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| (1601903) | |
Tuscarora Almanac for May 11 |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed May 11 07:44:13 2022 Tuscarora Almanac – May 11, 1940 – The Book of First Runs Corona, Queens, New York New York City Board of Transportation Independent Subway System The World’s Fair station on the IND World’s Fair Line opens for the 1940 season. Service will be provided by “GG” at all times and on Saturday and Sunday evenings by “E” trains carrying “S” signs. Source: New York Division Bulletin / September 2007 Tuscarora Almanac – May 11, 1941 – The Book of First Runs Tallulah, Louisiana Missouri Pacific Railroad The Missouri Pacific Railroad launches a new train service known as “The Delta Eagle”. Service will operate over a 259 mile route between Tallulah, Louisiana and Memphis, Tennessee. Source: “Route of the Eagles” (White River Productions / 1995) by Mr. Greg Stout Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1601904) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11 |
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Posted by Joe on Wed May 11 09:01:55 2022, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for May 11, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed May 11 07:44:13 2022. Regarding the Delta Eagle, there are comments at |
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| (1601905) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11 |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Wed May 11 09:27:29 2022, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for May 11, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed May 11 07:44:13 2022. If the World's Fair line had been made permanent, it would have provided service to parts of Queens that are otherwise beyond reach of the subway. |
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| (1601907) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11 |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed May 11 10:35:43 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11, posted by Peter Rosa on Wed May 11 09:27:29 2022. If the World's Fair line had been made permanent, it would have provided service to parts of Queens that are otherwise beyond reach of the subway.The ROW was entirely within park land on a swamp, adjacent to lakes and a cemetery. The cemetery residents may have voted but they could not have supported a subway line. Any eastward extension would have encountered an immediate 70 ft climb. |
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| (1601908) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11 |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 11 12:37:20 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed May 11 10:35:43 2022. That doesn’t make any sense. The most valuable thing when it comes to a subway extension is an intact ROW. Had the line been extended, the fair station would have been demolished and replaced with an incline leading to an elevated structure. |
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| (1601910) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11 |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Wed May 11 12:53:21 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed May 11 10:35:43 2022. Kew Gardens Hills definitely could use a nearby subway line. |
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| (1601963) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11 |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu May 12 11:28:00 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11, posted by Peter Rosa on Wed May 11 12:53:21 2022. Kew Gardens Hills definitely could use a nearby subway line.I'm quite familiar with Kew Gardens Hills, having lived there in the 1950's. I also go back there for a weekly dose of lox. The demographics have changed considerably, since when I lived there. Much of the adjacent street grid was in place at the time the Worlds Fair line was built. So were many of the houses, except for the garden apartments that were built on the Arrowbrook Golf Course. Where would a subway station be located? Those closest to the Worlds Fair station are residents of Mt Hebron Cemetery. Any station location would need a through street to reach the station. The only ones are Jewel and 72nd Aves. Now for some important questions regarding an already built up area. Could Kew Gardens Hills support a subway station? It could not support the Vleigh Place Shuttle bus to the Union Tpk station. According to the 2020 census, it has a population of 39,651. According to the 2018 LEHD census, 11,052 have primary jobs. This total would be Kew Gardens Hills' primary market for a subway stop. How many would find a stop on the Queens Blv line use for their commute to work? The 739 who work within 1 mile of their residence would not. The 1533 who work in Nassau and Suffolk Counties wouldn't use the stop. The connection would be of marginal use to the 4620 who work in Brooklyn, Queens or the Bronx. The 3719 Kew Gardens Hills residents who had jobs in Manhattan are the market. That's too small a number to support a subway station. It explains why the Vleigh Place Shuttle didn't last an economy cut and has not been restored. How many of Kew Gardens Hills 39,651 residents would be within the 1/2 mile walking distance of a subway station on the Worlds Fair line? Let's consider 3 through street stops: Horace Harding (the Worlds Fair stop), Jewel Ave, and 72nd Ave. The totals are: Horace Harding - 0 (residents of Mt Hebron Cemetery not counted in census) Jewel Ave - 5760 72nd Ave - 10068 That's a total of 15,828 or 40% of the Kew Gardens Hills residents. 60% would be beyond walking distance due to the location of the Worlds Fair line. |
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| (1601964) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11 |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu May 12 11:34:53 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 11 12:37:20 2022. The most valuable thing when it comes to a subway extension is an intact ROW.The Worlds Fair line was quickly and cheaply built to last 2 seasons. It was built on a wooden platform over the swamp. The platform was supported by wooden piles that were driven to the point of resistance. The piles were not driven to bedrock. (Look at the Worlds Fair Subway book section on the line's construction). It's highly doubtful the creosote laden wood piles would have lasted. It's highly likely the wood piles would have settled a bit, making the ROW's use questionable. |
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| (1601965) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11 |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 12 11:50:21 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu May 12 11:34:53 2022. You’re thinking about it in terms of the infrastructure, I’m thinking about it in terms of the real property. |
