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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sun Apr 4 08:20:53 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Apr 3 23:26:40 2021. That's how I look at it. If it had been built, and especially if it had ever had service, there would be a picture and official records someplace.For example, the never-used El on Delancey Street (coming off the Williamsburg Bridge) was photographed. Even though none of us ever saw it in person, there's no doubt it existed. Same holds true for the BRT tunneling work on Lexington Avenue. There is no doubt that it took place, though no alive today was around when that work was done, and there's no sign of it still extant. There's also no doubt at all about the BRT's work to connect Chambers Street to the Brooklyn Bridge- in fact, photos were taken of the men doing it. My take on 76th Street: There's no doubt at all that the IND/BOT planned it. I think they even started something- hence the signals that would face it. But I doubt they ever got beyond utility and street level work- some utility vaults do appear to have been placed in a manner to accommodate it. I'd guess there's a short earthen void beyond the famed cinderblock wall and that's it. |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Sun Apr 4 08:34:39 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by MainR3664 on Sun Apr 4 08:20:53 2021. Sounds good to me. |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Sun Apr 4 10:15:44 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by TransitChuckG on Sun Apr 4 08:34:39 2021. Me too!For a more detailed insight on this 76th Street speculation, ongoing since the pre-internet days circa 1963 (which I always think in my mind when reading on this forum as "Not again?!? Give a rest, please?"), check out the book "The Routes Not Taken - A Trip Through New York City's Unbuilt Subway System" authored by Joseph B. Raskin, and published by Fordham University Press in 2014. Mr. Raskin was the Assistant Director of Government and Community Relations for MTA NYC Transit. It is all there in the book's chapter six titled "Ashland Place and the Mysteries of 76th Street", and om pages 145-148. The author notes that there was no newspaper coverage of any such construction if it had happened, no real infrastruce work evidence in that area (such as a pump room needed for the high water table), and no authorization from the officials at the Board of Transportation, the Board of Estimate and the NYC Planning Commission. Perhaps this is a more detailed conclusion about this, with the city struggling to get any work done with the lack of subway capital funds on hand... "The public hearing for the project completing work at Euclid Avenue didn't take place until Septeber 21, 1945." It continues on, and finishes with this statement... "Having said all of this, it's also obvious that the mystery of the tunnel to 76th Street won't clear up until a major construction project requires excavation along Pitkin Avenue. But that's not likely to happen any time in the near future." Besides, anyone produced or owns from anyone's collection of any real credible photo documentation from inside that station ever being built, in full or partially, yet?!? Now that's the $64,000 Question here. And so it goes... -William A. Padron ["Grant Avenue"] |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Apr 4 12:22:38 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by William A. Padron on Sun Apr 4 10:15:44 2021. You would think that any tunnel section would at least be inspected periodically. |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Apr 4 12:54:55 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by William A. Padron on Sun Apr 4 10:15:44 2021. The author notes that there was no newspaper coverage of any such construction if it had happened, no real infrastruce work evidence in that area (such as a pump room needed for the high water table), and no authorization froAll very conclusive points. |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Apr 4 13:30:36 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Apr 4 12:22:38 2021. who inspects the polo grounds shuttle tunnel? |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Apr 4 13:32:35 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by AlM on Sun Apr 4 12:54:55 2021. the tunnel was probably constructed in the early months of WW2,henchforth a news blackout on it. |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Apr 4 13:45:00 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Apr 4 13:32:35 2021. LOL! |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sun Apr 4 13:48:02 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by AlM on Sun Apr 4 12:54:55 2021. Another anecdote that tends to support (though admittedly doesn't totally prove) the tunnel's non-existence is that the LTV Squad never got inside it- despite what seems to me like some very credible attempts. |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by ro_jo on Sun Apr 4 14:55:46 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Apr 4 13:30:36 2021. True, and that one is definitely "on the