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New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled

Posted by GojiMet86 on Wed Jan 12 11:45:54 2022

Source:





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(1595059)

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Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled

Posted by Easy on Wed Jan 12 14:30:14 2022, in response to New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled, posted by GojiMet86 on Wed Jan 12 11:45:54 2022.

Looks amateurish.

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(1595060)

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Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled

Posted by Q23 on Wed Jan 12 14:34:38 2022, in response to New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled, posted by GojiMet86 on Wed Jan 12 11:45:54 2022.

Meh, personally I think a more modernized look of the existing rail stock would have been enough and looked better.

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(1595087)

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Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled

Posted by Mack C-49 on Wed Jan 12 19:37:35 2022, in response to New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled, posted by GojiMet86 on Wed Jan 12 11:45:54 2022.

NYCTA flirted with slop-ended cars in the late 60s. That didn't go especially well in the Big Apple.

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(1595089)

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Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled

Posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Jan 12 20:10:05 2022, in response to Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled, posted by Mack C-49 on Wed Jan 12 19:37:35 2022.

It's more like what BART did with the A cars and it just became a major operational headache.

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(1595101)

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Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled

Posted by ntrainride on Wed Jan 12 23:09:43 2022, in response to New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled, posted by GojiMet86 on Wed Jan 12 11:45:54 2022.

not a fan. gimme good ol' shoebox cars.

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(1595104)

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Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jan 13 00:42:33 2022, in response to New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled, posted by GojiMet86 on Wed Jan 12 11:45:54 2022.

Are the trains going to do 150 mph? If not, no need for this revenue-seat-robbing design.

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(1595105)

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Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Jan 13 00:56:28 2022, in response to Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled, posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Jan 12 20:10:05 2022.


Right you are. BART WMATA, MARTA, sadly are the poster children for crappy design, poor route choices, and vast overruns.

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(1595106)

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Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Jan 13 00:57:11 2022, in response to Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled, posted by ntrainride on Wed Jan 12 23:09:43 2022.

yes.

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(1595107)

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Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Jan 13 00:57:59 2022, in response to Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jan 13 00:42:33 2022.

good lord,olog,I agree w/you.

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(1595118)

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Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled

Posted by Sand Box John on Thu Jan 13 08:09:37 2022, in response to Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Jan 13 00:56:28 2022.

Right you are. BART WMATA, MARTA, sadly are the poster children for crappy design, poor route choices, and vast overruns.

Those three railroad were built in a different era under different transit planning modal. All were primarily built to move commuters in and out of the urban cores they served. WMATA, MARTA and to lesser extent BART were built during a time of high inflation. WMATA's ground braking was delayed a year and a half by a certain Kentucky Democrat Member of the House, that also added to the cost.

As to the new MARTA car design. All I can say is, what a waste precious interior space.

John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore.



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(1595136)

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Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled

Posted by Avid Reader on Thu Jan 13 10:35:55 2022, in response to Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled, posted by Sand Box John on Thu Jan 13 08:09:37 2022.

It's okay for a number of cab cars.
Say in six or eight-car sets.

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(1595196)

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Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Jan 13 14:41:38 2022, in response to Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled, posted by Sand Box John on Thu Jan 13 08:09:37 2022.

BART and WMATA IMO are the transit systems built on the DoD model--hugely overpriced deliberately non-standard hardware and general disregard of decades of experience of successful systems. Add to that, the monumentalist architecture where an IND station would do just as well and choosing vendors who had zero rail related history or technical expertise.

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(1595197)

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Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled

Posted by Jersey Mike on Thu Jan 13 14:42:01 2022, in response to Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled, posted by Avid Reader on Thu Jan 13 10:35:55 2022.

The fixed set model will be one of those fads like 75 feet cars on the NYCTA. Any problem in any of the 6 or 8 cars takes the entire set out. Because of the open gangways the set has to take of 6 or 8 spaces on a pit track. Also no matter how light the demand MARTA has to run full length trains.

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(1595199)

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Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Jan 13 14:54:37 2022, in response to Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled, posted by Jersey Mike on Thu Jan 13 14:42:01 2022.

So the history of RRs goes back to being able to switch in or outcars to meet need (freight or passenger) The geniuses designing Acela (I and II) and drawbarred transit cars seem not to understand tailoring train length to the market.

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Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled

Posted by Sand Box John on Thu Jan 13 21:57:11 2022, in response to Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Jan 13 14:41:38 2022.

BART and WMATA IMO are the transit systems built on the DoD model--hugely overpriced deliberately non-standard hardware and general disregard of decades of experience of successful systems. Add to that, the monumentalist architecture where an IND station would do just as well and choosing vendors who had zero rail related history or technical expertise.

Unlike BART, WMATA chose to split the difference, They chose a cab signaling technology that had been in use for more then 50 years and took it step further and added automation to it.

As to the "monumentalist architecture" I had this argument with a poster on USENET over 25 years ago. The Romans figured out that an arch was structurally more efficient then a box more then 2,000 years ago.

The amount of concrete and steel that was used to build the 450' long box stations of the Baltimore Metro is roughly the same as what was used to build 600' long arched stations of the Washington Metro.

It provides a column less space with the use of less material.

John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore.

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(1595244)

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Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled

Posted by Sand Box John on Thu Jan 13 22:33:21 2022, in response to Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Jan 13 14:54:37 2022.

So the history of RRs goes back to being able to switch in or outcars to meet need (freight or passenger) The geniuses designing Acela (I and II) and drawbarred transit cars seem not to understand tailoring train length to the market.

Married pair car sets reduces the procurement and maintenance costs of various subsystem by one half that are shared between the two cars in the Married pair.

