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| (1581910) | |
Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill vote |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Aug 3 04:54:16 2021 Lawmakers in Washington are expected to vote this week on the $1 trillion bipartisan infrastructure bill. Over the weekend, Senate negotiators finished whittling the massive 2,700-page bill. More than half of the money would be spent on new investments, including $110 billion for roads and bridges, $39 billion for public transit and $66 billion for rail projects.There are billions more for water infrastructure, airports, ports, broadband internet access and electric-vehicle charging stations. Some of this money could be allocated for the long-awaited Gateway Tunnel project. Lawmakers also hope to vote on a $3.5 trillion budget plan this week. |
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| (1581912) | |
Unipartisan Infrastructure Bill vote |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 3 05:29:22 2021, in response to Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill vote, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Aug 3 04:54:16 2021. The Republicans and Democrats are the same party. |
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| (1581964) | |
Re: Unipartisan Infrastructure Bill vote |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Tue Aug 3 21:28:18 2021, in response to Unipartisan Infrastructure Bill vote, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 3 05:29:22 2021. I took one look at the original subject and thought to myself, "Nothing is bipartisan these days." After reading your response, I am reminded again as I am daily these days of Patrick McGoohan's series The Prisoner. One of the eerie aspects that was broadly hinted (but like pretty much everything else in the series, was not explicitly stated) was the idea that one of the unanswered questions that started almost every episode was as unimportant and irrelevant as Number Six thought it critical. That question is "Whose side are you on!" The evasive response was "That would be telling." I believe "telling" should be taken more in the sense of "revealing" than "tattling." The repeated insinuation is that both sides actually run the Village together-- and why escape is futile. So it doesn't matter whether you are pro-car, pro-bus, or pro-subway-- Bridges and Tunnels, Transit, and Bus all start with the one and same MTA! |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1581966) | |
Re: Unipartisan Infrastructure Bill vote |
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Posted by The Silence on Tue Aug 3 22:17:34 2021, in response to Re: Unipartisan Infrastructure Bill vote, posted by Andrew Saucci on Tue Aug 3 21:28:18 2021. I was literally talking about the Prisoner this evening with my mother. She didn't believe me when I said how influential it was in the history of TV.One wrikle in everything is something the creators admited later: Number 2's answer to Number six about who Number One is... It wasn't "You are Number Six." It's "You are, Number Six." |
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| (1581968) | |
Re: Unipartisan Infrastructure Bill vote |
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Posted by The Silence on Tue Aug 3 22:38:54 2021, in response to Re: Unipartisan Infrastructure Bill vote, posted by The Silence on Tue Aug 3 22:17:34 2021. Sorry, phone rang and I accidently hit sumbit...anyway... The reason I bring that up is, deep down, we should know what we're getting into, and in the end... their actions are the end result of our own. We make our own beds. We hand power to the corrupt, the incompetents', the sleezballs and the perverts because they promise us nice shinny things like a baby excited about someone's car keys... The Prisoner went rouge and his agency had to bring him in. His capture is the end result of his own actions. |
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| (1581970) | |
Re: Unipartisan Infrastructure Bill vote |
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Posted by Bill West on Wed Aug 4 01:28:05 2021, in response to Re: Unipartisan Infrastructure Bill vote, posted by The Silence on Tue Aug 3 22:38:54 2021. Back to Andrew's pro-car, pro-bus, or pro-subway -they're all the same, they are all saying "I lack the personal honesty to not applaud the politicians for robbing others to pay for my personal choices".Bill |
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| (1581988) | |
Re: Unipartisan Infrastructure Bill vote |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 4 12:19:05 2021, in response to Re: Unipartisan Infrastructure Bill vote, posted by Bill West on Wed Aug 4 01:28:05 2021. It’s not a personal choice. The economy is set up this way. |
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| (1582000) | |
Re: Unipartisan Infrastructure Bill vote |
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Posted by Bill West on Wed Aug 4 15:27:32 2021, in response to Re: Unipartisan Infrastructure Bill vote, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 4 12:19:05 2021. The economy is not a person. When we look at the larger picture it is simply a statistic summing the activity of a number of individuals. It is the honesty of those people that the post speaks to.Bill |
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| (1582010) | |
Re: Unipartisan Infrastructure Bill vote |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 4 21:12:18 2021, in response to Re: Unipartisan Infrastructure Bill vote, posted by Bill West on Wed Aug 4 15:27:32 2021. Your response doesn’t make any sense. |
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| (1582016) | |
Re: Unipartisan Infrastructure Bill vote |
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Posted by Bill West on Thu Aug 5 03:26:49 2021, in response to Re: Unipartisan Infrastructure Bill vote, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 4 21:12:18 2021. Recap:Chuck -reports that some people are arguing for some transportation spending Andrew -it's supportive people from all forms of transportation Bill -they are arguing that someone else should pay for their transportation, but that's not honest Spider -it's not people, it's the economy Bill -phrases like "the economy" don't commit dishonesty, it's people who do. Their actions may affect their money and that gets reported as "the economy" but it's still people who are being dishonest. Soapbox (the political term): -It is a personal choice to structure one's activities on one's own dime and not on forcibly taking someone else's'. A thousand other crooks doesn't excuse it. -Just because transportation, the whole "economy" or any other activity has long been done in a certain way doesn't