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| Tuscarora Almanac for May 16 (1602154) | |
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| (1602154) | |
Tuscarora Almanac for May 16 |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon May 16 07:21:14 2022 Tuscarora Almanac – May 16, 1953 – The Book of Last Runs Washington, Pennsylvania Pittsburgh Railways Company Local streetcar service comes to an end when the East & West Line is abandoned. The Pittsburgh-Washington interurban line will continue to operate for a few more months. Source: “Pennsylvania Trolleys in Color” (Morning Sun Books /1999) by Mr. William D. Volkmer Tuscarora Almanac - May 16, 1966 - The Book of First Runs Manhattan, New York New York City Transit Authority BMT and IND Divisions A free transfer point between the 6th Avenue Station of the BMT 14th Street Line and the 14th Street Station of the IND 6th Avenue Line opens today. Provision for the free transfer point had been provided in the original construction of the 6 Avenue Line in the form of unfinished eight foot wide passageways at the south end of each platform. The reason for completing the transfer point at this time was the upcoming opening of the Chrystie Street Line. Tuscarora Almanac – May 16, 1996 – The Book of Last Runs Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority Streetcar Rt. 53 Wayne Avenue is converted to buses. Source: Springirth, Kenneth C Philadelphia Electrified Rail Line in Color (2016), Morning Sun Books Memo to Tunnelrat : Tonight will be the full Flower Moon. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16 |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Mon May 16 07:50:40 2022, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for May 16, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon May 16 07:21:14 2022. I will send you a "BOO-KAY" |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16 |
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Posted by murray1575 on Mon May 16 09:19:36 2022, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for May 16, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon May 16 07:21:14 2022. I can understand why the free transfer wasn't completed when the IND line opened in 1940 but not why it took another 26 years to get it done. Many free transfer points were opened between the three formerly competing divisions in the late 1940s and the 1950s and new track connections made to integrate the IND and BMT into one division during that time as well. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16 |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Mon May 16 13:41:11 2022, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for May 16, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon May 16 07:21:14 2022. I never knew that the connection at 14th Street wasn't original. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon May 16 15:03:11 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16, posted by murray1575 on Mon May 16 09:19:36 2022. I asked the same question, last year. The 6th Ave subway, along with these connecting transfer passageways, were finished when the line opened on Dec 15th, 1940- over 6 months after Unification with the BMT. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16 |
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Posted by zac on Mon May 16 16:26:38 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16, posted by Peter Rosa on Mon May 16 13:41:11 2022. When I went to Stuy in the 60s I thought it had always been there too. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16 |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon May 16 18:07:05 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16, posted by zac on Mon May 16 16:26:38 2022. Not when I first got to NYC in Feb 66. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16 |
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Posted by murray1575 on Mon May 16 19:19:42 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16, posted by zac on Mon May 16 16:26:38 2022. I used it occasionally when I went to Stuy but I knew from the railings on the stairways it wasn't originally there. Most of the time I took the 4/5 from Grand Central or the N/Q/RR from Times Square. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16 |
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Posted by murray1575 on Mon May 16 19:34:20 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16, posted by Elkeeper on Mon May 16 15:03:11 2022. I guess that the short amount of time after unification wasn't enough to modify the plans. Don't forget that the 6th Ave. line was a difficult and very expensive line to build due to the number of existing structures it had to pass over or under including other subway and railroad lines and a city water tunnel. The 14th Street-Eastern line (as the BMT called it when it opened because it didn't go to Canarsie until the late 1920's) was only one of them. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16 |
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Posted by K. Trout on Mon May 16 23:48:35 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16, posted by murray1575 on Mon May 16 09:19:36 2022. IIRC most of the free transfers that opened between 1940 and 1966 only required removing fare gates. The only other one that I can think of besides 14/6 that required construction was the headhouse and escalators at 74/Broadway.I wonder if carving out the passageways at 14/6 required any underpinning in the express tracks? I haven't been to the station recently so I don't remember how long the passageways are. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16 |
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Posted by gbs on Tue May 17 04:42:32 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16, posted by K. Trout on Mon May 16 23:48:35 2022. I wonder if carving out the passageways at 14/6 required any underpinning in the express tracks? The passageways are simply extensions of the platforms and are next to the local tracks, but separated by walls. They weren't "carved out", they were part of the IND cut-and-cover box, and go over the west-bound L track and end over the island L platform at staircases that go down to the L. The deep-bore IND express tracks are well below the L tracks, which are below the IND local tracks. Leaving 14 St on its way to W4 St, the downtown IND local track goes over the L tracks, then dips extra deep (with timers) to go under the PATH tubes, which veer west off 6 Av onto Christopher St, and then levels off entering W4. The uptown IND local track, leaving W4, simply rises at a steady slope to go over the L tracks before entering 14 St. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16 |
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Posted by VictorM on Tue May 17 11:40:26 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16, posted by gbs on Tue May 17 04:42:32 2022. That's correct, except the uptown IND 6th Av local track leaving W4 dips down slightly to clear the PATH bellmouth turning down 9th St, before rising to 14th St. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue May 17 18:44:30 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16, posted by murray1575 on Mon May 16 19:34:20 2022. The hairiest part was at 34th St. They had to snake it over the LIRR and Pennsy tracks, beneath the BMT Broadway line and past the H&M terminus. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed May 18 12:22:16 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16, posted by murray1575 on Mon May 16 19:34:20 2022. Other free transfers were opened on June 1st, 1940. The passageways at 14th/6th had been completed by the IND. I know about the the 6th Ave construction challenges as well as the Eastern Division Subway. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16 |
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Posted by gbs on Wed May 18 13:45:10 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16, posted by VictorM on Tue May 17 11:40:26 2022. My recollection is that once it clears the switches to and from the express track, the uptown local track does a straight rise to 14 St. Since the PATH tubes are between the IND local tracks and they veer west, only the downtown IND local track has to dip below to avoid them. In the track diagrams from Peter Dougherty's maps posted on nycsubway.org, the 14 St station platforms are not properly positioned. Both the 8th Av and 6th Av IND stations are completely north of 14 St and extend to 17 St and 16 St respectively, while the IRT platforms are completely below 14 St and extend to 12 St. 
