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| Tuscarora Almanac for May 20 (1548022) | |
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| (1548022) | |
Tuscarora Almanac for May 20 |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed May 20 07:19:22 2020 Tuscarora Almanac – May 20, 1955 – The Book of Last Runs West Orange, New Jersey Erie Railroad This is the last day for passenger service on the Erie Railroad Orange (NJ) Branch. The final run will be powered by Alco RS-2 908. (Erie Classification MPSA-15). The line will continue to be served by freight trains. The section of track between Silver Lake and Bloomfield has been served by the Newark City Subway since 2002. The line extended four miles from the Forest Hill station on the Greenwood Lake Division to West Orange with stations at Forest Hills, Silver Lake, Bloomfield, Watsessing Junction, East Orange (Prospect Street), Brighton Avenue, Orange, Llewellyn and West Orange. Source: “Trackside along the Erie Railroad and its Connections” (Morning Sun Books /2009) by Mr. Jim Kostibos Erie Railroad Company Eastern District Employee Timetable No. 60, effective 2:01 A,M. April 24, 1960 Tuscarora Almanac - May 20, 1970 - The Book of Wrecks Jackson Heights, Queens, New York New York City Transit Authority IND Division There was a major collision on the IND Queens Line today between two "GG" trains just of Roosevelt Avenue Station. The 7:13 AM departure from Forest Hills experienced brake problems at Woodhaven Boulevard. The passengers were discharged and the first two cars of the train were "cut-out". The motorman then proceeded to operate the train from the third car relying on hand signals from the conductor in the first car. Follow "EE" and "GG" trains were routed to the express track on leaving Forest Hills and back to the local tracks west of Roosevelt Avenue. The 7:33 AM "GG" was in the process of switching back to the local track when it was struck by the deadheading train. Due to the fact that the 713 had the brake cut out on the first two cars the trip cocks on the interlocking signals failed to stop it. The crash resulted in two fatalities and nearly eighty injured. These were in first passenger fatalities on the transit system in over forty years. The consist of the 713 was (s) 4501-00, 4043-42, 3992-93, 4548-49. The consist of the 733 was (s) 6344, 6492, 6318, 6469, 6304, 6468, 6315, and 6355. R-16 6304 bore the brunt of the collision and had to be cut up on the spot. R-40M 4501 was also heavily damaged. Source: New York Division Bulletin /June 1970 Tuscarora Almanac - May 20, 1974 - The Book of First Runs Jamaica, New York Long Island Railroad The Long Island Railroad begins issuance of new color- coded timetables. The form numbers with their colors are: 1) Port Washington Branch / red 2) Port Jefferson Branch / dark blue 3) Ronkonkoma Branch / purple 4) Oyster Bay Branch / light green 5) Hempstead Branch / buff 6) Far Rockaway Branch / dark brown 7) Babylon Branch / dark green 8) Long Beach Branch / orange 9) West Hempstead Branch / light blue On October 7, 1974 two additional forms were added: 10) Eastern Long Island / turquoise 11) City Terminal Zone / gray Source: New York Division Bulletin /May 1994 Tuscarora Almanac – May 20, 1984 – The Book of First Runs Miami, Florida Metro-Dade Transit Authority Metrorail, Miami’s first rapid transit line begins operation between Overtown and Dadeland South stations. Source: New York Division Bulletin /May 2009 Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20 |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Wed May 20 07:54:50 2020, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for May 20, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed May 20 07:19:22 2020. Do you know how the LI timetable colors were decided and why they went for them at that point?Thanks. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20 |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Wed May 20 08:33:16 2020, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for May 20, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed May 20 07:19:22 2020. I used to have those LIRR timetables (they are long gone). My mother and I would occasionally take LIRR to Babylon to visit college friends of her who lived in (I think) North Babylon. I forget why we didn't drive. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20 |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed May 20 12:48:26 2020, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for May 20, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed May 20 07:19:22 2020. A very important day in the history of MTA/NYCT. 50 year anniversary of the Roosevelt Ave. wreck.Certainly not a day to celebrate, but to acknowledge. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20 |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed May 20 14:56:05 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20, posted by Union Tpke on Wed May 20 07:54:50 2020. I do not know what their logic was. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20 |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Wed May 20 16:22:06 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed May 20 12:48:26 2020. You were probably in high school or close to entering.This crash would be a criminal trial today. What do you think went wrong. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20 |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Wed May 20 17:09:28 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Wed May 20 08:33:16 2020. I used to have those LIRR timetables (they are long gone)Me too. Every branch had it's own color in the 70's when I was a kid and I wanted one timetable of every color. I forget why we didn't drive. Because she knew you're a buff and wanted you to be happy. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20 |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Wed May 20 17:11:50 2020, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for May 20, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed May 20 07:19:22 2020. Looking at a photo of #4501 it's hard to imagine how it ever got returned to service. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20 |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Wed May 20 17:18:12 2020, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for May 20, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed May 20 07:19:22 2020. The crash resulted in two fatalities and nearly eighty injured.The IND Roosevelt Ave wreck. The DA would bring criminal charges against someone for this today. I wonder what happened? What did the flagger see or not see to allow the train to proceed? |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20 |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed May 20 18:20:33 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20, posted by LuchAAA on Wed May 20 17:18:12 2020. I wonder what happened? What did the flagger see or not see to allow the train to proceed? There was insufficent communication between the motorman and the employee at the front of the train. In any event there should have been an understanding to stop at Roosevelt Avenue station under any circumstances as that was an interlocking. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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[PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20 |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed May 20 18:51:58 2020, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for May 20, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed May 20 07:19:22 2020.    Car: R-40M (St. Louis, 1969) 4501 (ex-4301)...Photo by: Steve Zabel...Collection of: Joe Testagrose...Date: 4/23/1971...nycsubway.org  Location: Brighton Beach...Route: B...Car: R-40M (St. Louis, 1969)... 4501Photo by: Michael Hodurski...Date: 7/31/2007...nycsubway.org |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20 |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed May 20 19:44:36 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed May 20 18:20:33 2020. Always wondered why no radios or PA systems were used instead of hand signals? |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20 |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Wed May 20 20:00:40 2020, in response to [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed May 20 18:51:58 2020. What makes 4501's repair after such massive damage all the more mind-boggling is the first three minutes of this video (summary: a five-year-old Mercedes G-Wagon, worth at least $75,000, is hauled off to a junkyard because of a broken taillight). |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20 |
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Posted by Asgard on Wed May 20 21:29:35 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed May 20 18:20:33 2020. As I recall, this was compounded by the cars being a married pair. If they had been singles, the brakes would have been tripped on the second rather than the third car, and the train would have stopped short of the converging switch. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20 |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Wed May 20 21:48:45 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed May 20 18:20:33 2020. Yeah.They should have stopped at Roosevelt and waited for more supervision and maybe some switchmen from the yard or Continental. It's a gap station and you would need instructions from there. You would think they would have sent supervision and some switchmen on an express to be dropped off to help at Woodhaven or Roosevelt. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20 |
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Posted by randyo on Wed May 20 22:59:42 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20, posted by Asgard on Wed May 20 21:29:35 2020. Even if the tripcock had been activated on the second car, its doubtful that the train would have been stopped in time to avoid some sort of a collision. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20 |
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Posted by randyo on Wed May 20 23:02:39 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20, posted by LuchAAA on Wed May 20 21:48:45 2020. After that, the rules changed requiring either a M/M/I, trainmaster of T/D who had been a former M/M to be on the scene if a train were moved from other than the head car. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20 |
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Posted by Express Rider on Wed May 20 23:10:30 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20, posted by randyo on Wed May 20 23:02:39 2020. Can you recall or know any other accidents in decades past (pre or post city ownership) that were a result of the same situation? Where the motorman was operating from one or more cars back receiving hand signals from conductor? |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20 |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Wed May 20 23:11:43 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20, posted by LuchAAA on Wed May 20 17:09:28 2020. Because she knew you're a buff and wanted you to be happy.Perhaps. On one of those trips, we got an MP54 instead of the usual M-1. Had a bar car and everything. Seems like it was an express of some sort, appeared to be a different route and we skipped the usual stations (Amityville, Bethpage, Copiague, etc. On a Sunday at that (it was in August, maybe a beach special?) |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20 |
