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| Re: THE TRUTH from G1Ravage (Re: 7 train tagged in service!) (318514) | |
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| (319455) | |
Re: THE TRUTH from G1Ravage (Re: 7 train tagged in service!) |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Wed Oct 4 23:13:10 2006, in response to Re: THE TRUTH from G1Ravage (Re: 7 train tagged in service!), posted by IRT Rules on Wed Oct 4 20:55:48 2006. Yes. As I said in another post, five to seven trains are usually laid up on the structure overnight.Not that we have any proof that this was where the tagging occurred. |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by SilverFox on Wed Oct 4 23:52:46 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by Edwards! on Wed Oct 4 21:25:45 2006. Ghetto culture: - Wearing baseball caps backward like prisoners do, but as a mainstream fashion statement. - Listening to thuggish and socially worthless rap "music" as a political or taste statement. - Using Ebonics and other ersatz street slang as your primary language. - Promoting graffiti as an "artistic expression" whether or not admitting it is vandalism. . . . for four. If these are not markers of how we think, feel, and act, then nothing is. I want a liberal society as well as nearly anyone, but still there have to be limits. And I think that those who romanticize graffiti are part of a denominator lower than the lowest common one, which we are at right now, and already is so low that standards for decorum have degenerated into nigh nonexistence. |
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Re: I SMELL A RAT! |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Oct 4 23:52:58 2006, in response to Re: I SMELL A RAT!, posted by monorail on Tue Oct 3 18:09:06 2006. what exactly does a rat smell like??They smell kinda nice actually, if you keep their cage clean. But what do I know? I've only had mice and hamsters. And a gerbil. And cats. Now a dog, too. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Oct 4 23:56:20 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Oct 3 22:14:43 2006. I wanna ride that clue! Can I ride that clue? |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by Olney Terminal on Wed Oct 4 23:57:13 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by R 36 ML 9542 on Wed Oct 4 01:59:42 2006. I always thought it was "shug". |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Oct 4 23:58:35 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by tydev417 on Wed Oct 4 16:58:16 2006. I think I'd rather ride the train in the first pic. It's covered in slime, but it's got a RFW! |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu Oct 5 00:02:43 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by Allan on Wed Oct 4 08:22:35 2006. Yeah, tag his house! It's located at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington DC. I've heard it's got that inviting white coat that attracted graffiti in the bad ol' days...Incidentally, if my joke is really horrible, blame Dave Barry. |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Oct 5 00:28:42 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by tydev417 on Wed Oct 4 22:02:40 2006. Cars with actual paint jobs didn't get a good representation cuz they were around during a time where the subway in general was shit. |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Oct 5 00:30:20 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by SilverFox on Wed Oct 4 23:52:46 2006. Socially worthless rap music....hmm, sounds quite opinionated to me. |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by #3 West End Jeff on Thu Oct 5 01:07:45 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by RonInBayside on Wed Oct 4 02:08:42 2006. I would have to agree with you on that point that the graffiti epidemic was pretty horrible. Also you almost certainy recall that the entire New York City subway system was in a total or near total state of disrepair.#3 West End Jeff |
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Re: I SMELL A RAT! |
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Posted by New Brunswick Station on Thu Oct 5 01:33:42 2006, in response to Re: I SMELL A RAT!, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Oct 3 18:44:34 2006. DeLorean. Flux capacitor. McFly making a wrong turn. |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Oct 5 02:05:44 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by SilverFox on Wed Oct 4 23:52:46 2006. HummI find that funny that you would use EVERY single trait that the common young person does...