Simpler to leave a train of the same length consist out on the railroad all day then cut cars off and add them back between times of peak service. WMATA learned that doing that was a waste of time labor more the 35 years ago.

As to Acela now that a whole different can of worms. I think the USDOT and Amtrak should have further developed the Metroliner EMU instead of going with the Acela train sets.

John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore.

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(1595253)

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Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled

Posted by randyo on Thu Jan 13 23:34:57 2022, in response to Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled, posted by Jersey Mike on Thu Jan 13 14:42:01 2022.

Just because a trainset had open gangways doesnít mean the individual cars canít be separated. Either half the gangway can go with 2 separate cars or a single gangway can go with one car or another.

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(1595265)

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Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jan 14 04:19:25 2022, in response to Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled, posted by Sand Box John on Thu Jan 13 21:57:11 2022.

from wikipedia
https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/S-F-s-Manny-Yekutiel-said-he-has-cancer-16771193.php

It is not the arches per se so much as the unnecessarily immense sizes.In fact my favorite BART stations all have shallow arches on the fare mezzanine. But that is exactlt the problem. Those mezzanines are tall enough for the trains. there was no need tohave the platforms another level below.

I have always favored shallow cut and cover for a combination of reasons. While I am not against beauty in subway architecture, I do believe utility should override--case in point. Think of the time wasted with multiple escalators to extra deep stations versus say local stations on the original subway in NYC. You will still be somewhere on the escalator while I have gotten a token(Metrocard) entered , boarded a train and be at the next station.



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(1595267)

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Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jan 14 04:28:34 2022, in response to Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled, posted by Sand Box John on Thu Jan 13 22:33:21 2022.

NYCT tried the fixed consist 24/7 kool aid but gave it up. From my POV running empty cars more hours per day just accelerates the maintenance needs. not to mention the wasted electricity.
As a first day rider of the original Metroliner (the anniversary is next week IINM) I am with you on EMUs

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(1595276)

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Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled

Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Jan 14 08:14:07 2022, in response to Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jan 14 04:19:25 2022.

It is not the arches per se so much as the unnecessarily immense sizes.In fact my favorite BART stations all have shallow arches on the fare mezzanine. But that is exactlt the problem. Those mezzanines are tall enough for the trains. there was no need tohave the platforms another level below.

The immense size of the arch was used to create unobstructed sight lines and to quote the late Cody Pfanstiehl "eliminate the feel of the station being a warehouse basement".

I have always favored shallow cut and cover for a combination of reasons. While I am not against beauty in subway architecture, I do believe utility should override--case in point. Think of the time wasted with multiple escalators to extra deep stations versus say local stations on the original subway in NYC. You will still be somewhere on the escalator while I have gotten a token(Metrocard) entered , boarded a train and be at the next station.

I totally understand your reasoning. Almost all of WMATA's deep station are that way for topographical or geological reasons. There also was the desire to reduce surface disruption during construction hence the reason why island platform stations in subway dominate the system.

John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore.

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(1595294)

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Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled

Posted by The Silence on Fri Jan 14 09:57:39 2022, in response to Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled, posted by Jersey Mike on Thu Jan 13 14:42:01 2022.

I'm sure that's what you've said about a lot of things.

If it's such a "fad", why has just about every other transit system operator outside the US adopted it?



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Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled

Posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Fri Jan 14 13:16:54 2022, in response to New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled, posted by GojiMet86 on Wed Jan 12 11:45:54 2022.

UGLY

THEY BAN YOU FROM TAKING PHOTOS OF THIER CRAPPY TRAINS DOWN THERE

ANYWAY

FUCK THEM !!!



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Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 14 13:34:45 2022, in response to Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jan 14 04:28:34 2022.

When did they give it up? I think only the M and 5 shuttles are cut back at night.

Shortening trains isnít free either. In addition to labor costs, you also have wear and tear on the coupler mechanisms.

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(1595340)

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Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Jan 14 17:09:11 2022, in response to Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jan 14 04:28:34 2022.

They still don't cut trains except for midnight OPTO service on the #5 Sure to E.180th and the A shuttle Lefferts-Euclid.

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(1595341)

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Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Jan 14 17:10:05 2022, in response to Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Jan 14 17:09:11 2022.

Damn spell check.

Dyre, not Sure.

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(1595342)

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Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Jan 14 17:10:46 2022, in response to Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 14 13:34:45 2022.

The M cuts on weekends only.

Not weeknights.

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(1595345)

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Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled

Posted by LuchAAA on Fri Jan 14 17:36:18 2022, in response to Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 14 13:34:45 2022.

Shortening trains isnít free either. In addition to labor costs, you also have wear and tear on the coupler mechanisms.

"Cutting" a train or "cutting and adding" is the terminology used.

It's also done daily at Lefferts on the A for OPTO service to Euclid.

All of these locations like Metropolitan, Lefferts, Dyre, have "station switching" jobs and have for decades.

Unless you make a "hard add", the couplers will be fine.




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Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled

Posted by JRR4 on Fri Jan 14 19:23:26 2022, in response to New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled, posted by GojiMet86 on Wed Jan 12 11:45:54 2022.

MARTA, the subway to nowhere. So poorly planned. No express tracks, only two main lines, long headways, just a poor system for such a large city.

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Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled

Posted by ntrainride on Fri Jan 14 23:51:04 2022, in response to Re: New Atlanta MARTA metro design unveiled, posted by JRR4 on Fri Jan 14 19:23:26 2022.

short little marta cab ride vid i took some years back. always feels strange riding on subways outside of new york. i love doing it, but it always feels strange. inside the cars it's a subway vibe. but then you look outside the window and it's like, woah. where the phuk is i??



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