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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Oct 25 07:20:55 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sun Oct 24 21:58:54 2021.

If you are just going by letter/number then the Z is the most elusive line to catch. But if you are going by all route designations that appear on trains, then you would need to take into account diamond 6, diamond 7, and diamond F. Diamond 6 and 7 run throughout the day, but the diamond F only has a couple of runs per direction.

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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Oct 25 08:03:13 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Oct 25 07:20:55 2021.



Don't forget the "H" or Rockaway Park Shuttle. That line is halfway to Montauk.

Larry, RedbirdR33

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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by bzuck on Mon Oct 25 09:22:08 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Oct 25 06:43:22 2021.

Thanks for clarifying Larry.

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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by bzuck on Mon Oct 25 09:22:22 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Oct 25 06:43:22 2021.

Thanks for clarifying Larry.

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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Oct 25 11:48:21 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by randyo on Mon Oct 25 02:18:51 2021.

By the time I got hired, at Stillwell the policy got changed. If an M was missing, the QB got changed over to M.

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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Mon Oct 25 16:21:10 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Oct 25 07:20:55 2021.

Actually, since the J/Z run the same route (Broad to Parsons/Archer, the skip-stop notwhithstanding), I consider them essentially the same route, so I will catch one or the other, but not both (this would just be a run for my own purposes, not for any official record, so I would run it as I see fit). Actually, the J (or Z) would be my final leg. In my 1976 trip, there were some lines I had to ride more than once (I kinda threw it together one night, then the night before, my mother anted me to accompany her somewhere early that morning, so I had to change my start point, so I had to start all over). This time, I planned it so I would ride each line once, and only once (also, I am including the shuttles this time, which I did not do in 1976). In order not to repeat lines, my start/end point had to be a station served by multiple lines. So I choose Sutphin/Archer. I will start with the E and end with the J or Z. I chose Sutphin because I can get there from wherever I am staying (most likely midtown Manhattan) via LIRR. I may or not post the itinerary here sometime.

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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Oct 25 18:15:37 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Oct 25 07:20:55 2021.

I've ridden on a sZemp or two.

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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by randyo on Mon Oct 25 18:24:35 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by subfan on Mon Oct 25 02:49:26 2021.

However, regular passengers would soon become aware of the operation and simply avoid the last car or walk through when the time came.

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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by randyo on Mon Oct 25 18:31:41 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Oct 25 08:03:13 2021.

AFAIK, the Rock Pk shuttles display "S," not "H."

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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by randyo on Mon Oct 25 18:40:17 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Oct 25 11:48:21 2021.

There goes BMT tradition. Back long before the Chrystie merger and even before the creation of the NYCTA, the bankers' specials always got preference over regular services.

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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Oct 25 18:49:48 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Mon Oct 25 16:21:10 2021.

From left field. Would the Z & W trains be the only lines that never had an SMEE style cloth roll sign up front??

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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Oct 25 19:10:34 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Oct 25 18:49:48 2021.

What about the G, L, and R? They would have had the double letters in the cloth sign era. There was an old C and old Q.

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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Oct 25 20:38:09 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by randyo on Mon Oct 25 18:24:35 2021.

One would think that people would learn-- but my experience on the LIRR Main Line was that they never learn. The 12-car trains always had a parade of people walking back from the first two cars at New Hyde Park and Merillon Avene, soon to have new 12-car platforms.

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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by subfan on Tue Oct 26 07:01:19 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by randyo on Mon Oct 25 18:24:35 2021.

Perhaps - but it was simpler to just have the D, which was already ten cars, take over the line.

subfan

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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by Joe V on Tue Oct 26 10:03:37 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Oct 25 18:49:48 2021.

R40's and R42's did.

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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Oct 26 10:45:26 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Joe V on Tue Oct 26 10:03:37 2021.

I was thinking of the R10-38 series cars with the route signs on the bonnet.

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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by Joe V on Tue Oct 26 10:47:55 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Oct 26 10:45:26 2021.

I have seen photos of R30 GOH cars with a brown Z. That was a very short era after Archer.

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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by R30A on Tue Oct 26 13:32:03 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Joe V on Tue Oct 26 10:47:55 2021.

Everything post 1979 was mylar or something of the sort. I think the 1967 era signs were too, but quite a bit of the old cloth ones remained through that time, so even if they were, it wasn't as big of a cutoff point.

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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Oct 26 18:38:52 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Oct 25 20:38:09 2021.

Back when I rode to and from NYC from New Haven on Conrail, New Haven-bound trains were ten cars long and only a few stations could berth all ten cars. Conductors would announce, "People in the first two cars and last two cars will have to move if they want to get off at such-and-such station." At Bridgeport, they would say, "All the doors will open at Bridgeport." Even New Haven's platforms could not berth a ten-car train. On Saturdays, it was different. Trains were still ten cars, but the first two cars were isolated - they ran empty. People still had to move if they were in, say the last two cars.

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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Oct 26 19:12:48 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Oct 26 18:38:52 2021.

I remember riding towards the front of one of those GCT-Danbury direct trains once, and when the conductor punched my ticket leaving GCT he told me that I would have to move back to one of the last 3 cars after Redding. It was so bizarre and unheard of to me that I kind of brushed it off, but low and behold once the train left Redding the conductor "sweeped" the car and forced everyone towards the back of the train. I tried to make a joke about it, telling him that I thought I had to move after Redding, not "West Redding", but he didn't find that too funny, dad jokes weren't cool back then lol. Nevertheless I commute on the LIRR multiple times a month and that hasn't happened to me again there or on the few times I've fanned Metro-North since then.

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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by randyo on Wed Oct 27 02:10:19 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by subfan on Tue Oct 26 07:01:19 2021.

