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(1530007)

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1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by El-Train on Thu Nov 14 08:42:29 2019

Is this a record for the NYC subway, or have other lines had solid runs longer than that?

Neither of these lines has seen a NTT train in (regular) service yet, and are still chock full of the R62/R68's that were originally built for them which is impressive.

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(1530009)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by zac on Thu Nov 14 09:14:21 2019, in response to 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by El-Train on Thu Nov 14 08:42:29 2019.

Yes, I remember riding an R68 when it was new on the D on the Brighton line long before the swap with the B.

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(1530012)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by 3-9 on Thu Nov 14 09:20:36 2019, in response to 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by El-Train on Thu Nov 14 08:42:29 2019.

Didn't the D go with R-1-9's for at least 3 decades until the R-32 came out?

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(1530013)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by italianguyinsi on Thu Nov 14 09:28:13 2019, in response to 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by El-Train on Thu Nov 14 08:42:29 2019.

(F) running 46s since 1975, 46+ years.

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(1530019)

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[PHOTO] Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Nov 14 11:23:06 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by zac on Thu Nov 14 09:14:21 2019.

#2502 testing on Sea Beach Line (March 1986)
image host

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(1530021)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu Nov 14 11:34:02 2019, in response to 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by El-Train on Thu Nov 14 08:42:29 2019.

The 3 originally ran R-62As, now runs R-62s. Small distinction, but a distinction nonetheless.

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(1530030)

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Re: [PHOTO] Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Nov 14 13:37:34 2019, in response to [PHOTO] Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Nov 14 11:23:06 2019.

The graffiti 80's.

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(1530031)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Nov 14 13:38:11 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by italianguyinsi on Thu Nov 14 09:28:13 2019.

Except that since 2009, the F has not been exclusively R46, which it was from the late 1980s...

In fact, from early 2009 until the SAS opened, the F was by far mostly R160, though there'd be an occasional R46. Now in my casual observation, it's about 60% R160, 40% R46.

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(1530054)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by randyo on Thu Nov 14 16:55:06 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu Nov 14 11:34:02 2019.

If you are going to nitpick about that, then you would have to make the same distinction between the various contracts that comprised the R-1 through 9 series cars and all their subdivisions.

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(1530058)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by El-Train on Thu Nov 14 18:06:23 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Nov 14 13:38:11 2019.

Wasn't there the occasional GOH R32 mixed in there too?

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(1530060)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by Edwards! on Thu Nov 14 18:14:34 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Nov 14 13:38:11 2019.

Also, the F ran a number of R32s and even 42s at one point.

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(1530061)

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Re: [PHOTO] Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Nov 14 18:51:36 2019, in response to [PHOTO] Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Nov 14 11:23:06 2019.

A single car. It looks so lonely.

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(1530067)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Nov 14 19:13:20 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by 3-9 on Thu Nov 14 09:20:36 2019.

27 years, to be exact.

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(1530068)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Nov 14 19:14:28 2019, in response to 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by El-Train on Thu Nov 14 08:42:29 2019.

Lest we forget: the R-10s ruled the Abbot with an iron fist for 29 years.

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(1530074)

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Re: [PHOTO] Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Nov 14 19:28:14 2019, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Nov 14 18:51:36 2019.

A single car. It looks so lonely.

Think of it as a stainless steel interurban, minus the trolley pole. lol

Bill Newkirk

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(1530077)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by R33/r36 mainline on Thu Nov 14 20:04:13 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by El-Train on Thu Nov 14 18:06:23 2019.

Yep. Used to love catching those 32 F trains when I was in high school.

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(1530078)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by R33/r36 mainline on Thu Nov 14 20:05:12 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by italianguyinsi on Thu Nov 14 09:28:13 2019.

Yep. Would be cool if Jamaica kept the 46s for their entire service life.

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(1530079)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by R33/r36 mainline on Thu Nov 14 20:08:54 2019, in response to 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by El-Train on Thu Nov 14 08:42:29 2019.

