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What was a proposal Map

Posted by Avid Reader on Thu Jan 13 10:54:07 2022

Curiosity found in a shoe box.



What do you think, and then where to?

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Re: What was a proposal Map

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jan 13 11:04:02 2022, in response to What was a proposal Map, posted by Avid Reader on Thu Jan 13 10:54:07 2022.

Strange choices for station locations.

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(1595172)

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Re: What was a proposal Map

Posted by Q4 on Thu Jan 13 12:09:45 2022, in response to What was a proposal Map, posted by Avid Reader on Thu Jan 13 10:54:07 2022.

I guess the stations were set up for every 8 - 10 blocks. Note that Cross Island Boulevard is what the name was supposed to be back when this proposal was created in the 20's or 30's but was actually named Francis Lewis Boulevard.

I suppose the trail tracks after the terminal at Springfield Boulevard could have used to extend service to the city line.

I recall reading somewhere that work was done in preparation of this proposal including construction of some underpasses for roads to go underneath the subway (like I guess similar to the Grand Concourse) however they were sealed up and never used.

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(1595183)

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Re: What was a proposal Map

Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Jan 13 13:40:53 2022, in response to What was a proposal Map, posted by Avid Reader on Thu Jan 13 10:54:07 2022.

I have always thought that 179th St was a strange choice for an express stop and intermediate terminal, especially back in 1931. It was only 2 stops east of Parsons Blvd. Not to mention the 8 bi-level tracks, somewhat similar to the layout south of Church Ave (F & G). This route was to have continues east on Hillside Ave to Little Neck Pkwy, I think.

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Re: What was a proposal Map

Posted by K. Trout on Thu Jan 13 22:02:23 2022, in response to Re: What was a proposal Map, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Jan 13 13:40:53 2022.

Layup tracks were built as far as 178th as part of the original construction of the line. Apparently the original IND plan did have a station at 178th but that was eliminated at some point when the first phase of construction was cut back to 169th, and the residents of Jamaica Estates petitioned to add a station in the layup area even before construction was finished. I suppose at the time it was assumed that the Second System would be approved so 169th was probably always thought of as a temporarily terminal anyway.

Building a station within the existing tunnel would be too close to 169th for the IND's standard half-mile spacing; it was finally agreed to build a station east of where the layup tracks ended. Presumably the BOT decided to make it a proper terminal, not knowing at the time if further eastward expansion would be possible.

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(1595252)

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Re: What was a proposal Map

Posted by ntrainride on Thu Jan 13 23:31:46 2022, in response to What was a proposal Map, posted by Avid Reader on Thu Jan 13 10:54:07 2022.

that is excellent.

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(1595298)

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Re: What was a proposal Map

Posted by Mitch45 on Fri Jan 14 10:30:06 2022, in response to What was a proposal Map, posted by Avid Reader on Thu Jan 13 10:54:07 2022.

Iíve always thought that the line should have ended at 188th Street, not at 179th Street. 188th Street is a major north-south roadway in Queens that has a number of bus routes. The tail tracks under Hillside run to 184th Street so it would have been a matter of extending the tracks four blocks and then building a terminal.

I used to use the 179th Street stop to get to my doctorís office when I was a teenager. It really is an odd place for a terminal.

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Re: What was a proposal Map

Posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Jan 14 10:32:55 2022, in response to Re: What was a proposal Map, posted by K. Trout on Thu Jan 13 22:02:23 2022.

If that's true then how could a document from 1931 show the 179th St. terminal? Is this drawing authentic?

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Re: What was a proposal Map

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Jan 14 10:33:55 2022, in response to Re: What was a proposal Map, posted by Mitch45 on Fri Jan 14 10:30:06 2022.

IIRC, the last time I was out along Hillside Ave, street ventilation grates go to 188th St.

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(1595316)

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Re: What was a proposal Map

Posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Jan 14 13:08:45 2022, in response to Re: What was a proposal Map, posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Jan 14 10:32:55 2022.

drawing is authentic taken from BOT files by jeff erlitz of ERA fame-n- nyct.

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(1595320)

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Re: What was a proposal Map

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 14 13:30:54 2022, in response to Re: What was a proposal Map, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Jan 14 10:33:55 2022.

The easternmost grating appears to be at 184th Place.

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(1595323)

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Re: What was a proposal Map

Posted by jailhousedoc on Fri Jan 14 13:48:15 2022, in response to What was a proposal Map, posted by Avid Reader on Thu Jan 13 10:54:07 2022.

Springfield Blvd. and Hillside Ave. on the street level has a wide plaza like area where a subway terminal could have been placed - along with enough space for a yard underground with several storage tracks. This area goes eastward to Winchester Blvd. - an extension of the subway out to there might not meet with much opposition as the neighborhood has changed and there are more people living in the vicinity. Many times I froze while waiting for a bus at 179th Street and Hillside - an extension of the subway would have made my commute much easier, especially during and after a major snow storm. If I could get this idea to the governor and live to see it built, I would feel that I accomplished a major benefit to the people in Eastern Queens.

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(1595443)

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Re: What was a proposal Map

Posted by Think twice on Sat Jan 15 19:39:58 2022, in response to What was a proposal Map, posted by Avid Reader on Thu Jan 13 10:54:07 2022.

Here's what the line would look like. I personally think it should extend all the way to the edge of queens.

ORANGE is this original plan. BROWN my idea for an extension to Langdale Ave. Stations are included in PINK. Objects are clickable.



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(1595453)

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Re: What was a proposal Map

Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Jan 15 22:02:16 2022, in response to Re: What was a proposal Map, posted by Mitch45 on Fri Jan 14 10:30:06 2022.

Once or twice I took the F to 179 St and switched to a bus back to Nassau County rather than wait an hour at Jamaica for an LIRR train at extra expense. I kind of agree about 179 St being an odd place for a subway terminal. It isn't really near the original Jamaica bus terminal or anything else and it's a congested area. That's probably one suggestion that it wasn't meant to be a terminal. Maybe some day it will get extended, but if it costs $20 billion to get it done, forget it. The MTA needs to become more efficient at subway construction, or maybe an extension needs to be something like the AirTrain on the Van Wyck Expressway to cut costs. Maybe a ramp up at Springfield Blvd in that wide median space followed by a march out to the Nassau County line and even a spur to Belmont Park would do the trick.

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Re: What was a proposal Map

Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Jan 15 22:07:14 2022, in response to Re: What was a proposal Map, posted by jailhousedoc on Fri Jan 14 13:48:15 2022.

"Many times I froze while waiting for a bus at 179th Street and Hillside..."

It's the same thing at Parsons Blvd at the E terminal, which is one reason why I eventually gave up the bus and subway combination even though I could go from upper Manhattan all the way home to Nassau County on one fare. Going into Manhattan was okay as you just got off the bus and went directly to the subway without having to wait too long. Going home, I just got tired of standing out in the cold in the winter and sweltering in the summer along with just missing the bus and having to wait as much as a half hour. At some point I gained more self-respect than that. Today I probably couldn't deal with it physically.

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(1595474)

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Re: What was a proposal Map

Posted by Edwards! on Sun Jan 16 00:41:11 2022, in response to Re: What was a proposal Map, posted by jailhousedoc on Fri Jan 14 13:48:15 2022.

There is a subway tunnel out there. Part of the sneaky IND second system building.

Another spot is Steinway st and Broadway...part of the 76th st river tunnel connection,with the 21st st subway line branch off the 60th st tunnel. So many unused branch headers...waste of money

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