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| Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station (1552296) | |
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| (1552825) | |
Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Jul 11 01:53:00 2020, in response to Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station, posted by VictorM on Sat Jul 11 00:49:19 2020. Au contraire. If they put a whole slew of folks to work building SAS, the money recirculates building back the economy. WPA both builtpart of the IND and helped thousands during the Depression (my own father included). Once we figure out/achieve a method of safe minging we need to get to work fixing large parts of the nation. |
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| (1552843) | |
Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station |
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Posted by VictorM on Sat Jul 11 10:45:12 2020, in response to Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Jul 11 01:53:00 2020. If you're going to spend money on infrastructure spend it where it will do the most good. For example, here in southern Queens they're replacing all the century old water mains and gas mains - a necessary project despite the inconvenience. |
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| (1552844) | |
Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Jul 11 11:05:31 2020, in response to Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station, posted by VictorM on Sat Jul 11 10:45:12 2020. Southern Brooklyn, too.Especially Canarsie, City Line, etc. |
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| (1552852) | |
Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Sat Jul 11 12:43:04 2020, in response to Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station, posted by VictorM on Sat Jul 11 10:45:12 2020. I used to draw the plans for water mains for Aqua in Philadelphia. Old water mains break down and collapse. |
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| (1552857) | |
Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jul 11 14:04:59 2020, in response to Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Jul 11 01:53:00 2020. Broken window fallacy. |
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| (1552858) | |
Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jul 11 14:06:01 2020, in response to Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station, posted by VictorM on Sat Jul 11 10:45:12 2020. Exactly. “Make-work” projects are not good. But if valuable projects can be done which make work, then that’s good. |
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| (1552862) | |
Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Jul 11 14:45:02 2020, in response to Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station, posted by VictorM on Sat Jul 11 10:45:12 2020. We've had our share of water main breaks in metro Denver over the last few years. |
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| (1552866) | |
Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Jul 11 16:17:32 2020, in response to Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jul 11 14:06:01 2020. your valuable project may be someone else's "make work" That said, most politicians do not understand or acknowledge the concept of entropy. |
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| (1552867) | |
Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Jul 11 16:19:24 2020, in response to Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jul 11 14:04:59 2020. another example of two persons looking at the same object but seeing different ones. YMMV |
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| (1552871) | |
Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jul 11 18:27:06 2020, in response to Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Jul 11 16:17:32 2020. But you claimed that building something ostensibly useless was its own good. |
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| (1552872) | |
Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jul 11 18:27:41 2020, in response to Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Jul 11 16:19:24 2020. What are you talking about? |
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| (1552874) | |
Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Jul 11 18:50:01 2020, in response to Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jul 11 18:27:06 2020. no, I did not. I DID claim that one person's useless is another person's either useful or merely excellent art for its own sake. My dad's WPA project was a careful cataloguing of all of the Christian parishs within the 5 boros. Having such data is useful to historians. |
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| (1552890) | |
Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jul 11 22:33:28 2020, in response to Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Jul 11 18:50:01 2020. I don’t consider compilation of knowledge to be useless. But won’t you admit that some public works projects are boondoggles and/or white elephants? |
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| (1552899) | |
Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Jul 11 23:52:26 2020, in response to Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jul 11 22:33:28 2020. yes, airports, most of the interstate highway system ALL of the missile silos, and contents.If you are interested in useless government spending, read up on Charles de Gaulle's critique of the Maginot Line of pillboxes. He was nearly cashiered out of the French Army for his views, but Heinz Guderian read his essay. Most boondoggles are built in order to distribute patronage to the connected political donors (bribers) who actually build the projects. . There was a New Jersey Congressman who gave up his seatto run for mayor. (Hugh Addonizio) read the wiki; he got a piece of every city contract. We in "the West" often criticize the kleptocratic post colonial dictatorships; we behave in the same way. BTW, in this periopd of "cleaning pp" public monuments, getting rid of the imagesof Spiro Agnew is on my list. Having the Veep receiving paper envelopes of cash in the office is really low rent behavior. Now as to rail boondoggles, the oculus, the deep bore SAS, almost every foot of BART (I ride regularly, but I resent the shitty design andthe ripoff fares. ), the entire imperial capital design of WMATA (and again the outrageous fare structure). End of rant, and apologies iftoo long. |
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| (1552920) | |
Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station |
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Posted by George Foelschow on Sun Jul 12 12:23:29 2020, in response to Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Jul 11 23:52:26 2020. I'll join your BART rant. Every time I visit San Francisco I resent the SFO fare that is double the fare from nearby stations. There is really no alternative. The same goes for Oakland. The premium fare is based on the outmoded notion that air travel is only for the wealthy. |
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| (1552921) | |
Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sun Jul 12 12:24:17 2020, in response to Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Jul 11 23:52:26 2020. The SAS is useful. |
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| (1552929) | |
Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Jul 12 13:48:03 2020, in response to Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station, posted by George Foelschow on Sun Jul 12 12:23:29 2020. The technological ability to collect point to point fares via electronic fare gates is an unfortunate facet of the march of automation. CTA (thank you, Rahm Emmanuel) has joined BART in gouging arriving pax at O'Hare though not Midway. If one is going to be there for several days, I think one can escape the airport surcharge with a 3 day or longer pass. BART does not sell passes.Because BART is so unable to build anything at reasonable costs, the airport extension came in at roughly the cost (not fudged for inflation) of the original system. Even with "free" federal money, that was a stretch. |
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| (1552931) | |
Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Jul 12 13:52:46 2020, in response to Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sun Jul 12 12:24:17 2020. I never said it wasn't. |
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| (1552947) | |
Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Jul 12 17:54:16 2020, in response to Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Jul 12 13:48:03 2020. Here in metro Denver, you can get from the airport to Union Station downtown for $10.50, which is good system-wide on light rail, commuter rail and bus. What I don't like is if you leave your car at the RTD Park'n'Ride at 61st Ave., the last stop before DIA, you still have to buy an airport pass for $10.50. With the automated fare collection system we have, they could easily set it up so that if you're going to the airport from 61st Ave, you could buy a one-way ticket at half fare. Maybe I shouldn't complain too much; in a year and a half, I'll be eligible for a senior citizen discount. |
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| (1552971) | |
Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sun Jul 12 20:38:07 2020, in response to Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Jul 11 23:52:26 2020. Speaking of BART, I wonder if they ever closed the loophole that I exploited during my visits in the 90s. BART had a policy that if you entered and exited at the same station, you would be charged what I think they called an "excursion" fare. I forget the exact amount, but it was like 2 or 3 dollars and change. Those of you who are familiar with BART know that they have two stations on Market St in SF that are very close together (Powell St and Montgomery St). You can stand at the east end of Powell and see the lights of Montgomery. So when I was going on a railfanning trip, I would get on at one station, take my rides without leaving the system, and get off at the other station. The faregate would charge me the minimum fare which was like 80 cents (which was actually cheaper than Muni back then). I guess the faregate logic was too stupid to wonder why it took 2 or 3 hours to travel several blocks (when you could probably crawl the distance in less time). :)Could probably do the same thing with 12th St & 19th St in downtown Oakland, though I never did. (The one time I stayed in Oakland, the hotel was right at the 12th St station. The day I arrived, I took a short trip, 12th St to MacArthur, but I left the system at MacArthur, then reentered and rode back to 12th St, so was only charged two minimum fares) |
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| (1552978) | |
Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Jul 12 22:14:57 2020, in response to Re: Why New York City will never build another subway station, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sun Jul 12 20:38:07 2020. yes, the excursion fare still exists, and though I haven't done the one station away trick in years, I suspect it is still part of the program.When first open, the 'free transfer' machines meant one could in many case,take BART one way, then AC or Muni for the return. Before the transfermachines wereremoved fares had jumped such that the 25cdiscount was barely worth taking the time to collect the paper. |
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