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| (1538294) | |
Brighton Express B Hours Cut |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat Feb 15 13:04:28 2020 Apologies if this has been covered, but I see the November 2019 B Train Schedule has the last trains, both North- and South-Bound cut by about an hour.Last train leaves Brighton Beach 8:59p (was 10:08p - 7 fewer trains) Last train arrives Brighton Beach 10:17p (was 11:09p - 5 fewer) I wonder if there were other "quiet" cuts, |
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| (1538295) | |
Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sat Feb 15 13:25:18 2020, in response to Brighton Express B Hours Cut, posted by SLRT on Sat Feb 15 13:04:28 2020. This and other changes were approved by the MTA Board last July to better accommodate late night maintenance work:NYC Transit is proposing to make changes to some evening and late-night schedules on the B,R and W subway lines and to some weekend schedules on the A andC subway lines in November 2019 to accommodate the rigorous maintenance, repair and construction projects associated with the Subway Action Plan, Fast Forward and other efforts to improve service, while also operating the best service possible for our customers as this essential work is underway. The schedule changes would shorten the span of weekday evening service on the B andW subway lines and adjust the weekday evening frequency of R service to facilitate track replacement, signal and power cable upgrades, and drain cleaning that requires greater train separation, as well as transitioning to the overnight service pattern earlier than previously scheduled. In addition, the schedule changes would adjust weekend frequency of A andC subway service during the busiest times of day on Saturdays on the A and on Sundays on the A andC, to facilitate ongoing and upcoming capital investments, in particular the Fast Forward initiative to install Communications-Based Train Control (CBTC) signals on the 8th Avenue line between Columbus Circle-59th Street and High Street. These changes – already implemented regularly via temporary schedules most weeknights and weekends – will help customers plan ahead with a stable and reliable schedule. Incorporating these schedule revisions into our base timetables will result in more efficient and less costly service, while providing more consistent evening and late-night service for our customers. Recommendation Implement schedule adjustments for the B,R and W routes on weekday evenings and on the A and C routes on weekends to accommodate long-term construction and maintenance work. Budget Impact Implementation of the proposed A,B,C, R and W schedule changes would save approximately $1.5 million annually, and reduce the need for overtime, by moving the transition from evening to overnight service earlier by less than one hour and by reducing the frequency of weekend service during the busiest hours. Proposed Implementation Date A,B,C, R and W schedule changes would be implemented in November 2019. |
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| (1538297) | |
Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat Feb 15 14:32:23 2020, in response to Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut, posted by italianstallion on Sat Feb 15 13:25:18 2020. I dunno. This sounds like old-fashioned excuses where they argued that less service was really better service, like when they claimed that beefed-up B54 buses would really be better than keeping the Lower Myrtle. |
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| (1538298) | |
Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Feb 15 15:10:03 2020, in response to Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut, posted by SLRT on Sat Feb 15 14:32:23 2020. It's more like when they cut the weekend G from Queens Blvd. "We cut it all the time anyway, might as well be honest and consistent about it". |
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| (1538307) | |
Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Feb 15 16:13:29 2020, in response to Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut, posted by SLRT on Sat Feb 15 14:32:23 2020. Well it’s still later that what Brighton Exp service used to be pre Chrystie and even for many years after that. I’m not sure of the exact times but I believe that when the D was the Brighton exp, the last exp arrived at BBC around 900PM. |
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| (1538309) | |
Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Feb 15 16:16:57 2020, in response to Brighton Express B Hours Cut, posted by SLRT on Sat Feb 15 13:04:28 2020. IIRC the B line was given an approximate 70-75 minute service-span lengthening into the evening in July 2008. This basically undoes it though. Actually, it's probably better they just officially state it as it seemed to be ending early unofficially at times and sometimes without notice to passengers. I'm almost certain the last departure in the mid 2000s from 145th was 8:55p.m., so we still end up 2 runs over compared with that.This little press release from July 2008 says a little bit about what happened. M service to Broad, and W service overall, also saw their hours extended. Of course, the M to Broad, and W service overall, would both disappear with the 2010 cuts, though the B continued to maintain its new and improved hours even afterward. Missing from that press release for some reason, though, is the introduction of the late night 3 train to Times Square. |