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| (1601967) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11 |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu May 12 11:58:38 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 12 11:50:21 2022. I’m thinking about it in terms of the real property."Real property" built on quicksand isn't "real property". |
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| (1601969) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11 |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 12 12:26:52 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu May 12 11:58:38 2022. “Real property” is not built. If you want to say that the ROW was not “improved,” then fine, but I’m saying that’s irrelevant. |
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| (1601998) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11 |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Thu May 12 19:40:57 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 12 12:26:52 2022. Basically, that RoW might not have been very valuable for a permanent subway line without a lot of expensive work. The Nassau Expressway RoW alongside the east side of Rockaway Blvd is still available after 70-80 years but one big reason that it is still vacant is that it was mostly swamp land. |
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| (1601999) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11 |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu May 12 19:49:00 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11, posted by Andrew Saucci on Thu May 12 19:40:57 2022. My great grandparents got kicked out of their home in Inwood in the 1960's to build that road. |
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| (1602006) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11 |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 12 22:11:59 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11, posted by Andrew Saucci on Thu May 12 19:40:57 2022. Except that the WF line ROW is not vacant, they built an expressway along it instead. |
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| (1602007) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11 |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Thu May 12 23:24:08 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 12 22:11:59 2022. Point taken. Moses would part the Red Sea for an expressway if he had the money, but not for a subway line. I guess he ran out of money by the time he got to the Nassau Expressway. |
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| (1602009) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11 |
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Posted by VictorM on Fri May 13 01:25:33 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 12 22:11:59 2022. And the expressway was basically a "washboard road" between the LIE and Union Turnpike for the first 10 or 15 years after it in opened in late 1963. It took a long time to stabilize it. |
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| (1602016) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11 |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 13 11:02:28 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11, posted by Andrew Saucci on Thu May 12 23:24:08 2022. And in Chicago they built all the expressways with medians for transit, some of which were built years later. We would have had a true Van Wyck line (with stops, unlike the AirTrain) and an LIE line to Queens College or possibly even Springfield Blvd or Little Neck Parkway if Robert Moses wasn’t such an asshole. |
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| (1602017) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11 |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri May 13 11:13:17 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 13 11:02:28 2022. The people who allowed that asshole to acquire such power are the true assholes. |
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| (1602018) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11 |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 13 12:26:59 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri May 13 11:13:17 2022. Al Smith? |
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| (1602040) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11 |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri May 13 17:25:05 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri May 13 11:13:17 2022. Maybe. But who let him keep all that power? Nobody had any foresight to see what power he might (and did) acquire. |
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| (1602041) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11 |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 13 17:27:35 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri May 13 17:25:05 2022. Rockefeller eventually neutered him by creating the MTA, but that was in his third term in office. |
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| (1602048) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri May 13 20:10:23 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11, posted by Andrew Saucci on Thu May 12 23:24:08 2022. I'm sure he'd part the waters of Long Island Sound.:) |
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| (1602050) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11 |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Fri May 13 20:17:56 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri May 13 20:10:23 2022. He gave it the old college try. |
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| (1602054) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11 |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri May 13 21:29:38 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 13 17:27:35 2022. Yep. But by then the damage was already done |
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| (1602055) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11 |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri May 13 21:35:25 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri May 13 20:10:23 2022. If he would have built a bridge from say Rye to Oyster Bay & told the NIMBYS to go stick it, I'd have a better opinion of him. Going from Upstate NY to LI means going thru NYC, truly rectal pain to say the least. |
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| (1602056) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11 |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 13 21:51:47 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri May 13 21:35:25 2022. IAWTP |
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| (1602063) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat May 14 08:27:28 2022, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 11, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 13 21:51:47 2022. I'll third that. |
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