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| (1547160) | |
Canarsie Line |
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Posted by alantrain on Thu May 14 13:20:21 2020 I grew up in ENY right next to the Canarsie Line near New Lots Ave station. In the forties and fifties, 3 services ran in the PM rush. Locals all stops 8th Ave to Myrtle, then retrun to NY, Express- All stops to Lorimer St and then express to Myrtle, then all stops to Canarsie, also a Fulton Express- all stops to Lorimer St then express to Myrtle and then all stops to Lefferts Ave ( not Blvd at that time). They used Standards on the Canarsie runs, and Multis as well, even the "blue train" (that was cute) .and Only multies ( lighter weight) on the Lefferts run.Does any one know, after all the money spent on automation now, whether more or less trains run as compared to then? Also, is the time shortened on the end to end runs? Wasn't there talk of instituting express runs again? Yes, one train cannot pass another on the line, but what happened was the Canarsie bound expresses had less people as there were so many stations bypassed. |
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| (1547172) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu May 14 15:46:20 2020, in response to Canarsie Line, posted by alantrain on Thu May 14 13:20:21 2020. I believe that the 14th St-Canarsie Express also skipped Sutter Ave. |
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| (1547184) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by randyo on Thu May 14 16:28:32 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Elkeeper on Thu May 14 15:46:20 2020. How could that be since the only trains going past Myrtle were the expresses, the locals turning at Myrtle. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1547187) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by BMT Standard on Thu May 14 16:45:19 2020, in response to Canarsie Line, posted by alantrain on Thu May 14 13:20:21 2020. The express/local service on the line took advantage of the high performance of the lightweight multi-section cars. A local train of lightweight cars could almost keep up with the lumbering Standards skipping stations. |
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| (1547198) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu May 14 17:32:56 2020, in response to Canarsie Line, posted by alantrain on Thu May 14 13:20:21 2020. Does any one know, after all the money spent on automation now, whether more or less trains run as compared to then?The BMT and the TA operated 24 tph peak through the early 1970's. The pre-Covid peak was 20 tph. The excuse is lack of electric power. They are building 3 new substations. This will permit 22 tph peak. Also, is the time shortened on the end to end runs? The scheduled time for the local between Canarsie and 8th Ave has not changed. However, a check of the real time feed shows that many of today's trains take considerably less time than the schedule. The schedule is padded to improve on time performance. The scheduled run time for the A train between Lefferts Blv and 14th St takes longer than the scheduled run time for the Multis and Bluebird on the 14th St Express. The A train makes fewer stops. |
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| (1547210) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu May 14 19:26:28 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by BMT Standard on Thu May 14 16:45:19 2020. Those multisectionals could blow the doors off any other piece of equipment. |
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| (1547213) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Thu May 14 19:40:46 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu May 14 17:32:56 2020. The A train makes fewer stops, but covers more mileage. |
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Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Michael549 on Thu May 14 23:58:54 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Dyre Dan on Thu May 14 19:40:46 2020. As well as takes a completely different pathway, plus the interactions of other train routes.Mike |
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| (1547286) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri May 15 15:20:37 2020, in response to Canarsie Line, posted by alantrain on Thu May 14 13:20:21 2020. Wasn't there also a service from Canal St. on the Jamaica line to ENY, thence to Canarsie? |
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| (1547312) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by randyo on Fri May 15 18:02:00 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by italianstallion on Fri May 15 15:20:37 2020. Yes. |
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Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by alantrain on Fri May 15 18:34:26 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by italianstallion on Fri May 15 15:20:37 2020. Yes, as I remember it ,from my bedroom window, every other train came from Canal St. Also, strangely a few had destination signs of "Bowery". They were all Standards signed B'way B'kln Local |
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Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat May 16 10:33:39 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by italianstallion on Fri May 15 15:20:37 2020. Toward the end of the Broadway-Brooklyn Local (Line 14) Canarsie was one of several end-points for the service; others were Eastern Parkway, Atlantic Avenue, and Crescent Street. Maybe also 111th Street at one time.This was also the original Canarsie Line service before 1924, with origin at Broadway Ferry; later from Essex Street, and then Canal Street. |
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| (1547424) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by randyo on Sat May 16 15:12:06 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by SLRT on Sat May 16 10:33:39 2020. Correct. When I was breaking in at Tower 1 I recall seeing PM Bway Bkln Lcls signed for Crescent St. There used to be AM Crescent St lcls also but circa 1960 when skip stop service was started on the Jamaica Line the former Crescent St trains originated at Jamaica. |
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| (1547448) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat May 16 20:19:06 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by alantrain on Fri May 15 18:34:26 2020. My BMT standard signbox has a Bowery destination sign. Not to mention Canal St. |
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Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat May 16 20:29:29 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by randyo on Thu May 14 16:28:32 2020. I guess that my post-WWII BMT subway car map was incorrect, then. |
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| (1547485) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by randyo on Sun May 17 02:17:23 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Elkeeper on Sat May 16 20:29:29 2020. It might be. Some of the postwar Hagstrom maps had errors like one that appeared in the cars listing the HH Fulton St Lcl as operating between Court St and ENY 2 years after the only HH that did operate, the Court - Hoyt shuttle had been abandoned. |