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| (1538310) | |
Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Feb 15 16:22:34 2020, in response to Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Feb 15 15:10:03 2020. I'd like to go back and count how many weekends in a row the G was cut back as part of a GO/Service Advisory before it was finally done officially. I specifically remember a Labor Day when the G cutback was the only advisory systemwide. The advisory probably set the record for most consecutive weekends, maybe all-time. |
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| (1538311) | |
Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat Feb 15 16:22:57 2020, in response to Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Feb 15 16:16:57 2020. The November cut on the B also has the effect of ending Brighton service to/from 6th Avenue earlier.Though I prefer Broadway-Brighton anyway and that's full-time. |
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| (1538315) | |
Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Feb 15 16:50:13 2020, in response to Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Feb 15 16:22:34 2020. I recall the only time I could reliably see a G on the weekend was the Christmas season when they reluctantly conceded that Woodhaven Blvd needed 2 trains. |
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| (1538317) | |
Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Feb 15 16:56:51 2020, in response to Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut, posted by randyo on Sat Feb 15 16:13:29 2020. I remember when I worked the Brighton D in the mid '80's, the last express out of Brighton was at 7:55 PM with the next interval being a 7:57 PM first local from STL. The last M left STL at 7:49. |
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| (1538323) | |
Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Feb 15 17:59:41 2020, in response to Brighton Express B Hours Cut, posted by SLRT on Sat Feb 15 13:04:28 2020. For what it's worth the GTFS schedule shows something slightly different.for 11/13/19: BB departures: 05:58:00 to 21:56:30 BB arrivals: 06:46:00 to 23:09:00 However for 2/19/20 it will be: BB departures: 05:58:00 to 20:58:00 BB arrivals: 06:46:00 to 22:16:30 GTFS schedule releases were: 10/2/19; 12/31/19 and 1/9/20. The 10/2/19 release was used for the 11/13/19 schedule and the 1/9/20 release was used for the 2/19/20 schedule. for 1/8/20 the GTFS gave: BB departures: 05:58:00 to 20:58:30 BB arrivals: 06:46:00 to 22:16:30 It looks like the service change was a New Year's gift from the MTA. |
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| (1538328) | |
Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Feb 15 20:26:53 2020, in response to Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut, posted by SLRT on Sat Feb 15 16:22:57 2020. The Broadway-Brighton pattern has always been very popular, so much so that when the Chrystie St. connection first opened, five rush hour QB trains were included. For some reason, Brighton local service went up Nassau St. instead of Broadway, and Brighton expresses went up 6th Ave. Broadway riders felt shafted. |
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| (1538335) | |
Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Feb 15 21:09:23 2020, in response to Brighton Express B Hours Cut, posted by SLRT on Sat Feb 15 13:04:28 2020. The fact is, pure and simple, that "B" service has been cut by one hour in each direction. |
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| (1538337) | |
Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Feb 15 21:51:49 2020, in response to Brighton Express B Hours Cut, posted by SLRT on Sat Feb 15 13:04:28 2020. that's a lot of fewer trains. Means some jobs were cut too and newer T/O's and C/R's won't move up.But I can only imagine the ridership on N/B Bravo's leaving Brighton between 9p and 10p. Had to be low. |
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| (1538344) | |
Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Sun Feb 16 00:22:09 2020, in response to Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Feb 15 16:22:34 2020. I think I read that it was cut back to Court Square 51 out of 52 weekends during the last year that it supposedly ran to Forest Hills weekends. And that the weekend jobs assigned via the "pick" actually actually had the G running only to Court Square, so that the one weekend it followed the published schedule of running to Forest Hills, they had to call in extra workers to do it. |
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| (1538349) | |
Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut |
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Posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Sun Feb 16 03:59:44 2020, in response to Brighton Express B Hours Cut, posted by SLRT on Sat Feb 15 13:04:28 2020. I noticed this too. I figured that it had to do with all the service advisories of B service ending early. Likewise, from about this time, weekday northbound 4th Av. express service ends way earlier. I think this is reflected in the N schedule but for some reason, last I saw, not reflected in the D schedule. |