Haven't the 32s been on the C line for quite some time, since before GOH?

42s in the Eastern Div gotta up there as well.

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(1530080)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by R33/r36 mainline on Thu Nov 14 20:10:46 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by R33/r36 mainline on Thu Nov 14 20:08:54 2019.

Also R33/36 WF? Mid 1960s until 2003?

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(1530086)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by randyo on Thu Nov 14 22:05:14 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Nov 14 19:14:28 2019.

Not quite. Donít forget that by 1969, a few trains of R-42s made it to the A line followed a few years later by some R-44s. The assignment of the R-42s and 44s to the A freed up some R-10s to the CC line to begin displacing the remaining R-1/9s of various contracts.

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(1530088)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by italianguyinsi on Thu Nov 14 22:30:58 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by El-Train on Thu Nov 14 18:06:23 2019.

also in 1986/87, 68s were appearing on the (F). That didn't last long.

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(1530106)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Nov 15 07:44:42 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by El-Train on Thu Nov 14 18:06:23 2019.

Only after 2001 or so.

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(1530107)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Nov 15 07:47:46 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by Edwards! on Thu Nov 14 18:14:34 2019.

In my memory, I only saw R32s on the F after the V came online in late 2001, and R42s on there in 2009-2010.

I'm only speaking of the post GOH era. I'm fully aware that Slants and 42s ran on the F in the early 1970s. In fact, I clearly remember them on the E and F from back then.

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(1530127)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by Edwards! on Fri Nov 15 13:24:03 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Nov 15 07:47:46 2019.

Yeah.
The 32s were in Queens after the 44s were removed.. basically in GG/N/R services.
The E/F used them when the R46 cars were both car classes were being rebuilt.

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(1530128)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by Edwards! on Fri Nov 15 13:29:12 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by italianguyinsi on Thu Nov 14 22:30:58 2019.

68s ran on the F to test the propulsion systems.

They would never be assigned there for service.

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(1530153)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by Joe V on Fri Nov 15 19:04:56 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by Edwards! on Fri Nov 15 13:24:03 2019.

When the R32 took over the E while the R46's went to Hornell, the R46's never came back to the E. It was found Queen Blvd performance improved with 40 sets of doors.

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(1530182)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Nov 16 10:08:44 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by randyo on Thu Nov 14 22:05:14 2019.

OK. But they were still there in sufficient numbers.

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(1530183)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Nov 16 10:10:14 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by R33/r36 mainline on Thu Nov 14 20:10:46 2019.

They definitely rank up there. For years that was the only IRT line that ran solid consists. Over on the mainlines, everything and anything were thrown together.

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(1530200)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by Edwards! on Sat Nov 16 12:07:18 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by Joe V on Fri Nov 15 19:04:56 2019.

The First GOH R46 I ever saw was a E train at Jamaica Center.

The GOH R32S were returning, hitting G R N lines.
The R/G traded equipment with the E.
R46 cars took over the R and G.
F remained pretty much a mixed bag of whatever Jamaica had available... usually R46/32, since that's what Jamaica wanted.
390 cars heading for the east plus 98 R40m plus 40 or so R40.

The east pretty much got all the latest of the 1960s type smee cars.

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(1530203)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by Joe V on Sat Nov 16 12:19:59 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by Edwards! on Sat Nov 16 12:07:18 2019.

The E went to R32's in the late 1980's and stayed that way for 20 years. Few R46's ran on it in the 1990's and 2000'.

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(1530207)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Nov 16 13:03:08 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by Edwards! on Sat Nov 16 12:07:18 2019.

I often wonder how many people knew the story behind 4572-4573, The French Connection cars.

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(1530209)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by Bill Newkirk on Sat Nov 16 13:42:01 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Nov 16 13:03:08 2019.

I often wonder how many people knew the story behind 4572-4573, The French Connection cars.

