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| [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? (1591189) | |
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| (1591189) | |
[PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Nov 29 18:45:43 2021 The way you see it is the way all the R-32's and R-38's had their floor tile color positioned. Now, scroll down to the second photo.  Notice the different positioning of the floor tile color pattern. Was this an experiment or was the floor replaced entirely and they chose to be different? R-32 or R-38 ? 
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| (1591193) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 29 19:05:22 2021, in response to [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Nov 29 18:45:43 2021. I don't look at floor tile patterns. Look on top of the double window sash. It slopes inward toward the top on an R32, but is flush and flat on an R38. |
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| (1591194) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Nov 29 19:16:33 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 29 19:05:22 2021. So it's an R-38 ?The mystery is why the different floor tile pattern. Bill Newkirk |
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| (1591195) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 29 19:43:08 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Nov 29 19:16:33 2021. The 2nd one is an R38. I know nothing about floor patterns. |
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| (1591200) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by W.B. on Mon Nov 29 20:26:21 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 29 19:43:08 2021. Also the side windows on R38's are wider than on R32's.As for the floor pattern, I'm similarly baffled and stumped. |
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| (1591209) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Nov 29 21:22:23 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by W.B. on Mon Nov 29 20:26:21 2021. I seem to recall that some of the R-38s had a different floor pattern but I don't know which ones or why. |
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| (1591212) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Nov 29 22:43:45 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Nov 29 19:16:33 2021. Same colors then on early 32/38..as the NTTs.Every one of them. |
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| (1591215) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by Westcode44 on Mon Nov 29 23:29:25 2021, in response to [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Nov 29 18:45:43 2021. BOTH interior shots are R32s, this was an experimental floor tile. As someone previously stated the R38s had wider picture window (vent) sashes.WE-44 |
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| (1591217) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Nov 30 00:37:41 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by Westcode44 on Mon Nov 29 23:29:25 2021. No. The second shot is definitely an R-38. You can tell by the side area immediately above the windows. |
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| (1591221) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by gbs on Tue Nov 30 03:15:21 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by randyo on Tue Nov 30 00:37:41 2021. To me the most obvious interior difference between the R32 and R38 is the number of standing poles: the R32 has about twice as many as the R38. On the R32 there's a pole on each side of each ceiling fan, but the R38 has them only on one side of each fan, for reasons I've never understood, even from day 1 when I first rode an R38 on Queens Blvd. With all the crowded cars on the Queens Blvd line, what advantage was there to having fewer poles rather than more? |
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| (1591228) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Nov 30 06:43:48 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by gbs on Tue Nov 30 03:15:21 2021. It was thought too many poles impede flow, people's bags and briefcases (no napsacks then) get caught around them. |
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| (1591229) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Nov 30 06:53:02 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by randyo on Tue Nov 30 00:37:41 2021. Didn't R38s only have those backlit lights? I know this was true post GOH, but I don't know for sure pre. |
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| (1591230) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Nov 30 06:58:20 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by randyo on Tue Nov 30 00:37:41 2021.  I guess this is an R-38 - Notice the ad for the movie "The Valachi papers" (1972), the year this photo was probably taken.