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| (1547504) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun May 17 08:13:47 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by randyo on Sun May 17 02:17:23 2020. I have a set of 1948 Hagstrom maps that show both the stub and service. |
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| (1547511) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun May 17 09:41:51 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by SLRT on Sat May 16 10:33:39 2020. I never understood why the Canarsie Line was 16 and not 14. Would have made more sense. |
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| (1547548) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun May 17 12:37:14 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu May 14 19:26:28 2020. They just had issues slowing down. One piece of equipment I really wish they had kept for preservation. |
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| (1547595) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by randyo on Sun May 17 17:40:26 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun May 17 08:13:47 2020. That would be one of the maps I was referring to. |
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| (1547601) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by randyo on Sun May 17 17:58:21 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun May 17 12:37:14 2020. From what the old timers told me the Multis braking rate was better than the R16s that came in the property in the mid 1950s. |
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| (1547608) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun May 17 18:17:37 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun May 17 09:41:51 2020. Why would it have made more sense? |
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| (1547623) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun May 17 18:49:27 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by randyo on Sun May 17 17:58:21 2020. Maybe better suited for their weight. R16's were obese. |
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Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sun May 17 19:11:11 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Elkeeper on Sat May 16 20:29:29 2020. is this the BMT-line-only map in the style of the ealier pre-war editions, but not showing the inner/downton Bklyn. Fulton St. line with a blank instead, and message boxes stating to use the IND Fulton St. line instead? |
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| (1547641) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun May 17 19:17:16 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat May 16 20:19:06 2020. Would it be a north or south sign ? |
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Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun May 17 20:33:51 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Joe V on Sun May 17 18:49:27 2020. The BMT standards were even more so. |
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Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun May 17 20:34:21 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Express Rider on Sun May 17 19:11:11 2020. Remember the original subway maps in the R-10's? That's the ones I'm talking about! With the "HH" going to B'way-East NY. |
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| (1547691) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by randyo on Mon May 18 03:10:01 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Joe V on Sun May 17 19:17:16 2020. BMT steels did not have either “north” or “south” destination signs. All destination signs carried readings for both directions and were set up so that the destination would be set on the car signs closest to the terminal the train was going to. Of course this presented problems on trains going through the Nassau Loop when the directions of the trains changed. |
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| (1547698) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon May 18 07:30:15 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun May 17 18:17:37 2020. Because it's the 14 Street Canarsie Line. |
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| (1547700) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon May 18 07:45:35 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon May 18 07:30:15 2020. They didn't care. 4th Avenue local was the "2', not "4". |
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| (1547710) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon May 18 09:02:56 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Elkeeper on Sun May 17 20:34:21 2020. Oh, OK.By the time I was riding R-10s* (mid 1960s), they had the '63, '64, or '65 TA maps in them. I think I've seen the one you're referring to though.** The map you are referring to was a Hagstrom right? With an oblong rectangular shape. The IND lines were thick red with all stations listed? The IRT and BMT route lines, were much thinner (IRT-Blue, BMT-yellow). On these latter, all stations were shown with the little round circles, but maybe only express stations were listed/named? And adjacent to the map, you described, the IND routes, their letters & terminal stations were listed, corect IIRC? Did the route letters also appear on the maps as well - with the route letters shown at both terminal destinations? I don't remember. *and I knew what they were. **I first saw these division oriented maps in some of the subway cars at the museum***. Then, at one NY Div meeting in maybe 1993 or'94 someone showed up with maps in this style for all three divisions - I was ready to snap them up, but didn't have the cash (he wanted only ten bucks for each one - pre-internet, pre-ebay, hah,hah!) ***In the past, IIRC, the museum was not always consistent about placing historically accurate maps in their subway car collection either. That's a no brainer as far as I was concerned. A museum with their resources (former employees with collections like the museum's founder) should have been able to borrow and color copy maps from the pre-dual contract era, through the late 1940s for gate cars, AB's, Low-V's, Q's, R1-9s, R-10s etc. At various times, the cars, have displayed photocopied maps, of "fair" quality that were almost but not always era-correct. Long post. Thanks for reading, "listening." |
