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(1596156)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Jan 26 07:09:57 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jan 24 15:29:41 2022.

Thanks. I'd wondered how much, if any, of the 57th Street station was built as part of the original IND.

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(1596161)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Jan 26 07:50:07 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Jan 24 08:24:36 2022.

During rush hours Metro North runs 3 tracks in the peak direction and
1track in the off peak direction (to:Grand Central AM, from Grand
Central PM). The New Haven line uses the inner pair of tracks at
stations served only by Harlem Line Trains.

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(1596163)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 26 08:43:36 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by randyo on Sat Jan 22 01:18:38 2022.

I know, hence the "lot of work" qualifier. A rebuild would have been necessary.

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(1596164)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 26 08:46:34 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by Elkeeper on Tue Jan 25 15:08:44 2022.

The current 63rd st tracks were to connect to the SAS at 61st St. The SAS from here to 125th St was supposed to be 6 tracks in the original 1929 proposal.

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(1596165)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jan 26 08:48:03 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by randyo on Wed Jan 26 02:46:32 2022.

Even if it were demolished it would be fine as it would have to be demolished and replaced anyway. It was extremely short-sighted of them to sell off the ROW.

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(1596166)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 26 08:49:40 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Jan 24 10:44:36 2022.

Indeed, all 4 tracks are needed for commuter service. I also can't believe the south Jamaica extension of the Archer Ave line could have used the Atlantic
Branch, with everything else squeezed onto the Montauk branch, even with the assumption the West Hempstead branch would be abandoned.

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(1596167)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 26 08:50:36 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by MainR3664 on Wed Jan 26 07:09:57 2022.

I dont think the station was, just the tracks and connection.

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(1596168)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jan 26 09:15:14 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 26 08:50:36 2022.

No. Just the provisions for the connection north of 47-50.

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(1596170)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by TUNNELRAT on Wed Jan 26 10:29:09 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 26 08:46:34 2022.

4 upper tracks were for the IND,2 lower tracks were for new york central.

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(1596173)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by rashidas on Wed Jan 26 12:17:47 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by MainR3664 on Wed Jan 26 07:07:59 2022.

Will phase 3 and 4 of the 2nd Avenue subway be entirely under ground? Is there a plan to connect it to any existing subway lines?

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(1596178)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by VictorM on Wed Jan 26 12:33:44 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by rashidas on Wed Jan 26 12:17:47 2022.

Phase 3 and 4 of the SAS are planned to be entirely underground. There were plans to connect it to the 63 St subway coming from Queens (now used by the F train). Bellmouths exist on the 63 St line for that purpose.

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(1596179)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by Italianstallion on Wed Jan 26 12:46:10 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by randyo on Wed Jan 26 02:43:56 2022.

Yes, and subway on the Harlem ROW would allow elimination of many Harlem Line local trains.

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(1596180)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by Italianstallion on Wed Jan 26 12:51:55 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Jan 26 07:50:07 2022.

But, clearly there are gaps in that service since they have to allow room for the merging of Hudson Line service at 125 th St. So all 4 tracks in the Bronx are not completely occupied.

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(1596188)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Jan 26 13:41:55 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Jan 24 10:44:36 2022.

Maybe the plan was to eliminate local railroad service?

In any event, it never got anywhere...

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(1596193)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jan 26 15:35:19 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 25 16:48:49 2022.

I'll spell it out once again!!! There were no provisions to connect to a Second Ave subway in the original (1929) plans, or in the plans drawn up after the Second World War. There, I spelled it out. Once again, I am NOT interested in anything that the MTA did. The Archer Ave fiasco turned me off to anything that the MTA did, was doing, or what they ever planned to do!

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(1596194)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jan 26 15:47:36 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jan 26 15:35:19 2022.

Nice map! Other than the one block on 6th Ave, north of 53rd St, there were no existing connections to an SAS, prior to the MTA takeover. like bellmouths at 53rd/2nd.

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(1596195)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jan 26 15:50:32 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jan 26 15:35:19 2022.

If you’re going to be so confident, don’t be wrong. Not only did the provisions north of Rockefeller Center speak for themselves, so did the 1929 Second System map I already posted.

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(1596196)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jan 26 15:51:32 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jan 26 15:47:36 2022.

Which was a connection from 6th to 2nd via 61st, before the MTA was even a gleam in Nelson Rockefeller’s eye.