The average Joe ? .... No

The foamer or railfan......Yes

Bill Newkirk


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(1530210)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by MainR3664 on Sat Nov 16 14:29:01 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sat Nov 16 13:42:01 2019.

That's what I'd think. WE love this information. Non railfans couldn't give a s***.

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(1530211)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by MainR3664 on Sat Nov 16 14:31:32 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by Joe V on Fri Nov 15 19:04:56 2019.

As far as I recall, the E stayed all R32 until the R160s came in. ONCE, in 1999, I rode an R46 E from WTC to West 4th. I guess there was some issue that day that they had no choice but to run an R46.

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(1530214)

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Mixed Trains on the IRT - When Did it Start?

Posted by Bzuck on Sat Nov 16 16:21:05 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Nov 16 10:10:14 2019.

I have a question regarding mixing trains on the mainline. When did it start? The first mainline new cars were the R17 which initially must have run in solid trains on the #6. The next set of new mainline equipment was the R21/22 which initially ran on the west side. Again they must have been in solid trains back than. Than the married pairs came R26/28/29/33. When they came on line in the early 60ís were they mixed with the R17/21/22, or did they run separately? I know when the R12/14/15 came to the mainline they had to be mixed since they couldn't be used in the conductor position. Is that when the mixing started, or was it earlier?

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(1530219)

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Re: Mixed Trains on the IRT - When Did it Start?

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Nov 16 17:57:44 2019, in response to Mixed Trains on the IRT - When Did it Start?, posted by Bzuck on Sat Nov 16 16:21:05 2019.

IIRC, it started as soon as it was needed since the cars were designed to run together. That was long before the R-12/14s & 15s came from Flushing. Those cars really stood out in those mixed consists with their different car design.
As far as a specific date that car orders became mixed in revenue service (as in the first train), I couldn't say & would be suprised if anyone else could.

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(1530234)

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Re: Mixed Trains on the IRT - When Did it Start?

Posted by Bill Newkirk on Sat Nov 16 19:53:01 2019, in response to Re: Mixed Trains on the IRT - When Did it Start?, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Nov 16 17:57:44 2019.

IRC, it started as soon as it was needed since the cars were designed to run together. That was long before the R-12/14s & 15s came from Flushing. Those cars really stood out in those mixed consists with their different car design.

Does this stand out enough ? R-12 Museum Car #5760 before preservation.
image host

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(1530276)

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Re: Mixed Trains on the IRT - When Did it Start?

Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Nov 17 10:21:51 2019, in response to Re: Mixed Trains on the IRT - When Did it Start?, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sat Nov 16 19:53:01 2019.

New desktop photo... Thanks


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(1530303)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by Edwards! on Sun Nov 17 15:53:15 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by MainR3664 on Sat Nov 16 14:31:32 2019.

Some R40m/42s were transferred to Jamaica, replacing scrapped R32s.
These cars were operating along All Queens Blvd services, until completely withdrawn by R160 cars.



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(1530306)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sun Nov 17 17:19:56 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by MainR3664 on Sat Nov 16 14:31:32 2019.

I also rode an R-46 E during a visit in earlier July 1999. Was boarding at Queens Plaza (transferring from the Q23 that I took from the Holiday Inn Crown Plaza by LGA that I was staying at). By that time, I had discovered nycsubway.org and was reading SubTalk (though didn't have a handle ywt), so I had a fairly good idea of what equipment generally ran on certain lines. I was coming down the stairs at QP, when the R-46 pulled in on the southbound ex[press track. I assumed it was an F, so I continued down leisurely. As I got closer, and as the train slowed, I saw on the sign "E to WORLD TRADE CTR". Oops. I hastened my step, though I didn't need to worry, we actually sat in the station for a few minutes. Lesson learned.

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(1530310)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by Joe V on Sun Nov 17 18:16:07 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by Edwards! on Sun Nov 17 15:53:15 2019.