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Wed May 18 14:50:30 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16, posted by murray1575 on Mon May 16 19:34:20 2022. The Eastern Division is pretty much self contained.The J , Should be extended towards the southern Division to form some sort of connectivity.. however,it's Not . Why?nobody likes or wants the North and South trains intermingling. No interdivisional dating. 😆 |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16 |
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Posted by VictorM on Wed May 18 15:55:40 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16, posted by gbs on Wed May 18 13:45:10 2022. Check this video, starting at 4:18, from a northbound Holiday train leaving W4 St on the local track. After clearing the scissors crossover there appears to me to be a slight dip before heading upgrade to 14 St: |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16 |
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Posted by qveensboro_plaza on Wed May 18 17:39:00 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16, posted by Edwards! on Wed May 18 14:50:30 2022. The J , Should be extended towards the southern Division to form some sort of connectivityWhy? The J already connects with the Culver line at Delancey/Essex, the Brighton and Sea Beach at Canal Street, as well as (though it's a PITA transfer) the Bay Ridge line. That covers most of the Southern Division, and the West End line can be accessed at Pacific Street and 36th Street on the Fourth Ave Line. Is there really sufficient demand for a one-train ride from the Eastern Division to the Southern to justify the increased cost and equipment utilization? |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed May 18 19:03:05 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16, posted by VictorM on Wed May 18 15:55:40 2022. LOVE those old timers! |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16 |
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Posted by randyo on Thu May 19 01:56:30 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16, posted by qveensboro_plaza on Wed May 18 17:39:00 2022. Both the J (labeled QJ) and the M operated through between the Eastern and Southern Divisions when Chrystie first opened, but there probably wasn’t sufficient ridership to continue the service. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16 |
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Posted by murray1575 on Thu May 19 09:08:00 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16, posted by randyo on Thu May 19 01:56:30 2022. There was a short lived RJ too. Running those long routes is difficult for the train crews too due to the slow average speed of the J/M routes (especially the J) due to the number of sharp curves the trains have to negotiate. Riders seem to prefer the single seat ride to midtown on the M over through service back through Manhattan to the Southern Division in Brooklyn even though the full M route is almost a complete circle with its terminal stations being less than three miles apart in Queens. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16 |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Thu May 19 12:36:11 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16, posted by murray1575 on Thu May 19 09:08:00 2022. Even though the full M route is almost a complete circleThe circle should be completed Via Roosevelt <-> Fresh Pond. Consider if there was foul-up in the clockwise direction, the Counter clockwise direction would still provide service, and vice-versa! |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu May 19 12:44:09 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16, posted by murray1575 on Thu May 19 09:08:00 2022. Not to mention the diamond "R". |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16 |
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Posted by 3-9 on Thu May 19 18:36:08 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16, posted by murray1575 on Mon May 16 19:19:42 2022. Yeah, that passageway definitely has that '60's style, same as Grand St. I always thought it was original myself, even if the style was incongruent. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16 |
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Posted by murray1575 on Thu May 19 22:01:02 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue May 17 18:44:30 2022. The H&M station was actually relocated. Even though it is still called 33rd St. it is actually between 30th and 32nd. As a result the 28th St. H&M station was made redundant and closed. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16 |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Fri May 20 13:49:53 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 16, posted by qveensboro_plaza on Wed May 18 17:39:00 2022. Plus, people can use the A/C line to connect between the J at Broadway Junction and the F, as well as the R, at Jay St./Metrotech. |
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