[not stating that it only transpires in BLACK LATINO neighborhoods..but to your basic White suburb also]...as offensive. Are you also stating that the indivisuals using "ebonics" are LACKING in intelligence to carry a conversation AND/OR intelligent Speach [I.E WHITE SPEAK]..? I feel your outlook on what WE SAY or do or dress is nothing short of foolish.. Look at this..a Man with his son was walking down the street..the MAN was wearing some cutoffs..and his some was dressed in fashionable stature...latest gear..head to toe. The MAN's pants were hanging off his ASS WITH HIS BUTTCRACK SHOWING..his speach was FULL of "ebonics"[as YOU CALL IT]...And his hat was turned BACKWARDS... Guess what kind of car he got into? A SUV..TOP OF THE LINE...RANGE ROVER. The MAN was WHITER THAN SNOW and so was his son.. Was He a product of the GHETTO FABULOUS LIFESTYLE..? What aboutthe young sububanites who come into the city to buys the LASTEST fashions? the BLING..? Are THEY GHETTO FABULOUS,TOO..? I myself know PLENTY of folk who fit into your little box neatly..WALK THE WALK..TALK THE TALK..and are among the most decent people I know.. Ones you wouldn't see SPRAYPAINTING on a wall..or writng crap on a rail car... I believe you THINK YOU KNOW of what GHETTO CULTURE is all about..but like so many white folks..you are on the OUTSIDE looking in trying to understand something that you never will. Why..because you are a white person..NOT a child serveral generations removed from being slaves... Black people learned how to assimulate into this culture..and created our own..co opting a language that vexes and confuses the OTHER MAN..namely YOU. Trying to understand what you cannot..often leads to MISUNDERSTANDING..with BLACKS and Latino's..they had to MAKE DUDE with Social problems that developed here due to many doors of oppertunites being closed in the faces of the so called LOW CLASS..a lable that was PLACED on the people of color to DEHUMANISE them..and to make YOUR people feel better about the social injustices that YOUR people were doing to them... Now MY parents DID NOT give into the climate of the times..they got GOOD PAYING JOBS[A NYC TEACHER..and a NYCTA MOTORMAN]...and RASIED us well..with various cultural advents..such as visits to our home towns..or other outing to keep us CULTURAL FRESH...as well as various books dealing with Black history,and the like. I believe that your assesments are wrong out of ignorance..not out of Not understanding PEOPLE.. Given..Tagging WAS a product of Expression.during those time..like today...one that I found to be most destructive in content..just like todays young people are mostly misunderstood youths looking for someone to show them the RIGHT path.. People are the Products of their ENVIROMENTS...meaning you are what you allow yourself to become..whether BLACK OR WHITE. You can come from the depressed area and still make a life for yourself if YOU put in the effort. To Me..tagging was and IS stupid..and I AM an ARTIST..[I write/draw comics..and drive a bus!]..I NEVER considered Tagging to be part of Ghetto culture..or fashionable.. Ponder my words. |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Oct 5 02:09:43 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Oct 5 00:30:20 2006. He doesn't understand the music....Not a problem. |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by monorail on Thu Oct 5 02:15:32 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by Edwards! on Thu Oct 5 02:05:44 2006. 'Why..because you are a white person' instead of labeling him just as 'white' perhaps you should use the word 'uninformed' as well otherwise, it sounds like you are saying all white people feel/think in this manner |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Oct 5 02:22:31 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by monorail on Thu Oct 5 02:15:32 2006. No thats not it..I wasn't trrying to "type him"..so to speak.. I WAS pointing out to him that since he ISN'T an person of color..then he couldnt possible identify with us...and what it was like or could be like... |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Oct 5 02:25:01 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by monorail on Thu Oct 5 02:15:32 2006. No thats not it..I wasn't trrying to "type him"..so to speak.. I WAS pointing out to him that since he ISN'T an person of color..then he couldnt possible identify with us...and what it was like or could be like... My family in the south is 60 percent WHITE...and they understand WHAT its like...because they have "walked the walk". |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by SilverFox on Thu Oct 5 02:26:41 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by Edwards! on Thu Oct 5 02:05:44 2006. Why..because you are a white person..NOT a child serveral generations removed from being slaves... Black people learned how to assimulate into this culture..and created our own..co opting a language that vexes and confuses the OTHER MAN..namely YOU. Trying to understand what you cannot..often leads to MISUNDERSTANDING..with BLACKS and Latino's..they had to MAKE DUDE with Social problems that developed here due to many doors of oppertunites being closed in the faces of the so called LOW CLASS..a lable that was PLACED on the people of color to DEHUMANISE them..and to make YOUR people feel better about the social injustices