books".Nobody was inspecting the old Cobble Hill tunnel until Bob Diamond found it in '84 |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Apr 4 15:05:08 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Apr 4 13:32:35 2021. Before WWII shut down construction, the IND tunnel excavation had only reached as far as Pitkin Ave & Ashford St. The concrete tunnel work came after the war. Plans to extend the subway beyond your beloved 76th St were shelved in 1938, due to the high water table, similar to that for Utica Ave, south of Kings Hwy. |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Apr 4 19:23:08 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by ro_jo on Sun Apr 4 14:55:46 2021. The Atlantic Ave. tunnel was mostly forgotten. |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Apr 4 21:28:50 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by William A. Padron on Sun Apr 4 10:15:44 2021. how about a face to face conversation with T.A. people who have been in the station,does that count? on this board I guess not. |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Apr 4 21:42:26 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Apr 4 21:28:50 2021. Who has been in the station? |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Apr 5 02:49:47 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Apr 4 15:05:08 2021. Although the plans were shelved due to a high water table, they certainly were still very much alive as late as 1948 when Euclid Ave opened or else the station and yard leads would not have been included on the Euclid Ave model board which they are. There also would have been no reason to bother constructing the A7 and A8 yard leads from Pitkin Yd as far as they were since they really served no useful purpose other than for an occasional drill move at the head of the yard. |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Apr 5 02:51:16 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Apr 4 21:28:50 2021. As I mentioned in my other post, all the TA employees I spoke to who reported seeing it are now deceased. |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Apr 5 03:06:08 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by MainR3664 on Sun Apr 4 08:20:53 2021. In all the reports about the existence of the station shell, nowhere was it ever mentioned that any service operated there or that any track was ever laid there. As I have often mentioned relative to this topic, the 174 St Yd in Was Hts was not built by the Board of Transportation but was built by the Board of Ed during the construction of PS 173 which was built a few years earlier to avoid having the school underpinned later by subway construction. The yard was built under the school site and lay there fir a couple of years till the rest of the IND was connected to it. A similar situation might very well have been the case with 76 St since at one point Pitkin Av which ended at approximately 75 St and was through routed with Old South Rd sometime in the 1930s. A check of the NY City archive failed to locate any maps of the area between the mid 1920s and 1950, so I was unable to ascertain the exact year the avenue was through routed. As was the case with 6th Av in Manhattan, Pitkin was in all likelihood through routed for the specific purpose of extending the subway. It’s a possibility that a city department other than the B of T not only through routed the street but may also have constructed the subway infrastructure in that area so that may account for the lack of documentation about the station. |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Apr 5 03:16:11 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Apr 3 23:28:15 2021. There are a few other urban legends about subway construction that there were no records or like the sections of the BMT 4 Av subway S/O 59 St that were built in the event the BRT wanted to make the line 4 tks all the way to 86 St. A PSC report mentions that when the Edison Co was building circuit breaker chambers under the east side of 4 Av it was requested by the PSC tp build them as sections of subway tunnel in the even they were needed for subway construction. As is the cas with 76 St, The plans I’ve seen for the 4 Av subway show no provisions for additional construction although track spaces for the additional tks were once visible at the S/E of bay Ridge Av and 77 St stations prior to platform lengthening and if you stand on the S/B platforms of those stations, you can see the N/B tkways under the N/B platforms. Again, since any provisions for the additional tks were built by an entity other than either the PSC or the BRT the MTA would have no record of their existence which is similar to the situation with 76 St. |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Apr 5 03:26:00 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by 3-9 on Sun Apr 4 04:47:46 2021. From what the people I spoke to told me, the first barrier that went up after the connection at Grant was made was a wooden wall. |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Mon Apr 5 07:33:53 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Apr 4 21:42:26 2021. 