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| (1591232) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Nov 30 07:04:37 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Nov 30 06:58:20 2021. So R32 lighting did have that back-lit design 🤔 |
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| (1591233) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Nov 30 07:41:03 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Nov 30 07:04:37 2021. Some did, some did not. Also note the new style fan. |
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| (1591234) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Nov 30 07:58:13 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Nov 30 07:04:37 2021. The last 150 R-32's had backlit lights and baffle type fans. These features were continued into the R-38 car order. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1591235) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Nov 30 08:16:44 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Nov 30 07:58:13 2021. Did backlit lights remain after GOH ? |
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| (1591237) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Nov 30 08:24:50 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by Joe V on Tue Nov 30 08:16:44 2021. The only ones I saw were the GE overhauls. |
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| (1591241) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Nov 30 09:30:02 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by Joe V on Tue Nov 30 07:41:03 2021. All R32s had backlit ads. Think R 38s did as well. |
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| (1591242) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Nov 30 09:30:49 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by Joe V on Tue Nov 30 08:16:44 2021. No. They were all removed. |
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| (1591244) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Nov 30 09:52:53 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Nov 30 09:30:02 2021. Not according to Newkirk's first photo. Ad rack look just like an R27/30, except for the colors. |
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| (1591245) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Nov 30 09:53:51 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Nov 30 08:24:50 2021. GE seemed to have left some things in place, like the original helmet at the ends of the roof. |
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| (1591253) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Nov 30 10:36:31 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Nov 30 09:30:02 2021. When they were born? |
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| (1591256) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Nov 30 11:02:29 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Nov 30 06:53:02 2021. Yes, they had them pre-GOH, as did the last 150 R-32s (3800-3949). |
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| (1591257) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Nov 30 11:03:59 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Nov 30 09:30:02 2021. No, only the last 150 R-32s (3850-3949) had backlit ads, pre-GOH. All of the R-38s had them. |
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| (1591258) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Nov 30 11:06:05 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Nov 30 11:02:29 2021. Wonder what Budd charged them for the change order ? |
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| (1591259) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Nov 30 11:07:11 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Nov 30 09:30:02 2021. All R32s had backlit ads. Think R 38s did as well Only the last 150 R-32's had back lit adds. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1591265) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Nov 30 13:55:02 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by gbs on Tue Nov 30 03:15:21 2021. To me the most obvious interior difference between the R32 and R38 is the number of standing poles: the R32 has about twice as many as the R38. Looks like the R-30's also had many poles. 
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| (1591289) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Nov 30 18:37:08 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Nov 30 13:55:02 2021. More than pre-2000s Greenpoint? |
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| (1591309) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Nov 30 21:35:09 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Nov 30 18:37:08 2021. Ha |
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| (1591320) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by gbs on Tue Nov 30 23:29:01 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Nov 30 13:55:02 2021. Yes, it was surprising and disappointing to see the R38s with fewer standing poles than the earlier B-division cars with similar interior configurations. |
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| (1591321) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by gbs on Tue Nov 30 23:42:00 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Nov 30 11:02:29 2021. That was one of the two big obvious differences between the R32 and the R32A in 1964: the back-lit ads, and the fan covers. |
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| (1591322) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by gbs on Tue Nov 30 23:45:10 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Nov 30 11:07:11 2021. As I said in an earlier post in this thread, the two big obvious differences between the R32 and R32A in 1964 were the back-lit ads and the different fan grilles. |
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| (1591323) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by gbs on Tue Nov 30 23:46:46 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Nov 30 06:58:20 2021. Yes, the second photo is an R38. Note the fewer standing poles. |
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| (1591326) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Dec 1 01:54:16 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Nov 30 09:30:49 2021. The R-38s retained the backlit ads, but the R-32s and the 40s and 42s did not. |
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| (1591332) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Dec 1 05:55:53 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by gbs on Tue Nov 30 23:42:00 2021. How many R32A were there ? |
