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| Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams (1576330) | |
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| (1576689) | |
Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams |
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Posted by AlM on Wed May 26 10:53:38 2021, in response to Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams, posted by Joe V on Wed May 26 10:47:40 2021. Huh?The removal of the Third Avenue El reduced the options for travel to midtown. The East Bronx never had an El to remove. Its service to midtown was limited all along, and the market was greatly expanded by the building of Co-op City. So the removal of the Third Ave El just made the central Bronx more like the East Bornx, except that the MNRR option existed. So if you build an MNRR option for the East Bronx, things will become more similar. |
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| (1576690) | |
Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed May 26 11:01:31 2021, in response to Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams, posted by AlM on Wed May 26 10:53:38 2021. 3rd Avenue el forever enhanced Harlem line Bronx ridership. |
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| (1576693) | |
Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams |
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Posted by AlM on Wed May 26 11:41:43 2021, in response to Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams, posted by Joe V on Wed May 26 11:01:31 2021. How does that work? |
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| (1576699) | |
Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed May 26 11:43:50 2021, in response to Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams, posted by AlM on Wed May 26 11:41:43 2021. How do you think ? Nearby el is gone. Some people took Harlem line instead. Why is that so hard to understand ? |
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| (1576701) | |
Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams |
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Posted by AlM on Wed May 26 12:12:34 2021, in response to Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams, posted by Joe V on Wed May 26 11:43:50 2021. Harlem line takes in some of the old 3rd Avenue el market, which never should have been torn down. East Bronx service will not have that benefit of replacing an old el.You don't explain the implications of this sentence. "East Bronx service will not have that benefit of replacing an old el." Of course it won't. Central Bronx people use MNRR to some degree. East Bronx people probably use express buses much more than Central Bronx because there have no railroad. Now they will be able to use the railroad, if they wish. |
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| (1576704) | |
Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed May 26 12:20:43 2021, in response to Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams, posted by AlM on Wed May 26 12:12:34 2021. Difference is Harlem line service has been there for 100+ years and then got the benefit of a torn down el.East Bronx is an entirely new start, doesn't replace anything, nothing got torn down, and will have a much tougher go at it, looking to poach BxM7 and #6 trains ridership. |
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| (1576706) | |
Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams |
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Posted by AlM on Wed May 26 12:25:37 2021, in response to Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams, posted by Joe V on Wed May 26 12:20:43 2021. East Bronx is an entirely new start, doesn't replace anything, nothing got torn down, and will have a much tougher go at it, looking to poach BxM7 and #6 trains ridership.That makes no sense. People in the central Bronx can take an express bus, or they can take the subway, or the MNRR. They make their choice based on a ton of criteria. People in the East Bronx currently have only 2 of those 3 choices. When they get the third choice, some will move to that third choice and some will stick with what they have. The fact that there wasn't a "Bruckner and Hutchinson El" that shut down 50+ years ago will make no difference to their choice now. |
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| (1576707) | |
Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed May 26 12:28:52 2021, in response to Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams, posted by AlM on Wed May 26 12:25:37 2021. Yes it make sense. New rail starts have a tougher time establishing themselves as commuting habits are already in palce. |
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| (1576715) | |
Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 26 13:38:47 2021, in response to Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams, posted by Joe V on Wed May 26 10:10:10 2021. How is it overrated? |
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| (1576716) | |
Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed May 26 13:44:48 2021, in response to Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 26 13:38:47 2021. Overly optimistfic assumptions about what Co-Op city residents will do. |
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| (1576719) | |
Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed May 26 14:06:24 2021, in response to Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams, posted by Joe V on Wed May 26 13:44:48 2021. Well, maybe somebody should take a poll. |
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| (1576720) | |
Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed May 26 14:08:20 2021, in response to Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed May 26 14:06:24 2021. We'll find out when it starts. |
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| (1576721) | |
Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed May 26 14:15:12 2021, in response to Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams, posted by Joe V on Wed May 26 14:08:20 2021. If this happens, watch the $$$ values of CO-OP city units skyrocket. |
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| (1576724) | |
Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams |
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Posted by AlM on Wed May 26 14:55:32 2021, in response to Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed May 26 14:15:12 2021. Not sure the effect would be that dramatic. A question I don't know the answer to: are co-ops on Grand Concourse near Fordham Road more expensive than elsewhere, because of the proximity to superb rail service? |
