24:25 2006. Oy............I was being sarcastic. I was conveying the fact that I was not impressed. |
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Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Nov 14 23:32:29 2006, in response to Re: Detained on WMATA while taking pictures, posted by Sand Box John on Tue Nov 14 23:24:27 2006. I wouldn't bother. |
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Re: Myth about subway picture-taking |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Wed Nov 15 00:00:00 2006, in response to Re: Myth about subway picture-taking, posted by Easy on Tue Nov 14 23:04:23 2006. I have had problems on the NYC subway, New Jersey Transit and Long Island Bus in the past. The last incident was about a year ago. |
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Re: Myth about subway picture-taking |
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Posted by Easy on Wed Nov 15 00:18:06 2006, in response to Re: Myth about subway picture-taking, posted by The Port of Authority on Wed Nov 15 00:00:00 2006. You do well. What's a good dwell time for taking pictures at a station without attracting attention? I think that maybe I stay too long. |
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Re: Myth about subway picture-taking |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Wed Nov 15 00:32:02 2006, in response to Re: Myth about subway picture-taking, posted by Easy on Wed Nov 15 00:18:06 2006. I never stay around longer than one interval most of the time. I usually don't like to stay in one area anyway as the photography can get a bit dull. |
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Re: Myth about subway picture-taking |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Nov 15 09:28:09 2006, in response to Re: Myth about subway picture-taking, posted by Easy on Wed Nov 15 00:18:06 2006. Zero seconds. Any misguided employee, customer, or policeman that doesn't like photography is not going to stand there and time how long you are there. He's going to come harass you rather quickly. |
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Re: Myth about subway picture-taking |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Nov 15 14:04:34 2006, in response to Re: Myth about subway picture-taking, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Nov 15 09:28:09 2006. They seem to magically appear just as you press the shutter release. |
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Re: Myth about subway picture-taking |
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Posted by Easy on Wed Nov 15 14:30:04 2006, in response to Re: Myth about subway picture-taking, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Nov 15 09:28:09 2006. Other riders don't seem to know what I'm doing. Some will even walk over to get a better look because they have no clue what I could possibly taking pictures of. It seems to take longer for the average rider to make up their mind as to whether I should be reported.Some employees on the other hand DO make up their minds immediately. I think that there may be a genuine misperception on their part that such activity is illegal. |
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| (338803) | |
Re: Myth about subway picture-taking |
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Posted by R4 Bryn Mawr LCL/R5 Paoli EXP on Wed Nov 15 19:46:26 2006, in response to Re: Myth about subway picture-taking, posted by The Port of Authority on Tue Nov 14 22:45:42 2006. I've been bothered only twice. Once was back during the SubTalk trip in 2003 (by an anal stupidvisor who called us out over the PA system) and the other was on the Mid Winter Trip in 2004 (by a station agent at Milbourne, although I was on the opposite platform which has no entry so there was no way for him to physically get to me. Naturally I ignored him completely. |
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