automatically mean it's ever been honest. -People's tendency to group for finding solutions and for the comfort of group think doesn't give them an excuse to be dishonest. -More on topic, if a transportation advocacy group's solution can't be done without other people's money then they are mistaken in thinking it's a solution. They should revisit what they are trying to do with their lifestyle and check the path down from there to their transportation desires. Any step that forcibly need's other people's money to work is a mistaken idea. For the case in hand, road users should pay for catching up the politician's failure to collect enough depreciation funds to keep the roads in good shape. Then ditto for the other forms of transportation. If the Feds fund every local road jurisdiction in the country then every Federal taxpayer is going to pay for it. That gives no saving over those same people paying through their local taxes, is less transparent as to the real road costs and invites political corruption. Is that what we want to encourage? Most basically we have to think about other people's right to run their life if we want them to respect our running of ours. This applies to debating transportation directly as well as in OT's broader arguing about politics. Bill |
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| (1582020) | |
Re: Unipartisan Infrastructure Bill vote |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Aug 5 09:37:18 2021, in response to Re: Unipartisan Infrastructure Bill vote, posted by Bill West on Thu Aug 5 03:26:49 2021. Any step that forcibly need's other people's money to work is a mistaken idea.The logical conlusion is that the United States Constitution was a bad idea. The Confederation of States was a much better arrangement. By the way, many taxpayers who never use public transportation still support taxpayer funding for it, because it makes the roads they drive less crowded than they would be if the hoi polloi all were driving. |
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| (1582023) | |
Re: Unipartisan Infrastructure Bill vote |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 5 12:36:36 2021, in response to Re: Unipartisan Infrastructure Bill vote, posted by AlM on Thu Aug 5 09:37:18 2021. The other benefit to public funding is that the resulting economic benefit exceeds the investment.IOW, people who are taxed earn more after those taxes are taken then they would have had those investments not been made and those taxes taken. |
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| (1582031) | |
Re: Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill vote |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Aug 5 14:24:06 2021, in response to Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill vote, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Aug 3 04:54:16 2021. I'm glad they waited 5 years to finally pass the bill.The number of unrelated things in the 2,700 page bill is staggerring and frieghtening. |
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| (1582045) | |
Re: Unipartisan Infrastructure Bill vote |
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Posted by Bill West on Thu Aug 5 17:08:55 2021, in response to Re: Unipartisan Infrastructure Bill vote, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 5 12:36:36 2021. AIM -which part of the Constitution are you pointing to? I see it as being against forcibly taking money from one person for the benefit of another. Besides the constitution is subordinate to our fundamental belief in the freedom of each person. We are welcome to voluntarily band together in our efforts at life but we're not welcome to force ourselves on others in the pursuit of our schemes. Solving our needs remains a personal responsibility.-your second point doesn't quite connect because a road user voluntarily supporting a transit rider is not related to whether it is right to force other road users to do the same. A bigger view is that the answer to busy roads is that people wouldn't crowd together in the first place if they could see the real cost of the transportation needed. Spider -"benefit...investment". Not so because it omits the right of choice. IE at an extreme a voter group could forcibly take $100 from you, buy a gun, rob a bank and pay you back thousands. The test it fails is not just the morality; it also denies you choice, maybe you had other ideas of what to do with your money. The idea reminds me of tax subsidies to encourage business, the owner saves money, the employees make money, the suppliers make sales but many locals don't see a dime back for the tax money they were forced to put in. The mob is so blinded by their goal that they don't see that there is not 100% payback, that they are trampling over the remaining minority. Another mob falsehood is "benefit for the greater good". If you are in a room of 10 people and 9 think you should pay for their lunch it clearly benefits the majority but is hardly more than passive-aggressive mob rule. And watch their arguments degenerate to sounding like a mob. So these "popular" arguments need broader thought. There are catches in them because they start in the middle of the problem (someone "needs" transportation) rather than at the top (solving personal needs is a personal responsibility, joining with others to solve them is nice but it is only voluntary). Bill |
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| (1582048) | |
Re: Unipartisan Infrastructure Bill vote |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 5 17:29:12 2021, in response to Re: Unipartisan Infrastructure Bill vote, posted by Bill West on Thu Aug 5 17:08:55 2021. 1. The Constitution is subordinate to nothing.2. How could they take $100 from me? There are laws and constitutions that constrain the government. If you look at private corporations, most of them are run by officers and have shareholders. This is true even in the event of closely held corporations. So if I’m outvoted by my fellow shareholders, does that constitute theft of my property? By your logic, yes. |
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| (1582059) | |
Re: Unipartisan Infrastructure Bill vote |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Aug 5 18:12:25 2021, in response to Re: Unipartisan Infrastructure Bill vote, posted by Bill West on Thu Aug 5 17:08:55 2021. AIM -which part of the Constitution are you pointing to?The entire thing. The basic item approved at the Convention, the Bill of Rights, and every amendment since. They are all uniformly contrary to the belief you have set forth that people shouldn't be paying for other people's expenses. The purpose of a national government is exactly so that people pay for other people's expenses. |
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