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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by Fred G on Mon Aug 14 21:02:45 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Aug 14 20:56:42 2006.

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And you're the kind of cop we'd like to meet, but sometimes we meet the prick of misery.

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Aug 14 21:04:16 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Aug 14 20:56:42 2006.

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Since we do not know the reason for the officer's stop

Yes we do. The officer said Jarid was making people on the train nervous.

There could have been a radio run of "a terrorist on the train acting very suspiciously AND taking videos"

1. How would the person on the radio know there is a terrorist on board?
2. How is taking photos suspicious behavior?
3. How would the person on the radio know that Jarid was taking video?
4. How come when I was approached by police officers at Stillwell Av, they told me someone complained about a photographer and they just had to come check it out. I told them I'm a railfan and they said fine, carry on. Why did they not assume I was a terrorist openly taking photos?

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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by jimmymc25 on Mon Aug 14 21:05:21 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Aug 14 20:28:57 2006.

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This had nothing to do with a man with a gun.

This cop overreacted & you know it!

Stop being a "hasbeen" & look at the facts!

Thisis kid with a camera reported by a bunch of paranoid schizos , & this fool, who responded over reacted & tried to intimidate him & was successfull at it & overstepped his bounds.
He had no reason to take the camerea & put it in his pockett & all that.
He sensed the kid being nervious & intimidated him.

A true scumbag who doesn't deserve a NYPD badge cos he treats it like an ss cross.

He's part of the reason that cops don't get all the respect THEY DESERVE!!!!

So were you a true cop SGT Rosen or were you a fuckin facist pig?

I only ask cos you always seem to take that attitude of "blues never wrong".

I have a bunch of cops in my circle of friends & family who aren't afraid to question the actions of cops.

Jimmymc25

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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by zdeno on Mon Aug 14 21:05:40 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Aug 14 21:04:16 2006.

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Don't post Jarid's name. He just expressed some anger towards me privately because his name is on the internet (at least that is how I interpreted it).

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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by Easy on Mon Aug 14 21:08:18 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Aug 14 20:56:42 2006.

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Well, if he had a legitimate report of a "terrorist" on a train he handled it very poorly and put many lives including his own at risk.

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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by The Port of Authority on Mon Aug 14 21:13:47 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by zdeno on Mon Aug 14 21:05:40 2006.

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His name is in his website URL...

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Re: *** What the NYPD thinks about this *** WAS/STILL IS Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morn

Posted by Canton Viaduct on Mon Aug 14 21:19:41 2006, in response to *** What the NYPD thinks about this *** WAS/STILL IS Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morn, posted by Clayton on Mon Aug 14 20:40:21 2006.

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What Harry posted - in a blatant act of trolling - was extremely uncalled for, and without replying to the specifics of their forum, it would be best to discourage engaging in an inter-forum flame war. It would be irresponsible to associate the posts on that third-party forum with the New York Police Department.

Should it continue on here, I would ask Larry to kindly lock this thread.

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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by zdeno on Mon Aug 14 21:21:06 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by The Port of Authority on Mon Aug 14 21:13:47 2006.

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I am well aware of this, which is why I found it fairly paradoxical.

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Re: *** What the NYPD thinks about this *** WAS/STILL IS Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morn

Posted by zdeno on Mon Aug 14 21:23:43 2006, in response to Re: *** What the NYPD thinks about this *** WAS/STILL IS Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morn, posted by Canton Viaduct on Mon Aug 14 21:19:41 2006.

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I disagree. Jarid, your posts are on the internet, it is a public place. I agree that nypdrant doesn't speak for the NYPD.


Those who wish to continue the discussion can e-mail me at hb.misc@gmail.com

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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by Canton Viaduct on Mon Aug 14 21:24:18 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by zdeno on Mon Aug 14 21:05:40 2006.

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Harry, my anger was expressed at your posting this thread to that other forum in an attempt to solicit attention. You subsequently blocked me from instant messenger, sadly, after years of friendly transit discussion, especially regarding Boston area transit. Since I can no longer contact you on instant messenger, I cannot reply elsewhere.