that YOUR people were doing to them... Whatever. You've done more to "dehumanise" children several generations removed from slaves, the low class, and minorities in this paragraph than you allege I have. It's full of contradictions, feel-good psychobabble, justifications, and straw grabbing. But we are both entitled to our opinions and I won't broach the subject again. |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by J trainloco on Thu Oct 5 03:04:14 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Oct 4 19:53:17 2006. Grafitti is not art, since it's very definition implies vandalism and a collapse of social orderIf someone painted on the side of a train with the conventional brush methods, would that be better? conversely, is all graffitti art vandalism? |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Oct 5 03:05:33 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by SilverFox on Thu Oct 5 02:26:41 2006. I meant no disrespect to you at all..as you are one of the posters here that I VALUE most. Im AM pointing out your misconceptions... I don't need to post "feel good psychobabble" and so called justifications...to know what truth is[and being a living example of that truth] It is what it is.. We are cool. |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Thu Oct 5 06:47:19 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by monorail on Wed Oct 4 20:23:17 2006. so the car got tagged, where was the crime and violence?It was there, much worse than today. Graffiti didn't directly cause crime and violence, it was part of public conception that the system was going to hell in a hand basket. Crime, violence and graffiti were not the only problems of the 80's. Bad tracks with red tagged areas was rampant, rolling stock that wasn't maintained and trains going out of service mid route were an everyday thing. You see, it took someone like David Gunn to grab the "bull by the horns". When rolling stock slowly became graffiti free, they were also repaired and inspected. The general overhaul program bought some extra years of service to cars that were almost ready for the scrapper. Cars unfit for overhaul were scrapped and replaced with new rolling stock. The system gradually became graffiti free and was on the way back. So you see, the graffiti epidemic provided the wake up call and the TA did just that. I wonder what if David Gunn hadn't come on the sceme what the system would be like today. Graffitti is in todays culture, music and even video games. So young minds accept it as cool and normal. Graffitti in a gallery or with the concent of a propery owner is art. Graffitti on trains, buildings, bridges etc. without owner's concent is vandalism. And spare me the Freedom of Expression cop out. Bill "Newkirk" |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Thu Oct 5 06:50:15 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Oct 4 20:38:28 2006. Graffiti did NOT cause the crime and violence on the subways. It was a product of the times, not the producer.Read my response to monorail. Graffitti didn't cause crime and violence. Today graffitti (on rolling stock) is way down, so is crime and violence. Need I say more ? Bill "Newkirk" |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Oct 5 10:03:54 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by SilverFox on Thu Oct 5 02:26:41 2006. And you still seem to forget that grafitti is not a ghetto culture. As a matter of fact, most of the people that I know who do grafitti are rockers more than rappers. Skaters and BMX riders. So yeah, you're analysis is a bit off. Ghetto culture is part of grafitti, and so is rock culture. Grafitti is not part of it. |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Oct 5 10:07:36 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by Newkirk Images on Thu Oct 5 06:47:19 2006. Who said vandalism can't be artistic? |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Oct 5 10:09:01 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by Newkirk Images on Thu Oct 5 06:50:15 2006. Yes, actually, you do. Like I said, grafitti was a product of the crime and violence. You act as if the fact that the subways are safer is because grafitti is down, yet at the same time, you say that grafitti didn't cause the crime and violence. So which one is it? |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by 5119 on Thu Oct 5 11:34:22 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by 5119 on Wed Oct 4 11:49:53 2006. Yes, Dammit, DEPORTED11 |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by 5119 on Thu Oct 5 11:38:00 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Wed Oct 4 18:11:26 2006. Newkirk, they don't have a clue. Making excuses for scumbag feral youth who respect nobody's property and who've caused the quality of life of certain neighborhoods to decline drastically |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by mambomta on Thu Oct 5 12:03:14 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by