2 cops I worked with in the 7-5 pct. they got in 1978,my signal maintainer who worked the yard when it `st.opened,a m/m on the A train whom I started a conversation with while I patrolling the train.he was a conductor on the pump train and had to go in there to pump out the tunnel.this was in the early 1950`s.they went up to the end of track on track A7 which bumper blocked at the begining of the E/B station. |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Mon Apr 5 07:37:35 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Apr 4 21:28:50 2021. i,m gone untill next friday,i,ll answer any questions then. |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 5 07:41:09 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by randyo on Mon Apr 5 02:51:16 2021. How convenient. |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by VictorM on Mon Apr 5 10:56:36 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by randyo on Mon Apr 5 03:06:08 2021. I doubt the 174 St yard is under PS 173, only the S curve on the 2 through tracks going from 173 St and Broadway to 174 St and Ft Washington Av. The yard is only 5 tracks wide so I'm sure it stays under Broadway. |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by HANDBRAKE on Mon Apr 5 11:26:24 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Apr 4 12:22:38 2021. This is typical Subway Foaming Foam'er fantasy. Subway tunnel construction of the Fulton Street Subway ended in 1942, with no further construction work performed due materiel priorities during the Second World War.The planned extension of the Fulton Street Line into Southeast Queens did not materialize, as most on this board recognize, due to priorities given to highway building, and expansion. A partially completed station at 76th Street Queens remains a persistent rumor with no supporting evidence other than hear say information that originated from individuals now long deceased. Had an underground structure been built under an active City street, street level access would have been created to permit structural inspections of tunnels, along with the placement of emergency telephone for the use by inspectors. One example, are the abandoned sections of the Second Avenue Subway built during the 1970's where NYCT Equipment Maintenance Department (EMD) Telephone Maintainers performed routine inspection of telephone lines and equipment situated on tunnel walls. In the case of the rumored 76th Street Subway station tunnel, there is no planned routine inspection of telephone equipment at that reputed location. Fact, not fiction, and not hearsay information from some long dead eye witness. |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by HANDBRAKE on Mon Apr 5 11:30:47 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Apr 4 13:32:35 2021. Why a news blackout for a subway tunnel. Possible hiding place for a captured German U Boat, complete with Kriegsmarine Enigma Cypher Keys? |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by HANDBRAKE on Mon Apr 5 11:44:21 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by randyo on Mon Apr 5 02:49:47 2021. As is common knowledge, the Independent Subway System was designed from a master subway plan. The IND Fulton Line is no different, and ends at a bulk head wall across all four tracks just south of Euclid Avenue with the intent of future expansion into southeast Queens.An example of the above can be found at the lower level of the Archer Avenue line terminal of the J/Z Lines , where tracks end at bumper blocks at a bulkhead wall three trackways wide. The two Yard leads from Pitkin were built concurrent to the Pitkin Yard construction with the intent of meeting the Fulton Street Line south of Euclid and just north of the planed 76th Street station typical of IND Subway construction. An example are the Jamaica Yard leads on the IND Queens Boulevard Line. |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by HANDBRAKE on Mon Apr 5 12:03:38 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by randyo on Mon Apr 5 03:16:11 2021. Records of subway tunnel construction would have been performed by the planning entity, PSC, NYCT, MTA, etc, complete with both pre-construction surface survey, and underground construction progress photos taken to document all contractor work. Proof that work is progressing according to contract drawings, and requirements to justify contract payment.Contract work documentation, typically not a purview of a transit operating entity such as RTO, would be a non existent transaction to active train operating personnel. |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by Q4 on Mon Apr 5 13:40:25 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by LuchAAA on Fri Apr 2 19:23:36 2021. I recall that headline. |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Apr 5 16:48:55 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Apr 4 05:21:46 2021. With all of the water and muck that must be in that station shell, "Swamp People" might be a good choice! |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 5 16:59:06 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Apr 4 05:21:46 2021. It would be as much of a payoff as Al Capone's