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| El-style 3rd rail question (1601894) | |
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| (1601921) | |
Re: El-style 3rd rail question |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed May 11 15:58:48 2022, in response to El-style 3rd rail question, posted by gbs on Tue May 10 22:20:25 2022. I will not go into the minutia but IRT contact shoes are physically different and gauged at a different height from B division contact shoes. |
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| (1601922) | |
Re: El-style 3rd rail question |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed May 11 18:02:07 2022, in response to Re: El-style 3rd rail question, posted by Train Dude on Wed May 11 15:58:48 2022. Really? Apparently not much of a difference since all Flushing Line equipment has to travel on B division rail to get to and fro the rest of the outside world. |
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| (1601928) | |
Re: El-style 3rd rail question |
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Posted by VictorM on Wed May 11 18:25:03 2022, in response to Re: El-style 3rd rail question, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed May 11 18:02:07 2022. It isn't much of a difference, but you often see considerable arcing when IRT trains use IND/BMT routes for equipment moves. |
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| (1601929) | |
Re: El-style 3rd rail question |
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Posted by VictorM on Wed May 11 18:43:17 2022, in response to El-style 3rd rail question, posted by gbs on Tue May 10 22:20:25 2022. Years ago some BMT and IRT trains used "universal" angled third rail shoes that could run on either subway or el type third rail, provided the subway third rail was uncovered. Here's an example on the Flushing el: (from nyc subway.org) |
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| (1601930) | |
Re: El-style 3rd rail question |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed May 11 19:34:19 2022, in response to Re: El-style 3rd rail question, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed May 11 18:02:07 2022. I dont know about now but there was a compromise gauge that they were adjusted with before going over the B Division |
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| (1601939) | |
Re: El-style 3rd rail question |
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Posted by italianguyinsi on Wed May 11 21:36:38 2022, in response to El-style 3rd rail question, posted by gbs on Tue May 10 22:20:25 2022. I am curious about this. The 3rd rail chairs and rail itself was subway type, since in 1919 the ABs started to run down the new el to the new Coney terminal.In many photos of the Culver el, the third rail is uncovered, but covered again near the station and at the down grade to level outside 9th Avenue. I am thinking that this was subway type third rail all along - a lot of rolling stock through the years was used - ABs, D types, R units, etc. - I also remember equipment coming in from 4th Avenue line and/or West End, MU lash ups being halved, and switched back to the lower level. |
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| (1601940) | |
Re: El-style 3rd rail question |
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Posted by italianguyinsi on Wed May 11 21:53:35 2022, in response to El-style 3rd rail question, posted by gbs on Tue May 10 22:20:25 2022. I am curious about this. The 3rd rail chairs and rail itself was subway type, since in 1919 the ABs started to run down the new el to the new Coney terminal.In many photos of the Culver el, the third rail is uncovered, but covered again near the station and at the down grade to level outside 9th Avenue. I am thinking that this was subway type third rail all along - a lot of rolling stock through the years was used - ABs, D types, R units, etc. - I also remember equipment coming in from 4th Avenue line and/or West End, MU lash ups being halved, and switched back to the lower level. |
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| (1601946) | |
Re: El-style 3rd rail question |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu May 12 06:11:18 2022, in response to Re: El-style 3rd rail question, posted by italianguyinsi on Wed May 11 21:36:38 2022. Was anything R32 - R42 every run on the Culver Shuttle ? |
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| (1602004) | |
Re: El-style 3rd rail question |
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Posted by italianguyinsi on Thu May 12 20:54:01 2022, in response to Re: El-style 3rd rail question, posted by Joe V on Thu May 12 06:11:18 2022. No. ABs, D Types, R1-R9s, R16s, R27s/R30s. I don't recall R38s, R40S/M or R42s. |
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| (1602042) | |
Re: El-style 3rd rail question |
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Posted by Dan on Fri May 13 17:37:30 2022, in response to Re: El-style 3rd rail question, posted by italianguyinsi on Thu May 12 20:54:01 2022. No but for some strange reason R44s came with 'SS' Culver shuttle signage. That would have been something to see in service.Photo: Facebook / Steve Zabel, date and location unkown - 
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| (1602138) | |
Re: El-style 3rd rail question |
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Posted by italianguyinsi on Sun May 15 17:56:38 2022, in response to Re: El-style 3rd rail question, posted by Dan on Fri May 13 17:37:30 2022. Yes, it sure would have! |
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| (1602145) | |
Re: El-style 3rd rail question |
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Posted by randyo on Mon May 16 02:54:28 2022, in response to Re: El-style 3rd rail question, posted by italianguyinsi on Wed May 11 21:53:35 2022. The Culver was originally el type 3rd rail since the Culver was served both by subway trains and el trains coming off the 5th Ave el. |
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| (1602171) | |
Re: El-style 3rd rail question |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon May 16 13:34:04 2022, in response to Re: El-style 3rd rail question, posted by randyo on Mon May 16 02:54:28 2022. Didn't Culver have Both third rail types,like the Bronx IRT ELEVATED lines? |
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| (1602179) | |
Re: El-style 3rd rail question |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon May 16 15:04:15 2022, in response to Re: El-style 3rd rail question, posted by Edwards! on Mon May 16 13:34:04 2022. I believe you are correct about that! |
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| (1602196) | |
Re: El-style 3rd rail question |
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Posted by randyo on Mon May 16 18:45:49 2022, in response to Re: El-style 3rd rail question, posted by Elkeeper on Mon May 16 15:04:15 2022. The BMT only had el type 3rd rail in areas where there was dual service. The subway contact shoes were able to ride up and get power from the el 3rd rail in places where it was installed. Considering that the IRT had a bit of a reputation for being a cheap outfit, it is surprising that it chose to install 2 types of 3rd rails on lines with dual service instead of designing a single shoe tat could work with both types the way the BMT did. |
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| (1602211) | |
Re: El-style 3rd rail question |
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Posted by VictorM on Mon May 16 20:21:07 2022, in response to Re: El-style 3rd rail question, posted by randyo on Mon May 16 18:45:49 2022. The IRT did have an angled shoe that could work on either type 3rd rail, as seen here on the Flushing line, but I don't know why they installed both types when the elevated type alone could handle could handle both the IRT subway trains and the BMT shuttle trains. It could be so that the line would be ready when they removed the shuttles and the el type third rail. |
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| (1602216) | |
Re: El-style 3rd rail question |
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Posted by qveensboro_plaza on Mon May 16 22:09:29 2022, in response to Re: El-style 3rd rail question, posted by VictorM on Mon May 16 20:21:07 2022. I don't know why they installed both types when the elevated type alone could handle could handle both the IRT subway trains and the BMT shuttle trains.I think the original Joint Service plan was to run BMT steel cars to Astoria and Corona along with the IRT Steinways and Second Avenue elevated cars. Hence the need for both types of third rail. By the time the 60th Street connection was made, however, it was apparent that this arrangement would not be practical, and so BMT el cars were brought in to provide shuttle service east of QBP. |
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