SilverFox on Wed Oct 4 23:52:46 2006. - Wearing baseball caps backward like prisoners do, but as a mainstream fashion statement.That's not ghetto culture. And prisoners were most likely not the first ones to wear their caps like that. Listening to thuggish and socially worthless rap "music" as a political or taste statement. More middle/upper-class suburban kids listen to gansta rap than so-called "ghetto" people. Using Ebonics and other ersatz street slang as your primary language. All cultures use some form of slang as their primary language. I(and both of my brothers) can easily understand and switch between street, standard, and proper english. I can also understand and switch between technical(electronic, computer, and dance), nerd, & geek languages, sometimes in the same conversation. Promoting graffiti as an "artistic expression" whether or not admitting it is vandalism. That is also not ghetto culture. |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by monorail on Thu Oct 5 12:05:09 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by Edwards! on Thu Oct 5 02:25:01 2006. 'I WAS pointing out to him that since he ISN'T an person of color..then he couldnt possible identify with us...and what it was like or could be like...My family in the south is 60 percent WHITE...' so some white people can and some can't........ |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by monorail on Thu Oct 5 12:08:28 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by Newkirk Images on Thu Oct 5 06:47:19 2006. 'Graffitti on trains, buildings, bridges etc. without owner's concent is vandalism'vandalism okay, but some of it is still artistic |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by 1/9 Broadway Local on Thu Oct 5 12:40:43 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by tydev417 on Wed Oct 4 15:43:48 2006. Art is art no matter where it is.Get over the fact that your precious little trains have a little spraypaint on it. |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Oct 5 12:50:39 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Oct 4 20:39:50 2006. It's NOT art when it's construction is an act of vandalism. If it's on a legal medium (a canvas or a building where an owner has given his/her approval for the work) it ceases being grafitti! It becomes grafitti-inspired ART. Again, you can't seem to seperate the pictures from the process. |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Oct 5 12:51:55 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by J trainloco on Thu Oct 5 03:04:14 2006. No. Grafitti is vandalism. When you remove the vandalism aspect, it ceases being grafitti and it becomes grafitti art. It CANNOT be both. It's either a crime, or it's art. Not both. |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Oct 5 13:00:08 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by J trainloco on Thu Oct 5 03:04:14 2006. Only if the TA gave its permission. |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Oct 5 13:15:10 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by 1/9 Broadway Local on Thu Oct 5 12:40:43 2006. You need to change your attitude just a little bit |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Oct 5 13:23:14 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Oct 5 12:50:39 2006. Grafitti, BY DEFINITION, says NOTHING about vandalism. The definition does admit that it generally is vandalism, but that it is just a technicality of the art. So once again, you are wrong. I don't know where you got the term graffiti-inspired art, but that is not graffiti its self. Graffiti is art, end of story. You need to open a dictionary. |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Oct 5 13:26:34 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Oct 5 12:51:55 2006. It can be both. No definition that I have read indicates otherwise. Also, when both words are plugged into webster, dictionary.com, and Word Processor, neither show the other as a synonym.So by definition, you are wrong. |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Thu Oct 5 17:57:43 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Oct 5 13:15:10 2006. A lot. |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by Fred G on Thu Oct 5 18:19:24 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by 1/9 Broadway Local on Wed Oct 4 14:55:48 2006. I dunno, I'm considering painting people's faces with pigs blood. Oh, fear not, it's certainly art, the way I do it.your pal, Fred |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by Olney Terminal on Thu Oct 5 18:52:00 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by 1/9 Broadway Local on Thu Oct 5 12:40:43 2006. But art is subjective. How do you know he was even trying to make art, and not just leaving an over-the-top signature? |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Thu Oct 5 19:36:55 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Oct 5 10:07:36 2006. Who said vandalism can't be artistic?I guess it's a matter of opinion. I guess I'll check out of this thread since we'll never see eye to eye. Bill "Newkirk" |