vault. |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Apr 5 19:53:10 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by HANDBRAKE on Mon Apr 5 11:44:21 2021. However, the Fulton St Line underwent several changes during the planning stage before the present route was finalized. Somewhere in my collection I have a plan showing the Fulton St subway continuing straight down Fulton St to SE Queens with the connection to the Fulton St el coming from North of Liberty Ave. I’ve also seen a proposal that calls for the IND to turn east from Penna Ave into Liberty Ave and connecting to the Fulton St straight near Grant Ave. As we all know, at some point the present routing was decided on which basically duplicated the original route of the Fulton St el to its present connection with the reclaimed el structure. |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Apr 5 19:55:29 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 5 07:41:09 2021. Well if the number of railfans who emerged to bring up the subject had been around 30 years or so ago when those people were still alive we could have gotten some more detailed info about the existence of the station. |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Apr 5 20:06:39 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by VictorM on Mon Apr 5 10:56:36 2021. I lived in that neighborhood and the only tks that are under Bway are the 2 easternmost tks A1 and A2 which are the ones that were supposed to go over the GWB. The rest of the yd id farther west between Bway and Ft Washington Ave which is where the school is. When I was a M/M I also drilled in 168 St station and the yard so I am familiar with the infrastructure of the subway in that area. |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Apr 5 20:11:59 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by HANDBRAKE on Mon Apr 5 12:03:38 2021. However at one time there was a record room in the basement of 370 Jay St which had a limited number of plans and blueprints for some of the subway lines and the ones I saw of the 4 Av subway showed no record of provisions for extra tracks for the 4 Av subway. The only reference to any such provisions are in the book “New Subways for NY” which is basically a PSC report from circa 1915 and is now out of print. |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by K. Trout on Mon Apr 5 20:33:42 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by HANDBRAKE on Mon Apr 5 11:26:24 2021. I'll refer again to a map I drew a while back of the Euclid Av/Pitkin Yard/76 St area. I think it's likely that the construction section went only as far as the cinder block wall - maybe Eldert Lane as a convenient survey marker - but anything beyond that has extremely shaky evidence.I suppose there must be documentation somewhere describing the exact scope of Route 110-10. The A7/A8 yard leads may well continue into the median of Conduit Av for some distance east of where K5/K6 diverge at about Belmont Av, but I don't see how, geometrically, they could have reached Pitkin Av in that amount of space without a very tight curve atypical of IND construction. (more discussion and sources for my calculations) |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Apr 5 22:06:35 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by randyo on Mon Apr 5 03:06:08 2021. I am willing to believe Pitkin Avenue was through-routed in anticipation of a subway being built there. There's no doubt a 76 St station was planned. Perhaps some other infrastructure was also placed in a manner to be out of the way of the planned tunnel.I very much doubt it got any farther than that. |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by VictorM on Tue Apr 6 03:45:42 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by randyo on Mon Apr 5 20:06:39 2021. So you're saying the remaining yard tracks, A3, A4 and A5 are on a sharp curve under the block bounded by Broadway, Ft Washington Av, 173 St and 174 St? |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by VictorM on Tue Apr 6 05:46:34 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by VictorM on Tue Apr 6 03:45:42 2021. I should have said A5, A6 and A7 instead of A3, A4 and A5 since A3 and A4 are the through tracks |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 6 10:52:31 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by randyo on Mon Apr 5 19:55:29 2021. Why was this never brought up at an ERA meeting or written about in a bulletin? |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Tue Apr 6 12:07:47 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 6 10:52:31 2021. Well, the ERA chartered a "rail polisher" fan trip back in 1965, using the R-1/9's to cover as much as the IND during nighttime. For their fantrip brochure, it was a four page booklet showing all the tracks used by the IND, and also provisions proposed for extensions. These tracks wwre hand drawn by David Rogoff, or "D.R."Yes, it does show 76th Street drawn there as a proposal for the Fulton Street Line to go further to Linden Boulevard via Pitkin Avenue. They were bulkheads, however, as noted in place as far west of the proposed station and proposed clead tracks