Plus the other purpose which I mentioned of having a direct one seat ride from the Bronx to Coney Island.

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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by William A. Padron on Wed Oct 27 05:08:16 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Oct 26 19:12:48 2021.

And even at present, Metro-North New Haven Line passengers, who are on those runs that go into the State Street station in the CBD (near the WTNH-TV studios), must be in the last two cars of that long train when it enters into the really small station platform there. That location only sees a few weekday trips going in and out of NH-State Street along the line for GCT.

-William A. Padron
["News 8 - wtnh.com"]


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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by Joe V on Wed Oct 27 06:49:11 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by randyo on Wed Oct 27 02:10:19 2021.

Does anyone really do that except a summer weekend trip to the beach ?

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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by ntrainride on Wed Oct 27 12:36:07 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Joe V on Wed Oct 27 06:49:11 2021.

used to do it every saturday morning, taking my girlfriend from my place near kings highway all the way up to 205th street near hull avenie where her mom lived.

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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by ntrainride on Wed Oct 27 12:38:39 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by William A. Padron on Wed Oct 27 05:08:16 2021.

interesting service pattern. so it's a branch line, like at princeton?

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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by Edwards! on Wed Oct 27 21:13:32 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by gbs on Sat Oct 23 21:31:48 2021.

Of course.
The connection to the subway to the El was partially completed during the fourties... superstructure in tact along with station platform lengthening,signaling along the center track etc.

The problems came along during WW2,when all Transit expansion work had to end.
All the efforts were put on hold, indefinitely.. until funds were available to finish all work.

Predominantly,this was completing the Fulton st subway eastern portion..
Completion of the 11thst cut..
Finishing the Smith st line Culver connection, and start the 10th Ave route from both the West End and Smith st connectors.

Christie St construction had it's roots involved directly from the SAS..and was delayed until late 1957
However, the SAS was NOT INCLUDED WITHIN THE PLAN.. leaving several segments of the connection partially built.
1)Second Ave to the Williamsburg bridge..
2)Second Ave to Nassau st loop..
3)Sixth Ave Houston st to Nassau st loop.

Many more were planned,but left off the table...
However, out of all the routes in particular,not that the Culver was the easiest to complete , since most of the work was already done.
There was even a working track connection between the two sections.



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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by Edwards! on Wed Oct 27 21:17:08 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by gbs on Sat Oct 23 21:31:48 2021.

Of course.
The connection to the subway to the El was partially completed during the fourties... superstructure in tact along with station platform lengthening,signaling along the center track etc.

The problems came along during WW2,when all Transit expansion work had to end.
All the efforts were put on hold, indefinitely.. until funds were available to finish all work.

Predominantly,this was completing the Fulton st subway eastern portion..
Completion of the 11thst cut..
Finishing the Smith st line Culver connection, and start the 10th Ave route from both the West End and Smith st connectors.

Christie St construction had it's roots involved directly from the SAS..and was delayed until late 1957
However, the SAS was NOT INCLUDED WITHIN THE PLAN.. leaving several segments of the connection partially built.
1)Second Ave to the Williamsburg bridge..
2)Second Ave to Nassau st loop..
3)Sixth Ave Houston st to Nassau st loop.

Many more were planned,but left off the table...
However, out of all the routes in particular,not that the Culver was the easiest to complete , since most of the work was already done.
There was even a working track connection between the two sections.
Also,the 10th Ave route was continued under Ft Hamilton pky...to 86th st.

It was removed from every program/project.
No money..not enough interest.



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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by Edwards! on Wed Oct 27 21:33:24 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by randyo on Wed Oct 27 02:10:19 2021.

Which was a ridiculous promise to make,as well as keep.
The way the local tracks are arranged, every thing is Queens bound heading north and Church st lower Manhattan bound heading south.

Since they do NOT follow that arrangement,all trains head to Houston st..while 8th Ave trains head downtown to WTC and Brooklyn.
The D was the primary Hudson Terminal service at the time the New service was available for use,while the E TRAIN USED SMITH ST.




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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by VictorM on Wed Oct 27 22:56:01 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by ntrainride on Wed Oct 27 12:38:39 2021.

It amounts to a branch line but is actually on the main line going to New London and Boston, but is little used.

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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by randyo on Thu Oct 28 02:24:51 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Edwards! on Wed Oct 27 21:33:24 2021.

Once 6th Ave opened, the F became the Smith St service and the E terminated at Bway/Laf.

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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by ntrainride on Thu Oct 28 15:41:46 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by VictorM on Wed Oct 27 22:56:01 2021.

it's cool. harkens back to the days when railroads had branches like that all over the place.

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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by Dyre Dan on Thu Oct 28 18:15:39 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Edwards! on Wed Oct 27 21:17:08 2021.

What is/was the 10th Avenue route?

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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by Andrew Saucci on Thu Oct 28 22:09:29 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by ntrainride on Thu Oct 28 15:41:46 2021.

There was a time when the philosophy was that trains and trolleys went to wherever people were, because they were the preeminent means of transportation. Today, in the suburbs, the automobile is almost always part of the trip. The train only has to make it 3/4 of the way or maybe 90% of the way at best-- the rest, walk, bike it, or drive it.

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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service

Posted by ntrainride on Thu Oct 28 22:38:51 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Andrew Saucci on Thu Oct 28 22:09:29 2021.

it is interesting how brooklyn defined the notion of a "suburb". especially pre-east river bridges. i would give a lot to see the activities around, say, broadway ferries before the williamsburg.

and even after it was built the number of streetcar routes taking it to delancy terminal must have been a crazy unending parade of streetcars from the "suburban districts" passing over the river.

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