Perhaps it would be best to take a step back and avoid the personal attacks. You and I both know that it's uncilivized discourse.

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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by zdeno on Mon Aug 14 21:26:48 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by Canton Viaduct on Mon Aug 14 21:24:18 2006.

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I provided e-mail in a response to you below. I have yet to attack you, by the way. Nor do I plan to.

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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by Canton Viaduct on Mon Aug 14 21:33:04 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by zdeno on Mon Aug 14 21:26:48 2006.

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Thanks. For now, I'll consider the matter settled.

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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by zdeno on Mon Aug 14 21:35:59 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by Canton Viaduct on Mon Aug 14 21:33:04 2006.

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Ok, sounds good.

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Re: *** What the NYPD thinks about this *** WAS/STILL IS Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this m

Posted by Fred G on Mon Aug 14 21:40:11 2006, in response to *** What the NYPD thinks about this *** WAS/STILL IS Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morn, posted by Clayton on Mon Aug 14 20:40:21 2006.

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Hehe, you stoolies crossposting our stuff over there. Howbout maybe reminding da fellas that while they're shaking down a shutterbug, there's some real crime going on? Like some guys who are learning how to fly planes but not giving a shit how to land 'em? Or some guy setting fire to a tower to keep warm? Agreed, somebody calls in a complaint about a guy taking pics on an R32 car needs to be addressed, but how long does it take to realize the guy is harmless, like maybe half a minute, maybe a minute, tops? Ok, maybe 2 minutes, no prob. It doesn't have to be this way; pay some decent dough and hire some talent, ferchrissake. And if yer gonna crosspost this over there, tell 'em some smart Kraut who can set up a tripod next to an LA Class at a Navy base is sick of spending 8 minutes explaining he's legit when the dude in blue ain't gettin it. Thanks.

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by Dan Lawrence on Mon Aug 14 21:43:12 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by The Port of Authority on Mon Aug 14 19:29:33 2006.

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Funny, the National Railway Historical Society is on board with it. The BNSF ID Card recognizes the holder as being part of the railroad's security program. More eyes and ears in the hunt for possible terrorists. It's not just to take pictures.

Sorry, you are not right.

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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by Dan Lawrence on Mon Aug 14 21:45:03 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by Fred G on Mon Aug 14 19:34:23 2006.

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Different CRS. What's yours?

Never mind, if you're over 50........

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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by Fred G on Mon Aug 14 21:46:02 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by Dan Lawrence on Mon Aug 14 21:45:03 2006.

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LOL, I'm sneaking up on that number, brah.

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Aug 14 21:46:21 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by The Port of Authority on Mon Aug 14 19:29:33 2006.

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The BNSF ID card is voluntary, just like the short lived NJT Photo ID Permit was. I don't mind voluntary programs. I do mind mandatory programs.

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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by R7 Torresdale Express on Mon Aug 14 21:49:32 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by Dan Lawrence on Mon Aug 14 21:43:12 2006.

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How do they determine that you are a railfan and not a terrorist? Do they at least do a background check?

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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by R7 Torresdale Express on Mon Aug 14 21:50:30 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by Fred G on Mon Aug 14 21:46:02 2006.

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Really? You seem much younger to me. I would've thought you were in your 30s.

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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by Fred G on Mon Aug 14 21:51:23 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by Dan Lawrence on Mon Aug 14 21:43:12 2006.

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Is there a background check, Dan?

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Aug 14 21:51:57 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by R7 Torresdale Express on Mon Aug 14 21:49:32 2006.

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Why would a terrorist sign up for this? If a terrorist wanted to take photos, and I seriously doubt that any do, they would do it discreetly and would never been seen/caught. Railfans take photos out in the open. We are not terrorists. We have nothing to hide in partaking in this legal activity.

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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by The Port of Authority on Mon Aug 14 21:54:02 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by Dan Lawrence on Mon Aug 14 21:43:12 2006.

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Or better yet, why not just go out and take pictures without having to bother with any of that?

If someone questions me, I just explain that it's my hobby. No further questions are asked.