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| (1591333) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Dec 1 05:57:05 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by randyo on Wed Dec 1 01:54:16 2021. Yet the R62's got them. I dont remember what the R68's have.I hate them. It blocks lumens and makes the car darker. |
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| (1591336) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Dec 1 06:43:13 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by gbs on Tue Nov 30 23:46:46 2021. Yes, the second photo is an R38. Note the fewer standing poles.Thank you. Bill Newkirk |
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| (1591337) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Dec 1 06:49:03 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by Joe V on Wed Dec 1 05:55:53 2021. How many R32A were there ?R-32A #3350 - #3649 R-32 #3650 - #3949 Bill Newkirk |
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| (1591338) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Dec 1 07:20:08 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by Joe V on Wed Dec 1 05:55:53 2021. Joe: Two orders for stainless steel rapid transit cars were placed with the Budd Company in August 1963. The first 300 cars (3650-3649) would be designated as "R-32 A" and would be paid for by bonds issued by the City of New York. The second 300 cars (3650-3949) would be designated as "R-32" and would be paid for by bonds issued by the New York City Transit Authority. All 300 R-32 A's and the first 150 R-32's (3650-3799) were identical. The last 150 R-32's (3800-3949) had modified interiors that consisted of backlit car cards and baffle type fans. The backlit car cards and baffle type fan features were carried over to the R-38's. After going through the General Overhaul Rebuilding both the R-32 a's and the R-32 were redesignated as R-32 GOH. This new designation was then divided into the Phase I and Phase II cars rebuilt by Morris-Knudson (584 cars) and the ten rebuilt by Buffalo Transit Services. This made for a total of 594 out of the original 600 cars that were rebuilt. Six of the cars had previously been scrapped or damaged and not suitable for rebuilding. Larry, RedbirdR33 Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1591348) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by italianguyinsi on Wed Dec 1 09:14:25 2021, in response to [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Nov 29 18:45:43 2021. The R-32s did not have backlit ad panels. The R-38s did. |
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| (1591366) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Dec 1 12:13:39 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by Joe V on Wed Dec 1 05:57:05 2021. It only made the cars darker after the MTA stopped using translucent plastic ads and replaced them with paper ads which were never intended for back lit ads. They thought it was too expensive to make both type of ads.The back lit as looked much better than the other ads when the translucents were used. They look awful and make the cars too dark as you say, with the paper ads. Another bad MTA decision. |
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| (1591367) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Dec 1 12:21:51 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Dec 1 07:20:08 2021. Do you know which ten were rebuilt by GE in Buffalo?Also, it was “G” Overhaul, to distinguish it from the lower levels of overhaul, A through F. The G never stood for “General”. That is a common misconception. That was told to me my the Director of the G Overhaul Program. He should know. |
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| (1591368) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Dec 1 12:22:04 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Dec 1 12:13:39 2021. Lack of a section of lights down the middle of the ceiling also darkens the cars. R62's are dingy. |
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| (1591369) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Dec 1 12:30:33 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Nov 30 13:55:02 2021. Pre GOH, the R 32s had 10 poles and the R38s had 8. I think the R 30s also had 8.The R 42s only had 6. So they constantly reduced the number of poles to increase circulation. When the R32s and R42s were overhauled a decision was made to remove two poles from the R32s. The intent was to have them reinstalled in the R 42s so both classes would have 8 poles. However MK wanted too much money to reinstall them into the R 42s, so they were scrapped. It was a poor decision to remove them since the remaining poles were no longer evenly spaced and since the trains were just as crowded, passengers no longer had a way to hold on when the train was very crowded and were constantly falling on other passengers. |
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| (1591373) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Dec 1 13:55:09 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Dec 1 12:30:33 2021. Thanks for that information!BrooklynBus |
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| (1591380) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Wed Dec 1 14:14:28 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by Joe V on Wed Dec 1 12:22:04 2021. That’s your opinion. They don’t need to lit up like an o.r. |
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| (1591386) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 1 15:51:56 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Nov 30 13:55:02 2021. R30 Redbird with pink seats...I recall seeing that maybe once or twice....they were usually painted dark grey. |
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| (1591387) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Dec 1 16:00:04 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 1 15:51:56 2021. Didn't they paint some non-rebuilt ones to make them look nice, then scrapped them soon thereafter ? |
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| (1591389) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ? |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Dec 1 16:22:17 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] R-32 or R-38 ?, posted by Joe V on Wed Dec 1 16:00:04 2021. Yes, and these are all R-27's I photographed on Aug 24, 1989, #8241 on the left is an R-27 as the others on the right. 
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