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| (1536160) | |
Gimbels Passageway agsin |
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Posted by rbseabeach on Tue Jan 21 09:01:23 2020 With the recently announced opening of a new passageway @ 42nd & 6th Avenue, the expansion of Penn Station west under 8th Avenue the new passageway under Dey Street, the increased congestion due to Uber, Lyft, Bike lanes and pedestrian Plazas there is no time like the present to re open this important passageway.Also the passageway under 6th Ave from 32nd to 42nd should be re opened as well. When I am driving west on 39th Street from 5th Avenue and I need to make a right turn on 6th Avenue, I usually have to wait three light cycles to do so. It is even worse during the holidays. With record tourists and the construction boom continuing, the Gimbels passageway is a necessity. To reduce congestion on the sidewalks NYC installed the pedestrian plazas. THere is so much congestions on the roads, that congestion pricing passed. Let's get these passageways open 42nd Street has the 7, the shuttle and passageways. 14th Street has the L and passageways. the missign link on 34th Street is the Gimbels passageway. |
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| (1536163) | |
Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin |
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Posted by qveensboro_plaza on Tue Jan 21 09:34:28 2020, in response to Gimbels Passageway agsin, posted by rbseabeach on Tue Jan 21 09:01:23 2020. I don't know how successful the "TurnStyle" retail area has been, in the 57-58 Street mezzanine of 59th-Columbus Circle, but it looks appealing and seems to have a good amount of foot traffic.The concept could be adapted for the closed Sixth Ave concourse between 35-40 Streets. Would probably not have quite the same volume of shoppers, but if the 38th Street entrance was restored, it might become a reasonable retail alternative, as well as a good way to go in bad weather. As for the Gimbels passage, I recall it as being narrower than the typical IND concourse, but I think it also had some retail stores along the building side, as well as entry to Gimbels Basement. It was a pretty gloomy place in its last years, but I would imagine it could be renovated nicely. Especially if Vornado plans to build on the Hotel Pennsylvania site. |
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Re: Gimbels Passageway again |
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Posted by Dan on Tue Jan 21 10:29:44 2020, in response to Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin, posted by qveensboro_plaza on Tue Jan 21 09:34:28 2020. I only passed through it once on a very cold day in 1978 on my way to a job interview. The long passageway was dank and narrow and had a dangerous reputation back then. A transit cop was stationed in the middle of the passageway. |
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| (1536167) | |
Re: Gimbels Passageway again |
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Posted by qveensboro_plaza on Tue Jan 21 11:11:13 2020, in response to Re: Gimbels Passageway again, posted by Dan on Tue Jan 21 10:29:44 2020. You are fight -- it was pretty horrible. But back in 1978 the same could be said for almost any place in the subway system. |
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| (1536168) | |
Re: Gimbels Passageway again |
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Posted by qveensboro_plaza on Tue Jan 21 11:11:30 2020, in response to Re: Gimbels Passageway again, posted by Dan on Tue Jan 21 10:29:44 2020. You are right -- it was pretty horrible. But back in 1978 the same could be said for almost any place in the subway system. |
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| (1536170) | |
Re: Gimbels Passageway again |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jan 21 11:41:06 2020, in response to Re: Gimbels Passageway again, posted by qveensboro_plaza on Tue Jan 21 11:11:13 2020. But back in 1978 the same could be said for almost any place in the subway system.No. There were many, many very safe places in the subway system even then. |
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| (1536172) | |
Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 21 12:35:30 2020, in response to Gimbels Passageway agsin, posted by rbseabeach on Tue Jan 21 09:01:23 2020. Well, we all already know this but I may as well say it again for those who as know it not:The Gimbles tunnel is NOT under the sidewalk, and it is NOT on city property. It is in the VAULT SPACE that belongs to the hotel and to the store (whatever store is in there now). I used to use it daily, twice daily in fact, but that does not make it any more desirable. It was built without city approbation all on privately owned property. Yes there is a sidewalk, but technically it is not under the sidewalk. It is on private property. Most buildings are set back from their property line a little so that they have a vault space under the sidewalk. There are still many trap doors with stairs leading to the basements of stores, and there are street elevators that poke up through the sidewalk from the vault. Mostly it was put there to deliver and hold coal. So yes, that is why the Gimbles Tunnel looks like a coal bin. To open it would require the contrivance of the property owner (Vorando) which would happen very easily if they were given adequate financial compensation for so to do. Patrol, exit and safetry would be big issues. Law requires that a space must be within 75' of an exit.When the hotel had shops down there and Gimbles basement was open this was a gimme. Now not so much. I'd not expect it to be opened again in my lifetime, but then I could be wrong. Do any of you think I am ever wrong? I'd put up a bag of galleons to a box of donuts that it will not open, but I have no galleons, and do not like stale donuts. |
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| (1536173) | |
Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jan 21 13:06:57 2020, in response to Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 21 12:35:30 2020. You are probably right that it won't reopen in your lifetime.There are a fair number of out-of-fare control passageways on private property, as well as other amenities such as escalators. Usually they get built because a property developer gets a favorable building variance in return for the passageway or other amenity. This could happen in conjunction with replacement of the Hotel Pennsylvania, which has been forecast for at least 20 years. Two good examples are the connections between 7/49th and 6/47-50th and from 6/40th to 6/39th. |
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| (1536174) | |
Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin |
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Posted by Dan on Tue Jan 21 16:02:30 2020, in response to Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin, posted by AlM on Tue Jan 21 13:06:57 2020. The Gimbels Passageway appears to be too narrow by today's standards to ever be re-opened. |
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| (1536175) | |
Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Jan 21 16:06:53 2020, in response to Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin, posted by AlM on Tue Jan 21 13:06:57 2020. I just don't see it reopening absent some property deal. Too narrow, no ADA access, too much crime risk. |
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| (1536183) | |
Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Jan 21 17:30:40 2020, in response to Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 21 12:35:30 2020. It will go the way of the Rochester, NY subway. It is abandoned and when it starts to cave in, they'll fill it in. |
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| (1536184) | |
Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 21 17:35:10 2020, in response to Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin, posted by Joe V on Tue Jan 21 17:30:40 2020. TNHIW. If it really is in a sidewalk vault, it is part of the buildings basement and is structurally maintained along with the rest of it. |
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| (1536185) | |
Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Jan 21 17:38:28 2020, in response to Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 21 17:35:10 2020. I thought they had a cave in in part of it. |
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| (1536218) | |
Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Jan 22 07:00:24 2020, in response to Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin, posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Jan 21 16:06:53 2020. The ADA compliance thing is probably the least of it. |
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| (1536221) | |
Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Jan 22 09:57:25 2020, in response to Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin, posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Jan 21 16:06:53 2020. There would be quite a bit of expense. But the crime risk can be addressed. No one says the 49th street passageway has too much crime risk. |
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| (1536224) | |
Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Jan 22 10:23:21 2020, in response to Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin, posted by Dan on Tue Jan 21 16:02:30 2020. Whale, if it could be done, it would have to intrude further into the building's property, I doubt it could be extended north what with utilities and such under the sidewalk.IF there is to be a new PNY-South, it could be provided, say under 31st street Or it could be elevated with moving walkways. |
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| (1536225) | |
Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Jan 22 10:26:28 2020, in response to Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin, posted by Joe V on Tue Jan 21 17:38:28 2020. Nah LION has herd no such thing. Yes the space is maintained by the respective building owners. They could well be using it for storage space. after all it is their property. When I worked at 34th street, we did use that space, ditto the Franciscans on 31st street. |
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| (1536229) | |
Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Wed Jan 22 10:38:26 2020, in response to Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 21 12:35:30 2020. Law requires that a space must be within 75' of an exit.Huh? Should that read 750'? No subway platform has exits no more than the length of an R46 car apart. |
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| (1536230) | |
Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin |
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Posted by rbseabeach on Wed Jan 22 10:39:13 2020, in response to Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 21 12:35:30 2020. Thank you for the information! |
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| (1536248) | |
Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin |
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Posted by MTA T on Wed Jan 22 13:55:29 2020, in response to Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin, posted by 3-9 on Wed Jan 22 07:00:24 2020. The passage will likely be reconstructed, at least that is what I saw on an EIS about Vornado's redevelopment of the area in question. |
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| (1536256) | |
Re: Gimbels Passageway again |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Wed Jan 22 14:42:38 2020, in response to Re: Gimbels Passageway again, posted by qveensboro_plaza on Tue Jan 21 11:11:13 2020. The Gimbels Passageway always had a distinct "basement" feel to it (which most of the subway did not and does not). I think I passed through it about a dozen times. In the middle there was a door that looked like it might be an entrance to the Gimbels store, but it was marked as an emergency exit only, or maybe Authorized Personnel only. |
