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| (207963) | |
Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by Subway Camper on Sun Jan 29 10:15:30 2006 If the R142 cars allow one to reprogram a destination during a run, why doesn't the MTA just DO that? It would save so much confusion.Take the GO occuring right now. Wouldn't it be great if the C/R can just reprogram the destination and display once his/her 5 train is at 96th St to a South Ferry bound 1 train? From the Bronx to 96th St, it can be a Manhattan bound 5 or 2 train via the 7 Av line, but once at 96 St the C/R can change the display to "1 SOUTH FERRY", which would be (at least partially) correct? (It still bothers me why the 5 trains can't just stop at South Ferry and Rector. It's not a big deal, and its not that hard to just open the first five cars and manually announce at Rector that you have to be in the first five cars to exit at SF.) Also, take next week's GO. Wouldn't it be great if once a 4 train enters Brooklyn Bridge going northbound, the C/R can just reprogram the destination and display to show "6 PARKCHESTER"? The 4 trains would then have to go local on Lexington but this isn't such a big deal, the line could use more local service anyway, as could the 7th Av line. People have dealt with the 4 being local on weekends in previous GOs. Anyway, this would reduce so much confusion. Because right now, the 4 trains are going to have to display an incorrect destination (unless there is a "4 125 St" or "4 3 AV-138 ST", which I'm pretty sure there isn't). Why does this never happen? |
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| (207969) | |
Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by Railman718 on Sun Jan 29 10:23:07 2006, in response to Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by Subway Camper on Sun Jan 29 10:15:30 2006. Too much infor for software that is my guess i really dont know how much info thse computers on these robo trains can handle. Maybe thats the reason perhaps?Of coruse you can always call them and ask Camper. |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jan 29 10:54:21 2006, in response to Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by Subway Camper on Sun Jan 29 10:15:30 2006. I highly suspect one can program the 6 announcements to be "express" north of BB, but it would just be more confusing. The 6 can display a BOWLING GREEN destination. Running all service on Lexington Avenue local just to be able to use a LCD screen is pretty stupid; I've been on the subway on those weekends and it is slow and crowded.I don't think the R142/R142A signage programming options are great, but they work well for normal service (to an extent), and that is what matters most. People accomodate for the GOs and everyone still manages somehow. Why does it bother you so much that some trains are going to run with blank signs possibly? The C/Rs can figure out how to convey the message to their passengers, and everyone will get where they need to be eventually. |
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| (207984) | |
Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 29 10:55:33 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jan 29 10:54:21 2006. "Why does it bother you so much that some trains are going to run with blank signs possibly? The C/Rs can figure out how to convey the message to their passengers, and everyone will get where they need to be eventually."Because the hearing-impaired need the visual announcements. |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by ALP44 on Sun Jan 29 15:02:38 2006, in response to Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by Subway Camper on Sun Jan 29 10:15:30 2006. That's why we also have the notices posted in the cars as well. One way or another, the truly observant straphanger will know where their train is heading. Plus, Conductors will be making manual announcements too. I have no idea why you are peeved about blank displays. You should be happy that all attempts at communication are being done. When living in NYC all your life, you know what to expect.Until then..... ALP 44 |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jan 29 15:23:06 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 29 10:55:33 2006. There are other ways for the hearing-impaired to find out and figure out what is going on. |
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| (208126) | |
Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Sun Jan 29 15:38:32 2006, in response to Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by Subway Camper on Sun Jan 29 10:15:30 2006. During G/O's, C/R's are required to shut the automated announcement system off and make manual announcements, as not to confuse passengers. Believe me, having the ability to completely shut off every interior and exterior sign, and thus not have your train be labled as ANYTHING, is a blessing these days.In the slightly older days, your rollsigns would always be set to something somewhat incorrect during a G/O. As for the announcement program's flexibility, there are some "alternate" options available for routings, but nothing too extravagant. The R-160 class may be the first to remedy this problem. |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by mambomta on Sun Jan 29 15:44:01 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by G1Ravage on Sun Jan 29 15:38:32 2006. The R-160 class may be the first to remedy this problem.According to what I heard, even the R160 announcement system won't be good enough for that. They would still have to load alternate route options in advance of the GO. And it is still not flexible enough for an on-the-fly route change. |