to/from Pitkin Yard. The notes said as handwritten, "Structure & Tracks To Right of Bulkhead Never Built (Propsoed Only). It could mean that the main Fulton Street four-track line only went as far as Elderts Lane, as said in another post. There were bulkheads in place prior to the Liberty Avenue Extension and to/from Pitkin Yard there, but of course, they were removed after construction had begun during the 1950's and opened for service in April 1956. By the way, the brouchure also shows such IND gems at the 174th Street Yard under Broadway, the 6th Avenue Express and Chrystie Street Connection tracks under construction, ans so many of the proposed IND Second System bellmouths to other proposed routes too numerous to mention here. -William A. Padron ["IND"] |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Apr 6 13:06:42 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by William A. Padron on Tue Apr 6 12:07:47 2021. Great post 👍🏽 |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Apr 6 20:45:09 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by VictorM on Tue Apr 6 03:45:42 2021. They are not on any curve at all. they are perfectly straight. I've been there so I know. |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by VictorM on Tue Apr 6 21:52:33 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by randyo on Tue Apr 6 20:45:09 2021. What about the tracks that lead to the yard. Are they on a sharp curve? |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by Mark S. Feinman on Wed Apr 7 11:20:11 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by randyo on Mon Apr 5 20:11:59 2021. New Subways for New York: The Dual System of Rapid Transit--Mark |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Apr 7 13:32:17 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by randyo on Mon Apr 5 03:16:11 2021. I don't see how that's analogous. They didn't build the other two tracks on 4th Avenue either. |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Apr 7 14:14:04 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by VictorM on Tue Apr 6 21:52:33 2021. Not too sharp at all. The mainline curves are sharper because they swing from St Nicholas Av to Ft Washington Av. The Yard leads follow slightly west of Bway. |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Wed Apr 7 14:27:34 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by randyo on Wed Apr 7 14:14:04 2021. And to show all I am at the age to remember this...I recall that there was an entrance at the southwest corner of Fort Washington Avenue and West 174th Street (for the 175th Street station) that was adjacent on the same block of PS 173, where I went to grammar school way back then. There was a connecting pedestrian tunnel underneath the street between West 174th Street and West 175th Street, and towards the station's mezzanine level, as I recall. I even remember signs pointing towards "Broadway Temple", which was of course, on Broadway. The entrance was closed many years ago, along with the pedestrian tunnel sealed off. There is still a trace on there at that SW corner adjacent to the school, which is a very large sidewalk space, provided if any one who has prior knowledge of certain IND station entrances that have been sealed off. -William A. Padron ["175"] |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Apr 7 14:52:13 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Apr 7 13:32:17 2021. Although they did not build the other 2 tks on 4th Ave in their entirety, there may be sections of subway tunnel at various locations along 4th Ave that could be connected with new sections if the need ever arose which it obviously didn’t. |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by VictorM on Wed Apr 7 23:36:02 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by randyo on Wed Apr 7 14:14:04 2021. Here's an interesting NYC Digital Tax Map showing the subway easement (labeled "REUC") under the buildings at the northwest corner of Broadway and 173 St. The easement is labeled "REUC" The easement does not show under PS 173 since that is city owned property. (PS 173 is at the Ft Washington Av end of the block.):Here is a Google satellite view of the same area: Notice that large paved open area in the northeast corner of J. Hood Wright Park. The straight line distance from where the easement on the digital map ends to that open area is about 700 feet. I wouldn't be surprised if that's where the 3 western layup tracks of the 174 St yard end. In fact, some years ago, I was standing in the 175 St station and heard what I thought sounded like the rumble of a train but there were no trains in or near the station. It could have been a yard move. |
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Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street |
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Posted by VictorM on Wed Apr 7 23:43:23 2021, in response to Re: Latest FBI mafia graveyard excavation in Ozone Park may have stumbled upon 76th Street, posted by William A. Padron on Wed Apr 7 14:27:34 2021. Thanks for the info. Also see my response to randyo. |
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