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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Aug 14 21:55:30 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Aug 14 21:51:57 2006.

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*would never be

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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by Fred G on Mon Aug 14 21:58:10 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by R7 Torresdale Express on Mon Aug 14 21:50:30 2006.

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Thanks, but 1958 is the year I graduated Zygote.

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by R4 Bryn Mawr LCL/R5 Paoli EXP on Mon Aug 14 21:58:31 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by zdeno on Mon Aug 14 21:35:59 2006.

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CRUNCH

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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by R4 Bryn Mawr LCL/R5 Paoli EXP on Mon Aug 14 22:00:05 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Aug 14 21:51:57 2006.

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Maybe they could use it as a cover for other suspicious activities.

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Re: *** What the NYPD thinks about this *** WAS/STILL IS Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morn

Posted by Mark W. on Mon Aug 14 22:07:21 2006, in response to Re: *** What the NYPD thinks about this *** WAS/STILL IS Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morn, posted by zdeno on Mon Aug 14 21:23:43 2006.

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AFAIK Harry was only an intern and interns don't get an NYCT email address.

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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Aug 14 22:08:26 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by Fred G on Mon Aug 14 21:58:10 2006.

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When I was born Harry Truman was president.

And I got to ride on the Third Avenue El in Manhattan!

ROAR

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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Aug 14 22:09:13 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by R4 Bryn Mawr LCL/R5 Paoli EXP on Mon Aug 14 22:00:05 2006.

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Like?

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Re: *** What the NYPD thinks about this *** WAS/STILL IS Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morn

Posted by David E. on Mon Aug 14 22:10:53 2006, in response to Re: *** What the NYPD thinks about this *** WAS/STILL IS Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morn, posted by Mark W. on Mon Aug 14 22:07:21 2006.

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Let the punk speak for himself. He is spineless and hides behind an internet message board. He needs to grow some balls.

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Re: *** What the NYPD thinks about this *** WAS/STILL IS Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morn

Posted by zdeno on Mon Aug 14 22:12:08 2006, in response to Re: *** What the NYPD thinks about this *** WAS/STILL IS Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morn, posted by David E. on Mon Aug 14 22:10:53 2006.

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Feel free to e-mail me. At a e-mail address that actually reaches me, like the one I posted earlier.
I am not sure who you are but would love to find out, rather then have you hide behind the internet as you accuse me of doing.

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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by Fred G on Mon Aug 14 22:15:50 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Aug 14 22:08:26 2006.

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Hehe, well I got Ike and did ride the Myrtle Ave line (mostly to Tompkins but even to Jay St once in a while) and do remember R40's without braces. I got separated from my folks at the World's Fair and lived to tell. So there, my life in a nutshell :D

your pal,
Fred

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Re: *** What the NYPD thinks about this *** WAS/STILL IS Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morn

Posted by David E. on Mon Aug 14 22:15:58 2006, in response to Re: *** What the NYPD thinks about this *** WAS/STILL IS Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morn, posted by zdeno on Mon Aug 14 22:12:08 2006.

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No chance Beck. I know how you love collecting information on people here and then you try and use it against them. What is your agenda? People beware, He knows more about many of you then you do! He will never have the chance to collect info on me!

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Re: *** What the NYPD thinks about this *** WAS/STILL IS Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morn

Posted by zdeno on Mon Aug 14 22:18:46 2006, in response to Re: *** What the NYPD thinks about this *** WAS/STILL IS Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morn, posted by David E. on Mon Aug 14 22:15:58 2006.

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I have said it once, I'll say it one thousand times:

Anything I post is posted by the people I discuss. They willingly put their information on the internet, in the public domain.

I do not and will never post something told to me privately or not publically available.

Understand?

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Finished.

Posted by zdeno on Mon Aug 14 22:19:23 2006, in response to Re: *** What the NYPD thinks about this *** WAS/STILL IS Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morn, posted by zdeno on Mon Aug 14 22:18:46 2006.

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BTW,

I am done responding to you.

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Thread Locked Re: Finished.

Posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Mon Aug 14 22:20:11 2006, in response to Finished., posted by zdeno on Mon Aug 14 22:19:23 2006.

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Locked.

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Re: *** What the NYPD thinks about this *** WAS/STILL IS Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this m

Posted by Goumba Tony on Mon Aug 14 22:40:33 2006, in response to *** What the NYPD thinks about this *** WAS/STILL IS Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morn, posted by Clayton on Mon Aug 14 20:40:21 2006.

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I assume no one would not want Mohammad Bin Terrorist's ID to be checked NEARLY as rigororously

Or Jimmy McCopycat or Jaun ElTerroristo, etc etc.

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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by Koi-PublicTransitIsMyLifeline on Mon Aug 14 22:50:33 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by R7 Torresdale Express on Mon Aug 14 21:50:30 2006.

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I agree. It would never have occurred to me that you are closer to 50 than 30. You look at least 15 years younger than you actually are (to me, anyway).

Koi

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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by Fred G on Mon Aug 14 22:58:44 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by Koi-PublicTransitIsMyLifeline on Mon Aug 14 22:50:33 2006.

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Thanks, all that clean living I guess :P

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Thread Locked Re: Finished.

Posted by R4 Bryn Mawr LCL/R5 Paoli EXP on Mon Aug 14 22:59:05 2006, in response to Thread Locked Re: Finished., posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Mon Aug 14 22:20:11 2006.

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False!

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Re: Thread Locked Re: Finished.

Posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Mon Aug 14 22:59:21 2006, in response to Re: Thread Locked Re: Finished., posted by R4 Bryn Mawr LCL/R5 Paoli EXP on Mon Aug 14 22:59:05 2006.

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:-)


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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by SilverFox on Mon Aug 14 23:02:14 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by David of Broadway on Mon Aug 14 19:40:52 2006.

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I am writing this from a city that is under greater terrorist threat than New York . . . and I will readily poo-poo any notion that it might possibly pose a threat in New York.

You know and I know that the act of photography doesn't constitute the problem. It is the action against the infrastructure that does, and it doesn't need to be photographed to be recalled where it is or what its weak points are. So your poo-pooing the notion that photography is to blame is a wasted poo-poo.

But it is difficult to overlook the fact that times have changed, and until methods of identifying and dealing with terrorist threats become more streamlined, nearly everything will arouse suspicion in this naive country of ours. That is a fact of life. Not everybody is as enlightened as you or I might be.

Maybe Londoners are more fatalistic. Maybe they are more accepting of risk. Maybe they don't have the legal web in place like we do (created by those who feel that everything should be baby-proofed, warned-against and idiot-proofed in order to save people from themselves) that cause our police to be over-cautious and under-effective. Damned if they do; damned if they don't. And damned by you if they should "inconvenience" you in the process of doing their job, maybe a bit overcautiously.

I never said that the police were right in any action against rail photographers here. But what I did say is that if the rail photographers accept the "inconvenience" and other negatives, they allow the police officers more rope with which to hang themselves so that maybe they know for next time not to bother us and make them more effective against real threats. I am just as against cops doing the wrong thing as you are, but maybe more than most of you, I accept that their "convenience" is worth quite a bit more than yours.

And thank you for taking time out of your vacation to post to us. Usually, vacations are meant to allow you to forget your usual routine for awhile.


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Re: *** What the NYPD thinks about this *** WAS/STILL IS Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this m

Posted by Clayton on Mon Aug 14 23:03:55 2006, in response to Re: *** What the NYPD thinks about this *** WAS/STILL IS Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morn, posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Aug 14 20:49:34 2006.

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Hey now, who created that photo?! :)

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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by SilverFox on Mon Aug 14 23:23:41 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Aug 14 19:10:06 2006.

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Being detained without articulable suspicion is harassment. Taking his camera is harassment. Telling him to put his camera away and leave (i.e. no more photos) is harassment. Being prevented from going on about his legal hobby after it was clear Jarid was not a threat was harassment. Telling Jarid that stuff like this can be turned over to the FBI was harassment.

No doubt.