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(1596198)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jan 26 16:06:37 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jan 26 15:50:32 2022.

No, I agree with the spur block spur north of 53rd/6th. You are correct about that. I was talking about the non-existent bellmouths at 53rd/2nd, and anywhere else on the 6th And 8th Ave IND lines.

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(1596199)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jan 26 16:10:56 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 26 08:50:36 2022.

This is why I said there were no provisions for any IND connection to a 2nd Ave subway. I changed my mind when I saw the 1929 proposed route map.

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(1596200)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jan 26 16:14:00 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jan 26 16:06:37 2022.

I don’t think anybody thought that there were any plans by the IND to connect 53rd to the SAS.

You said there were no provisions for a connection to the sixth or eighth avenue subways. This was one (and the only one).

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(1596202)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by randyo on Wed Jan 26 16:32:45 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jan 26 08:48:03 2022.

The NYW&B infrastructure was so overbuilt it would have been OK without any modification.

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(1596205)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by TUNNELRAT on Wed Jan 26 17:34:49 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by randyo on Wed Jan 26 16:32:45 2022.

rando,any idea when bob goffin oassed?

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(1596206)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jan 26 17:52:51 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by randyo on Wed Jan 26 16:32:45 2022.

Maybe, but it would have been quite decrepit.

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(1596215)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by Edwards! on Wed Jan 26 21:21:25 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by Italianstallion on Wed Jan 26 12:46:10 2022.

Elevated subway above the Harlem line is what was planned, replacing the Third Avenue line.
It eventually would have connected to the SAS at 138th st, making the line an official B division route.
Today,it's effectively hard pressed t gt the MTA Capital Construction to even look at modified plans that THEY DIDN'T BENEFIT FROM CASH WISE.

DO you honestly believe that Any extension from 96th st to 125 st will cost 6.5 Billion dollars,with a major section of the route already built?
The present structure will house the 116th station,and needs to be rebuilt.

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(1596216)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by Edwards! on Wed Jan 26 21:34:13 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by VictorM on Wed Jan 26 12:33:44 2022.

Phase Three should be built Before the Harlem section,or at least at the same time.
Service should be run as far as 34th st,with trains from Queens.

The line should be connected to the rest of the system downtown.
Montague Tunnel is perfect for a connection.


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(1596218)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Jan 27 01:09:07 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by Edwards! on Wed Jan 26 21:21:25 2022.

Transit has joined the DoD in vacuuming up funds with precious little toshow when the project is declared finished. Sadly MTA is not the only, just the worst, but BART, WMATA,and others are in the running.

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(1596229)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by Joe V on Thu Jan 27 11:54:40 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by Edwards! on Wed Jan 26 21:21:25 2022.

< DO you honestly believe that Any extension from 96th st to 125 st will cost 6.5 Billion dollars,with a major section of the route already built? ?

The MTA will piss that much money away, and likely then some on cost overruns. Don't you worry. They got that covered.

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(1596233)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by Avid Reader on Thu Jan 27 12:24:36 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 25 16:54:55 2022.

Oh, if only.

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(1596241)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Jan 27 14:39:33 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by Joe V on Thu Jan 27 11:54:40 2022.

True that.

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(1596242)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Jan 27 14:41:47 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by Joe V on Thu Jan 27 11:54:40 2022.

AMEN to that!

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(1596244)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by jimmymc25 on Thu Jan 27 16:03:54 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by Joe V on Thu Jan 27 11:54:40 2022.

The worst part is that it keeps happening & happening time after time.

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(1596246)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Jan 27 16:55:13 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 25 16:54:55 2022.

Interesting proposals. For me, one surprise was that the IND under Hillside Ave, Queens ran only as far as 178th or 179th St, as it does today.

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(1596248)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Jan 27 18:18:13 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by jimmymc25 on Thu Jan 27 16:03:54 2022.

The real story is that government projects exist to hand out patronage to the bribing kleptocrats. Actual public benefit is incidental.

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(1596268)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Jan 28 08:33:53 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Jan 27 16:55:13 2022.

ends at 184st.

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(1596367)

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Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx

Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jan 29 20:19:33 2022, in response to Re: 2nd Avenue el to the Bronx, posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Jan 28 08:33:53 2022.

Yes, dad, I remember when you told us kiddies all about that and the subway vent grills!

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