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Re: I SMELL A RAT! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Oct 5 20:22:17 2006, in response to I SMELL A RAT!, posted by R36 #9346 on Tue Oct 3 18:07:45 2006. Haha, not only did G1 pwn you, but I just saw the correct side of 1801 again and it CLEARLY has leftover graffiti on the window sills.Pwnt x 2 |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by J trainloco on Thu Oct 5 23:59:36 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Oct 5 12:51:55 2006. No, Graffitti is not vandalism. It's a style of art. It CAN be perpetrated as vandalism. |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by SilverFox on Fri Oct 6 04:35:54 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by Edwards! on Thu Oct 5 03:05:33 2006. Never hated you. Never took any disrespect. I respect your arguments more than you can imagine. Like the abortion issue and many others, it seems here that there is a vast no-man's-land between what you are trying to say and what I am trying to say, and nothing that we say will close that gap. All that will happen is that we will exchange information and work on strengthening our own arguments with what we've found out. It's what makes the world go 'round, and this is proof that civil disagreements can occur here. Happy Friday! |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 6 12:56:36 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by J trainloco on Thu Oct 5 23:59:36 2006. You're not using the word properly. Grafitti is vandalism. Anything can be grafitti. Graffiti was scrawled on the inside of the Great Pyramid by the workers who constructed it nearly 5,000 years ago. It looks nothing like the "art" you think of today. Grafitti can not be art. Once it becomes art, it ceases to be grafitti and it becomes "grafitti-style art" or "urban art". |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 6 13:02:19 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Oct 5 13:26:34 2006. It can be both. No definition that I have read indicates otherwise. I'm getting sick and tired of saying the same thing over and over. Grafitti is vandalism. Grafitti art is not if it's placed in an approved medium. If you see any definition anywhere else in the internet, it is 100% wrong. Defining what one accepts as art is difficult. Defining what society in general accepts as art is a lot easier. The law defines grafitti as a crime. End of story. |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 6 13:06:08 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Oct 5 13:23:14 2006. You are WRONG. Grafitti is a crime: http://www.nyc.gov/html/nograffiti/html/legislation.html Grafitti is the simple act of defacing publically or privately owned property. The pretty pictures you think they are are a recent phenomenon which developed in the 1960's. |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by New Brunswick Station on Fri Oct 6 14:09:18 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 6 13:06:08 2006. So? Graffiti is art which is criminal. Wh00pi3 d00dl3 d00. |
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Mod Parent Up! |
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Posted by Subterranean Railway on Fri Oct 6 16:29:30 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by Edwards! on Tue Oct 3 23:55:54 2006. ...if we had a Slashdot-esque moderation system implemented on SubChat, that is.This is perhaps the most concise and logical post of the thread. Brevity is the soul of wit. Unfortunately, the stainless steel surface of an R62a appeals more to our "artist" than a canvas, since his motive is displaying work to as wide an audience as possible, not creating a good-looking design for his own pleasure. |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Oct 6 18:35:12 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 6 12:56:36 2006. You are wrong, plain wrong. Graffiti CAN BE vandalism. NO definition says anything about vandalism. Read up on it. You'll learn something, so that way you wont have to just talk out of your ass |
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Re: 7 train tagged in service! |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Oct 6 18:41:12 2006, in response to Re: 7 train tagged in service!, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 6 13:02:19 2006. And I'm sick and tired of telling you. Graffiti IS art. Art can be vandalism. There is no such thing as graffiti-inspired art, or any of that bullshit. Graffiti is graffiti, straight up. That's it. Graffiti CAN be vandalism.I got my defintion from webster. Where did you get yours? From the same society that we all criticize here for consistently being wrong? From the police that we consistently criticize for being wrong? Sorry, but you are wrong. End of story. |
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