But this isn't time for negotiations, especially if one or both parties are agitated by the event.

Jarid: I'm partaking in a legal activity and I do not wish to provide any further information.

You're not a lawyer. Jarid is not a lawyer. You are both correct in this case, but you don't know what that cop was thinking. If I were the cop, just that kind of defiant answer will make me want to swing my dick at you more and detain you further, however wrong that might be on my part, just to teach you not to give a police officer a hard time. I'll gamble with your filing a complaint with the CCRB because of my actions.

If you would've given me your ID, I would have probably just said, "Have a nice day. But be careful because you may arouse suspicion in people." Apparently it didn't happen here, but one has never gotten the advantage or had their life made easier by going against the cop.

Cops ask for ID all the time without cause. One major and glaring example is when they conduct those roadblocks or dragnets and check your seatbelt usage or just ask for your paperwork without any suspicion that you are somehow up to no good by driving your automobile. I don't agree with it, but I don't fight it either. I know nothing will happen to me, and it just may remove some bad apples from our midst.

Huh? What if the officer started erasing photos? He made Jarid hand him the camera.

Then Ka-Ching! for Jarid. They're only photos of a fucking subway train. Okay, maybe even a picture of car 7692 on tracks it usually doesn't operate on. But even if they were diamond rings and they were destroyed unnecessarily by the Police Department, Jarid has a claim against them, for however much those pictures or the camera was worth. He has a claim against the cop, and he can sue the city and the cop for $20M if he wants to if he can prove the value of the property that was destroyed or deleted.

You just seem intent on minimizing your paperwork hassles at the expense of everybody else's safety, real or imagined.

Again, I am not against rail photographers or rail photography. But I am against the attitude of many of us that "we'll show those cops who's right!" when we get questioned, detained, or otherwise subject to review. This is the same fucking attitude that caused the end of MOD trips, and God knows what else it will cause down the line.


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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by BIE on Mon Aug 14 23:34:23 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Aug 14 20:07:12 2006.

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T.F.S.

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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 15 00:07:01 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by SilverFox on Mon Aug 14 23:02:14 2006.

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I don't mind the police checking in on us. But I do mind when it goes further than that. Most of my run-ins with the NYPD have been simple checking-ins that lasted maybe a minute or two and didn't involve me missing any photo opportunities or missing any trains or being lied to or having my camera taken away. What Jarid experienced was all that, and that is wrong. It doesn't have to be like that, and many times it isn't. So when something like this does happen, it is worth making it known so people can learn how to prevent it.

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Re: *** What the NYPD thinks about this *** WAS/STILL IS Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morn

Posted by J trainloco on Tue Aug 15 00:21:50 2006, in response to *** What the NYPD thinks about this *** WAS/STILL IS Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morn, posted by Clayton on Mon Aug 14 20:40:21 2006.

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HAHAHA.

NYPD rant board seems like a gethering of ultra conservatives, who happen to live far from the nearest shooting range.

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Re: amNY wants to know about it (Was: Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning)

Posted by G1Ravage on Tue Aug 15 00:24:35 2006, in response to Re: amNY wants to know about it (Was: Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning), posted by monorail on Mon Aug 14 17:32:48 2006.

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LOL

New York attitude. ;-)

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Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning

Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 15 00:31:00 2006, in response to Re: Removed from a train by the NYPD this morning, posted by SilverFox on Mon Aug 14 23:23:41 2006.

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You're not a lawyer. Jarid is not a lawyer. You are both correct in this case, but you don't know what that cop was thinking. If I were the cop, just that kind of defiant answer will make me want to swing my dick at you more and detain you further, however wrong that might be on my part, just to teach you not to give a police officer a hard time. I'll gamble with your filing a complaint with the CCRB because of my actions.

Him "swinging his dick at me" wouldn't teach me anything. I wouldn't be giving him a hard time and I wouldn't be defying him. I'd be exercising my legal rights that he has sworn to uphold. If he has a problem with that, he can arrest me (for what, I don't know). Otherwise, I can go free to continue pursuing my legal hobby. What is the problem?

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