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| (1538355) | |
Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Feb 16 08:04:55 2020, in response to Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Feb 15 21:51:49 2020. It's been argued that CPW's needs were weighed as much as or more than Brighton's. That Brighton got more service was more an accidental. For example, if the B did not continue north past Columbus Circle, the added runs would probably not have happened to begin with.I've been on some of the "bonus" runs in question Brooklyn bound. Definitely along 6 Ave the trains were useful though not SRO. And I would say they weren't really "empty" until the Kings Hwy area of the Brighton. Don't know what it was like northbound along CPW, which as I've said was probably the area of focus. |
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| (1538356) | |
Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Feb 16 08:27:44 2020, in response to Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut, posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Sun Feb 16 03:59:44 2020. I wonder if the schedule changes relevant to the SAS indirectly played into it. IIRC the Q got a boost in frequency and that leaves less room for other trains, though not sure if the evening hours in question are particularly affected. |
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| (1538357) | |
Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut |
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Posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Sun Feb 16 08:28:21 2020, in response to Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Feb 16 08:04:55 2020. I think that CPW needed more service than Brighton is a myth. Years ago, I looked at the figures for customers entering the stations. The Brighton stations had much more than CPW. |
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| (1538358) | |
Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Feb 16 08:32:12 2020, in response to Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut, posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Sun Feb 16 08:28:21 2020. I don't doubt you, but it wouldn't surprise me if CPW was the determining factor when the 2008 improvements were done. Also, what were the frequencies for the C as compared to the Q? |
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| (1538369) | |
Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut |
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Posted by Brightonr68 on Sun Feb 16 11:15:32 2020, in response to Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Feb 16 08:04:55 2020. Trains being “empty” until kings highway is not such a bad thing considering kh is the 2nd stop and there Is also the q. Tell m which train is full two steps down the line |
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| (1538372) | |
Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut |
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Posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Sun Feb 16 11:33:19 2020, in response to Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Feb 16 08:32:12 2020. I have not compared the C and Q frequencies critically, but my feeling is that the Q runs more frequently. I wonder, though, how much CPW really weighed into the 2008 decision making....I may well be wrong, but with such an attraction as the Museum of Natural History on CPW, I would think it would be justified running the B on weekends too. Apparently, demand on CPW is neither there on weekends nor so strong on weekdays as to warrant higher frequencies of C trains. |
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| (1538405) | |
Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Feb 16 17:29:23 2020, in response to Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Feb 16 08:04:55 2020. It’s interesting that with various bugaboos over the years about declining ridership that pre Chrystie, CPW evening and midnight service was able to be provided by 3 car trains of R-1/9s running on the AA lcl with no other service being provided yet a service with 8 car trains of 60 footers was considered problematic. Unlike pre and immediately post Chrystie, service when shorter trains were operated, current service is operated with predominantly maximum length trains 24/7 so there should be no problems with overcrowding. If there is a crowding problem, then obviously the NYCT is not doing is bad as the agency claims. |
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| (1538544) | |
Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut |
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Posted by zac on Mon Feb 17 17:31:44 2020, in response to Re: Brighton Express B Hours Cut, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Feb 16 08:27:44 2020. I think that boost in frequency was cut back again on eves and weekends when the M runs up to 96th/2nd. Every 10 minutes on weekends was increase to every 8 when 2nd Ave opened, but now it appears to be every 10 again. Today being President's Day, every 10 was not enough in any case. People still had to go to work. |
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