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| (208131) | |
Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by Subway Camper on Sun Jan 29 15:44:27 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jan 29 15:23:06 2006. Like what? |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 29 15:54:41 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jan 29 15:23:06 2006. Yes, such as looking through the window at the arriving station. In a crowded train, people might block your view. It's happened to me (fortunately I'm not hearing-impaired).The hearing-impaired deserve advance warning of a stop as much as anyone else. If the visual displays and/or blinking strip maps are not working properly, it makes it harder for them. |
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| (208148) | |
Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jan 29 15:54:47 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by Subway Camper on Sun Jan 29 15:44:27 2006. The paper signs mentioned elsewhere in this thread. |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 29 15:55:46 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jan 29 15:54:47 2006. How does that tell you which stop is the next one? |
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| (208152) | |
Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jan 29 15:57:14 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 29 15:55:46 2006. The conductors are required to (and do) make announcements when the automated announcements are not functioning. |
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| (208153) | |
Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jan 29 15:58:02 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 29 15:54:41 2006. C/R annoucnements are not useful for someone who is hearing-impaired. That said, they managed before the R142s came along. |
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| (208155) | |
Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 29 15:58:37 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jan 29 15:57:14 2006. And how is a deaf person supposed to hear them? |
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| (208157) | |
Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 29 16:01:12 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jan 29 15:58:02 2006. "That said, they managed before the R142s came along."Typical off the insensitive, and condescending and insulting attitude foamers have about the disabled. Some of it is because some foamers are autistic or suffer from Asperger's, so they relate to the machines but not people. Otherwise it's general stupidity. Remember what I told you about your missing a lot of knoweledge about running a transit system? This is one example. |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jan 29 16:10:36 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 29 16:01:12 2006. I didn't design the software for these trains. Clearly it should have been designed differently and I am not denying that. Go ask someone who has that type of a background as to why it was not possible. I am dealing with the situation as is and what I have to work with, not saying that progress should be impeded upon.The fact of the matter is that while the software may be flawed and/or poorly designed, it is being used as we speak, and we will all just have to manage until something better comes along. Hopefully it is being worked on. |
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| (208169) | |
Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 29 16:15:06 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jan 29 16:10:36 2006. OK, if you're saying the software needs work, that's fine. Your post here is sensible. Thank you.The system appears to be related to the software Bombardier installed in MBTA Red Line system cars. I rode the Red Line daily between 1996-98. On rare occasions the software did not work correctly, but otherwise it was very good. |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jan 29 16:18:56 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 29 16:15:06 2006. I've and others posted many times that I think the R142/R142A/R143 cars should have the ability to have the route programs changed much more easily than they are now. I don't think you will find many people on this board who disagree. |
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| (208178) | |
Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 29 16:33:33 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jan 29 16:18:56 2006. I completely agree with you there. I think you have a great idea.Do you know what the user interface looks like (for making the changes)? Can you describe it? Is a keyboard involved? |
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| (208181) | |
Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jan 29 16:38:57 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 29 16:33:33 2006. I have absolutely no idea. I believe the screens on the newer trains in New York City (as well as the 1800 Series cars in Boston) are touch screens. |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by Railman718 on Sun Jan 29 16:41:10 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jan 29 16:38:57 2006. No keyboard touch Screen is invovled. |
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| (208184) | |
Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 29 16:41:41 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by Railman718 on Sun Jan 29 16:41:10 2006. Thank you both! |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Jan 29 16:48:05 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by G1Ravage on Sun Jan 29 15:38:32 2006. During G/O's, C/R's are required to shut the automated announcement system off and make manual announcements, as not to confuse passengers.Within limits. God forbid that the A division should know what the B division is doing. Yesterday the Lexington Ave express I was on told me I could transfer to an L at 14th Street. It would have been quite a long wait. |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by R30A on Sun Jan 29 17:00:26 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 29 16:01:12 2006. But in how poorly such visual aids were implemented, people who cannot hear are better off on the Pre R142 cars, often for a year after such a change took place, as entirely false information is much worse then no information at all. If the next stop visual isnt coming up, one can look at the map to figure the next stop. If the incorrect next stop comes up, one will assume it is correct and not look for the correct next stop.Technology isnt a bad thing, but when it is poorly implemented, it can quickly become a nightmare. There are many examples of correctly implemented newer technology. unfortunately, the MTA does not seem to have the desire to look at many wonderful examples out there(Boston 01800 series, Philly M4s, hell, even our R46s, etc) which have embraced technology, and used them in ways which are miles ahead of their predecessors. Instead we are stuck with half assed uses of things which do not have half the flxibility of what they replaced. That flxibility is needed in a system where in 5 minutes you could end up being sent 10 miles from where you expect you would end up. |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by R30A on Sun Jan 29 17:01:34 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 29 16:41:41 2006. Essentially, you select your route, and a destination out of a list. unfortunately, that list is nowhere near as exaustive as it needs to be. |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 29 17:54:34 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by R30A on Sun Jan 29 17:00:26 2006. In the case of incorrect announcements, the problem may not be in the way they are entered. That is not the only input, obviously. Dead-reckoning (axle rotation detector) or GPS might be used to decide where the train is in relation to a relevant "milestone." So maybe it's a mechanical failure of some type. |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 29 17:56:15 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by R30A on Sun Jan 29 17:01:34 2006. Excellent point by you. |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jan 29 18:01:17 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 29 17:56:15 2006. What point? He's giving a fact based opinion. |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jan 29 18:02:44 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 29 17:54:34 2006. I don't think GPS would work very well. The Acela Express was susposed to have automated station announcements dependent upon wheel revolutions and that doesn't work too well either, although I don't know if that has to do with milestones or not (my guess is no). Some cars in NYC base it off of wheel revolutions, while the others use an odometer, but I forget which classes use which. Neither uses milestones in doing so as far as I know, aside from the starting point being wherever the program is started. |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 29 18:07:20 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jan 29 18:02:44 2006. How does an odometer workon a subway train? does it not measure axle revolution? That's how a car odometer works. Also bus odometers (you can see the odometer mounted right on the bus' real-wheel axle hub). |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by Metropod on Sun Jan 29 18:32:23 2006, in response to Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by Subway Camper on Sun Jan 29 10:15:30 2006. they don't change it becuase it's not a South Ferry Bound 1 train. it doesn't even stop there anymore, so how can it be SF bound? |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Sun Jan 29 18:33:33 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 29 16:33:33 2006. Do you know what the user interface looks like (for making the changes)? Can you describe it? Is a keyboard involved?