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| (1547711) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon May 18 09:03:27 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Joe V on Mon May 18 07:45:35 2020. Joe: The BRT seems to have had a route numbering system in effect as early as 1910. These route number were for internal purposes only. Under this system The Broadway Line between Cypress Hills and Delancey Street was No.2. The Canarsie Line between Canarsie and Delancey Street was No. 4. Recall that prior to 1928 the Canarsie Line trains had to run along the Broadway-Brooklyn Line to reach Manhattan. The route numbering system was changed after most of the Dual Contract construction was done and prior to the arrival of the "D" Types. Under this system the Broadway-Canarsie trains became RT.14. The isolated 14th Street-Eastern District Line became No. 16. The 14th Street Line was eventually connected to the Canarsie Line in 1928. After this the 14th Street Line became the primary Manhattan route for the Canarsie Line trains. Some Manhattan service continued to run over the Bway-Bklyn Line as RT. 14. Larry, RedbirdR33 Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon May 18 09:15:51 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by italianstallion on Fri May 15 15:20:37 2020. The JJ ran like that (but from Broad Street) in the immediate post-Chrystie period. I'm looking at my 1967 TA map as I type this. |
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Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by BMT Standard on Mon May 18 11:27:55 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by randyo on Mon May 18 03:10:01 2020. Nassau Loop trains really had only one terminal. The other destination sign was set to a "Nassau Loop" reading. |
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Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon May 18 11:43:24 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Joe V on Sun May 17 19:17:16 2020. Probably south. Before 1931, Chambers St was as far south as you could travel. With B'way-Bklyn, Myrtle Ave, and Canarsie trains crossing the Willie B (along with a few LIRR ones), both Canal St an Bowery had to be used, especially during rush hours. |
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Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon May 18 11:59:08 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun May 17 09:41:51 2020. When the first section of the 14th St Line was open in 1924, the Broadway-Brooklyn Line had already been designated as "14". The only steel subway cars on the Eastern Division at the time were the Standards and they carried no numerical designation on them. The Multis, with their front numbered routes did not go into service until 1936. The Triplexes, with their numbered signs, were never used on the Eastern Division. |
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| (1547742) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 18 12:57:44 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon May 18 07:30:15 2020. DOY! Thanks. |
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Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Mon May 18 13:22:17 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon May 18 07:30:15 2020. Makes sense, the 14th street bus was always the (M)14, even before the renumbering that matched most of the other crosstown routes with the numerical street they were on. |
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Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon May 18 13:41:24 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by BMT Standard on Mon May 18 11:27:55 2020. 
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Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon May 18 15:14:55 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon May 18 09:03:27 2020. Plus, the 14 to Canarsie and the 16 to Canarsie operated in the same timem frame. |
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Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon May 18 15:21:02 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by SLRT on Mon May 18 15:14:55 2020. Plus, the 14 to Canarsie and the 16 to Canarsie operated in the same timem frame. Back in the pre-Chrystie Street 60's the R-16's were the usual equipment on the Broadway-Brooklyn Local. Occasionally one would show up on the Canarsie or Myrtle-Chambers lines so you got to see both the 10 and 16 signage. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon May 18 15:22:04 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun May 17 09:41:51 2020. If they tried to do that kind of pairing it would cause problems because there aren't enough likely letters or numbers to be an effective mnemonic.When they match, it's generally a happy accident. B = Brighton (but only recently) C = Concourse (but no longer) J = Jamaica M = Myrtle (but it was used for the 4th Avenue-Nassau Express pre-Christie, probably because the signs said "M--Nassau Street Express) W = West End (but not any more) |
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Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 18 15:44:09 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by SLRT on Mon May 18 15:22:04 2020. M = Metropolitan (also).W = Whitehall. |
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Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon May 18 16:14:43 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by SLRT on Mon May 18 15:22:04 2020. Of all those, I think only the J (and maybe the M) was intentionally matched. |
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Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon May 18 16:39:50 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by italianstallion on Mon May 18 16:14:43 2020. I agree. |
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Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon May 18 16:41:57 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 18 15:44:09 2020. Of course, the first post-Christie Whitehall service was tagged EE, though the signs said "8th Avenue Local."The neat IND lettering system went all to hell. |
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Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon May 18 16:47:15 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by MainR3664 on Mon May 18 09:15:51 2020. The JJ was the rush hour '14' replacement, AND the overnight/weekend truncation of the QJ. That confused a lot of passengers, until the Canal Street rush hour version got replaced by KK. They probably should have called it that from Nov 67. |
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| (1547795) | |
Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 18 17:04:47 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by SLRT on Mon May 18 16:41:57 2020. If the double letter system were still in use, the W should have been the NN, because there’s no U train.Also, the modern C is properly the AA. |
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Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon May 18 18:20:40 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon May 18 15:21:02 2020. It was a random mixed bag of R16's and Standards, and either 5 or 6 cars. The Jamaica Yard crisis of around 1965 or 1966 sent 40 R16's to GG service, backfilled with Standards of the scrap line and more apt to get one on the "14". |
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Re: Canarsie Line |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon May 18 18:22:31 2020, in response to Re: Canarsie Line, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 18 17:04:47 2020. Or maybe the W would be "NT" as there was a Q and QT that ran concurrently. |
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