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| (1576726) | |
Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed May 26 15:09:09 2021, in response to Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams, posted by AlM on Wed May 26 14:55:32 2021. IDK, but Queens Blvd rents are higher near express stops, all else being equal. Express stops also coincide with LIRR at Kew Gardens and Forest Hills. (There shoud also be an LIRR Elmhurst stop).Reverse commuters are an easier market for this service, and could effect which side of the tracks such people may migrate to over the next 4 years. |
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| (1576727) | |
Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams |
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Posted by Q23 on Wed May 26 15:09:44 2021, in response to Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams, posted by AlM on Wed May 26 09:57:39 2021. Oh yeah, no doubt that Metro North could prove beneficial for people. There might be some Manhattan bound commuters which might benefit from having it, plus whatever ridership is going to Westchester (since the closet thing one has is taking the Bx30 to the Bee Line).As far as ridership in Bronx stations to Manhattan along the Harlem and Hudson lines, perceived safety of the subway may be a factor as well as to why they choose, on top of travel time and "convenience" (I put it in quote, because it varies among people, being more subjective). |
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| (1576738) | |
Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams |
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Posted by K. Trout on Wed May 26 16:18:38 2021, in response to Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams, posted by Joe V on Wed May 26 12:28:52 2021. In an area where the choice is buses or private cars, a new train has a high hurdle to jump. However, I suspect NYC commuters are more open than average to trains as a mode of transport. |
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| (1576739) | |
Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed May 26 16:31:08 2021, in response to Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams, posted by K. Trout on Wed May 26 16:18:38 2021. It depends specifically where people in the East Bronx, especially Co-Op City, in 4 years will work. Nobody knows where they will be working in 4 years. Cradle to grave employment is gone. Ridership is impossible to assess. |
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| (1576740) | |
Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams |
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Posted by AlM on Wed May 26 16:44:57 2021, in response to Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams, posted by K. Trout on Wed May 26 16:18:38 2021. In an area where the choice is buses or private cars, a new train has a high hurdle to jump.Except that in the Bronx, many families can't afford a car, or can't afford the second car that would be required for the second parent to commute to a different place. So cars are not always a good option. And trains can be a lot faster than buses, depending on where you're going. |
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| (1576746) | |
Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed May 26 17:24:23 2021, in response to Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams, posted by AlM on Wed May 26 16:44:57 2021. Are people in the East Bronx more auto-oriented because they always had shitty options ? |
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| (1576747) | |
Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams |
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Posted by AlM on Wed May 26 17:33:57 2021, in response to Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams, posted by Joe V on Wed May 26 17:24:23 2021. Probably. Also, Co-op City has cheaper parking than areas along the Harlem Line.But say you're a family with one car, and one parent has a possibility of a job in Stamford. If they have to buy a second car for the parent to take the job, it could be way more expensive than taking the train, even if car might be faster than taking the bus to the Co-op City train station. |
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| (1576786) | |
Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams |
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Posted by K. Trout on Thu May 27 11:26:51 2021, in response to Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams, posted by AlM on Wed May 26 16:44:57 2021. To clarify, I was referring to areas of the country with little to no rail mass transit at all. I think Joe V's statement is true for most of the US, outside of a handful of metropolitan areas which have well-established rail.My hunch is that even in parts of Bronx which have no rail access, people would still be more likely than the average person elsewhere in the US to accept a new train service, because rail is so thoroughly established in NYC anyway. |
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| (1576787) | |
Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams |
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Posted by K. Trout on Thu May 27 11:29:06 2021, in response to Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams, posted by K. Trout on Thu May 27 11:26:51 2021. Established in terms of both physical infrastructure, and cultural acceptance, that is. |
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| (1576795) | |
Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access—The new station locations and track maps/diagrams |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 27 13:26:47 2021, in response to Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access - The new station locations and track maps/diagrams, posted by Joe V on Wed May 26 16:31:08 2021. Cradle to grave employment is goneDid it ever exist? |
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| (1576831) | |
Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access—The new station locations and track maps/diagrams |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu May 27 18:38:22 2021, in response to Re: MTA Metro-North Railroad Penn Station Access—The new station locations and track maps/diagrams, posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 27 13:26:47 2021. Yes. |
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