This is the Train Operator's Display (TOD). (It was improperly named, because it's used more by the conductor.) This picture was snapped on the R-160B, but it's nearly identical on the other new-tech trains. You select predefined variables for a route. For instance, if I select the (7): SIGNS OFF NOT IN SERVICE MAIN ST - TIMES SQ LCL WILLETS PT - TIMES SQ LCL 111 ST - TIMES SQ LCL MAIN ST - TIMES SQ EXP WILLETS PT - TIMES SQ EXP TIMES SQ - MAIN ST LCL TIMES SQ - WILLETS PT LCL TIMES SQ - 111 ST LCL TIMES SQ - MAIN ST EXP TIMES SQ - WILLETS PT EXP There's probably more, and I haven't seen it up close in a long time, but it's definitely something along those lines. After you load the routing, you can access the station screen, and you'll see a list of all the stations along the route you selected, and whether you'll be stopping at certain stations or not. (Selecting "express" means the train will automatically "void out" the local stations.) If something changes, or you need to skip a stop for some reason (like it's closed for renovations), you can remove it from the route, and thus, its light will be removed from the strip map. |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jan 29 18:38:24 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by AlM on Sun Jan 29 16:48:05 2006. So when you got there you would have found out about the mistake, and would then have learned of what alternates might be available.They cannot know everything on the other Lions. |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jan 29 19:22:05 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 29 18:07:20 2006. My understanding is that an odomoter factors in the speed of the train in to determining how far the train has gone, and then makes an announcement at the appropriate time. The reason the Acela announcements have not worked, according to what I have been told, is that the sensor simply measured how many times the wheel had turned without any regard to speed. As you probably know, a slower moving train will make fewer axle revolutions over the same distance a faster moving train does. |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by Alex L. on Sun Jan 29 20:22:47 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 29 15:55:46 2006. We do have maps in all the cars.And the first person to mention an illiterate deaf person.... |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Jan 29 20:29:09 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jan 29 18:38:24 2006. So when you got there you would have found out about the mistake, and would then have learned of what alternates might be available.They cannot know everything on the other Lions. Yes, but the time to tell people about the L is when the passengers are still at 42nd St and can siwtch to the 7 to the G. I agree that C/Rs can't know minor thngs like very minor reroute. But the L was flat out shut down. |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 29 20:37:01 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by G1Ravage on Sun Jan 29 18:33:33 2006. Thank you for posting that.So you can drop a station on your own, but you cannot add one on your own. |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 29 20:41:28 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jan 29 19:22:05 2006. Thank you."As you probably know, a slower moving train will make fewer axle revolutions over the same distance a faster moving train does." Due to increased wheel slip/lower adhesion? A smaller wheel makes more revolutions than a larger one to go the same distance. Hence an axle mounted odometer is made inaccurate by mounting it on a wheel for which it is not calibrated. But the same wheel at different speeds? Are my proposed above reasons the cause? |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jan 29 20:43:49 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 29 20:41:28 2006. Not sure of any more specifics aside from what I posted becuase I was not told anything further. There were automated announcements about suspicious activity the last time I took Acela, but I highly doubt those were distance triggered. Station stops have been done manually since day one using the emergency intercoms. |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 29 20:47:59 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jan 29 20:43:49 2006. OK. I appreciate your posts. |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jan 29 20:52:20 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 29 20:41:28 2006. I think the theory told to Oren is incorrect. |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by tydev417 on Sun Jan 29 21:02:41 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by mambomta on Sun Jan 29 15:44:01 2006. The R160 should have a different and better programming system than the R142 and R143 though.They installed new route destination things, why wouldn't they update the announcement system too? |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by R30A on Sun Jan 29 22:40:09 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 29 15:58:37 2006. Look at the map. |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 29 22:42:24 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by R30A on Sun Jan 29 22:40:09 2006. If the blinking strip map is functioning correctly, that would be a valid option. If not, simply looking at a paper map is not always helpful if the person, for whatever reason, doesn't know which stop they just left. That situation does arise from time to time. |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Mon Jan 30 20:54:42 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 29 20:37:01 2006. So you can drop a station on your own, but you cannot add one on your own.Sure you can, if it's along the prescribed route. But if you set your train as a (4) from Crown Heights - Utica Avenue to 125 Street, but the train is really heading for 3 Avenue - 138 Street on the (6), you can't add 3 Avenue - 138 Street after 125 Street unless you want to switch over to being a (6) train, which takes longer than most would like to bother. |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by mambomta on Mon Jan 30 20:59:03 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by tydev417 on Sun Jan 29 21:02:41 2006. They installed new route destination things, why wouldn't they update the announcement system too?They did. However, it is still not advanced enough to do what it should do. |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jan 30 20:59:42 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by G1Ravage on Mon Jan 30 20:54:42 2006. Thank you. |
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Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Mon Jan 30 22:09:05 2006, in response to Re: Reprograming displays and automated announcements, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jan 30 20:59:42 2006. No prob. |
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