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| (1536257) | |
Re: Gimbels Passageway again |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Jan 22 14:44:54 2020, in response to Re: Gimbels Passageway again, posted by Dyre Dan on Wed Jan 22 14:42:38 2020. Yeah, even the current 49th street passage has something of a basement feel. Though the basement of a modern office building, not the basement of a department store. |
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| (1536268) | |
Re: Gimbels Passageway again |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Jan 22 15:44:21 2020, in response to Re: Gimbels Passageway again, posted by Dyre Dan on Wed Jan 22 14:42:38 2020. There was an entrance into Gimbels from that passageway. There also were window displays. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1536317) | |
Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Jan 22 19:53:12 2020, in response to Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin, posted by qveensboro_plaza on Tue Jan 21 09:34:28 2020. I was there just yesterday- the Starbucks store/kiosk was busy enough!!! |
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| (1536318) | |
Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Jan 22 19:56:34 2020, in response to Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin, posted by AlM on Tue Jan 21 13:06:57 2020. Woolworth's in Flushing (the 1961-62 building) also had an entrance to the subway, outside fare control. It was already permanently closed by the time I started to remember things (anything, LOL) in 1972-73.K mart on Astor/8th Street STILL has a working basement access to the downtown side of the Astor Place Station. |
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| (1536358) | |
Re: Gimbels Passageway again |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Jan 23 00:15:07 2020, in response to Re: Gimbels Passageway again, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Jan 22 15:44:21 2020. correct. In past times, most major department stores had 'bargain basements' Or at least used those areas for sale merchandise. I do remember the OOS display windows as I often used the passageway between the 6th Ave IND to from Penn. Sure washot down there in summer. Also my first memory of a homeless bag lady who frequented that basement doorway. |
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| (1536361) | |
Re: Gimbels Passageway again |
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Posted by Express Rider on Thu Jan 23 01:26:13 2020, in response to Re: Gimbels Passageway again, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Jan 23 00:15:07 2020. I used that passageway from the late 60's to sometime 1971-72. Usually when I was returning from ERA NY Div meetings, or coming back from hearing music somewhere; catching a 6th ave. train at W4 if it came before an A or an E, taking it to 34th, then walking the Gimbels passageway to Penn to take the LIRR back home.Or, coming into the city during the day on the LIRR, and then using the passageway to get to 6th ave for the IND. I remember it yes, as being narrow, but also IIRC being pretty well lit by the florescent lights hanging from the ceiling. The walls were painted some kind of light institutional green color weren't they? |
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Re: Gimbels Passageway again |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Jan 23 07:01:18 2020, in response to Re: Gimbels Passageway again, posted by Express Rider on Thu Jan 23 01:26:13 2020. Philadelphia had its underground treasures. Passegeway |
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Re: Gimbels Passageway again |
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Posted by Express Rider on Thu Jan 23 14:52:48 2020, in response to Re: Gimbels Passageway again, posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Jan 23 07:01:18 2020. Thank you for this link!Very interesting article! Don't know when I'll get to Philadelphia* but walking the passageway is now on my to do list. *Was there during the mid 60s on a family trip. We rode the Market-Frankford line but only from 8th St. to 13th St., where the Holiday Inn was. |
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| (1536466) | |
Re: Gimbels Passageway again |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Jan 23 19:12:27 2020, in response to Re: Gimbels Passageway again, posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Jan 23 07:01:18 2020. Indeed it was convenient especially during inclement weather. This sort of convenience is a hallmark of better cities IMHO. Chicago has a modern 'Pedway' linking various buildings including the Metra Electric/South Shore Station, to the State St and Dearcorn subways. |
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| (1536507) | |
Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Jan 24 10:49:25 2020, in response to Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin, posted by Dyre Dan on Wed Jan 22 10:38:26 2020. Fire code specifies 75' and 20' if on a dead end corridor. The subway (I suppose) is neither a closed room nor a building. Gut the Gimbelsway is both. |
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Re: Gimbels Passageway again |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Jan 24 11:09:03 2020, in response to Re: Gimbels Passageway again, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Jan 23 00:15:07 2020. There was also a luggage shop in the hotel that had an access to the tunnel, and this could have counted as an exit. |
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Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jan 24 19:09:11 2020, in response to Re: Gimbels Passageway agsin, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Jan 24 10:49:25 2020. I think the whole Gimbels passageway issue won't go anywhere. They isn't even movement afoot to open the IND passageway from 34th to 42nd along 6th Avenue, which is all MTA jurisdiction. |
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