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Posted by gbs on Thu May 21 01:43:51 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20, posted by LuchAAA on Wed May 20 21:48:45 2020. My recollection is that the BO R40 train did stop at Roosevelt, but for some unknown reason it started again while the R16s were in the process of switching. What I never understood was how hand signals could be used. How could the train operator in the cab of the third car see any signals from the front of the first car? Was there another person or other persons in a communication chain of some kind, relaying the information from car to car? Did the rules back then require a maximum speed of 10 mph during other-than-head-car operation? |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20 |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu May 21 01:59:41 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20, posted by gbs on Thu May 21 01:43:51 2020. but for some unknown reason it started again while the R16s were in the process of switching.maybe the C/R did not know how to read the homeball leaving the station? Or got so close that he did not see? What I never understood was how hand signals could be used. How could the train operator in the cab of the third car see any signals from the front of the first car? Was there another person or other persons in a communication chain of some kind, relaying the information from car to car? Yup. Buzzers would be used. Two buzzes to proceed, long single buzz STOP. Motorman probably took a point(10 mph/"switching") and coasted and would stick his head out at times to check the signals himself. Did the rules back then require a maximum speed of 10 mph during other-than-head-car operation? |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20 |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu May 21 06:38:47 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20, posted by Peter Rosa on Wed May 20 20:00:40 2020. What makes 4501's repair after such massive damage all the more mind-boggling is the first three minutes of this video (summary: a five-year-old Mercedes G-Wagon, worth at least $75,000, is hauled off to a junkyard because of a broken taillight).Interesting video, thanks. 4501 was about two years of at the time of the wreck, so it wasn't a totaled making it an expensive fix. The craftsmen at Coney Island shops most likely rebuilt 4501 back to roadworthy condition. So where did the stainless body panels and end bonnet come from ? I guess the TA contacted the sub contractor to stamp out new panels and new fiberglass end bonnet too. Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't know if there was any interior damage. If you look at 4501 on the bottom photo at Brighton Beach, look at the body section with the picture window and number plate, you'll see what looks like and new section of stainless steel grafted on by the horizontal crease. Bill Newkirk |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20 |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu May 21 07:55:15 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20, posted by gbs on Thu May 21 01:43:51 2020. I didn't hear about the accident when it happened (I was 11 and didn't watch TV news or read newspapers much, I was busy with my new obsession, the World Champion New York Mets) :) I read about it in the excellent book, Uptown Downtown. In it, it is mentioned that while most of the geese got off at Woodhaven, one person stayed on who was headed for Roosevelt, figuring that the train would have to stop there anyway. Which it did, and the pax alighted there. Don't think that had any bearing on the crash though. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20 |
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Posted by zac on Thu May 21 07:56:03 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20, posted by Asgard on Wed May 20 21:29:35 2020. Yes, I recall that as well. The QB line was signalled and protected for single car R1-9 units. I believe the second car operation was allowed because it was still considered safe. But in this case it was third car operation.But I'd have to agree with others, why didn't the train stop and stay at Roosevelt until supervision came? |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20 |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Thu May 21 14:28:46 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu May 21 06:38:47 2020. I wonder if the manufacturers did/do have some spare body parts for future repairs, or if they only make what's needed for each order. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20 |
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Posted by randyo on Thu May 21 14:33:52 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu May 21 06:38:47 2020. I seem to recall that on one of my visits to CIYd I saw a few R-40 and 42 end bonnets stacked up somewhere in the shop. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20 |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu May 21 14:59:44 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20, posted by Peter Rosa on Thu May 21 14:28:46 2020. I wonder if the manufacturers did/do have some spare body parts for future repairs, or if they only make what's needed for each order.That could be possible. Bill Newkirk |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20 |
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Posted by gbs on Thu May 21 22:33:18 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu May 21 07:55:15 2020. But you confirmed my recollection that the R40 stopped at Roosevelt and didn't just pass through without stopping and crash into the R16. The big mystery is why the R40 started moving again when it wasn't safe. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 20 |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri May 22 22:16:41 2020, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for May 20, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed May 20 07:19:22 2020. Unintended consequence of the Roosevelt Ave. wreck. Several EEs were sent to Astoria. Shown here is a set of R1-9s at Ditmars soon to head back to Manhattan. Would have liked to have been there to see that or better yet be walking along 31st St & hear them take off wondering out loud, WTF? |
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