That was due to R32 AC issues, and those cars were soon scrapped, so put up with their inferior MDBF for a short while.

A friend of mine rode an R42 on the E. Unlike an R32, he said they "cried", they ran miserable, and they looked miserable.

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(1530315)

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Re: Mixed Trains on the IRT - When Did it Start?

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Nov 17 18:48:02 2019, in response to Re: Mixed Trains on the IRT - When Did it Start?, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sat Nov 16 19:53:01 2019.

Nice!!

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(1530349)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Nov 18 10:18:50 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by Joe V on Sun Nov 17 18:16:07 2019.

I agree. Those R42s on the Queens Blvd line in early 2010 were obviously shot to hell.

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(1530357)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Mon Nov 18 12:19:19 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by Joe V on Sun Nov 17 18:16:07 2019.

I believe it had to do with who did the GOH. The ones remaining are ALL Morrison Knudsen rebuilt. All of the 207th/CIY rebuilds were the ones who met the scrap heap, along with the worst of the MK rebuilds.

Source: nycsubway.org

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(1530359)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by El-Train on Mon Nov 18 12:47:55 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by Joe V on Sun Nov 17 18:16:07 2019.

I remember that period when R40M/R42's made their farewell run on the lettered lines circa 2009/2010. Apart from being shocking to see them on lines where they hadn't run in decades, they did indeed look like they needed to be taken out of their misery.

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(1530362)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 18 12:59:50 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Mon Nov 18 12:19:19 2019.

I think it was the MK ones that went to Jamaica Yard. The CIY ones went directly from ENY to scrap.

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(1530371)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by Edwards! on Mon Nov 18 16:01:21 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 18 12:59:50 2019.

Funny.
The MK cars were mostly operating in J/Z service, while the others were placed on the L and M lines.

When the 160s started arriving, these cars were transferred to the A/C/E/F/R/v lines.

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(1530377)

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Re: Mixed Trains on the IRT - When Did it Start?

Posted by randyo on Mon Nov 18 16:38:37 2019, in response to Mixed Trains on the IRT - When Did it Start?, posted by Bzuck on Sat Nov 16 16:21:05 2019.

Initially, when the TR012s. 14s and 5s came to the mainline they were often used at the C/R positions. The problem came in when radio antennas were installed and there was a problem with the antennas interfering with the C/Rs mounting the steps so the 12s and 14s were banned from C/R positions. For some unknown and inane reason the R-15s were also banned despite the fact that they had inside door controls. Subsequently, smaller antennas that didn't interfere with the C/Rsí operation were installed on the 12s, 14s and 15s, but with the exception of the 3 Av el which was 100% 12s and 14s, the IRT Supt chose to leave the ban in place. With regard to the mixing of trains on the mainline, some time in the 1960s, the IRT car equipment dept decided to assign cars to maintenance barns ny electrical manufacturer rather than car type as had been previously done. Thus 240 and Westchester barns were assigned the WH cars and Mosholu, E180 and 239 barns were assigned the GE cars. At the time Livonia was not an inspection barn but only a trouble barn so it had no specific cars assigned to it. The IND and BMT, on the other hand had cars assigned to barns by car type so those divisions ran mixed trains of WH and GE equipment but all the same car type. Why the IRT division operated differently I donít know but thatís the way it was until the early 1980s, when car barn assignments were changed to a more logical system.

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(1530396)

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Re: Mixed Trains on the IRT - When Did it Start?

Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Mon Nov 18 20:09:09 2019, in response to Re: Mixed Trains on the IRT - When Did it Start?, posted by randyo on Mon Nov 18 16:38:37 2019.

I seem to recall that at some point in the 70s, the 12/14/15s were also not used at lead motors, why was that? The last time I remember riding an R12 or R14 as lead motor was in the summer of 1972 on the 2. I was actually living in Illinois then, but spent the summers with my grandmother in Brooklyn (near the Newlots Av station). When I returned to NY in June 1974, I never saw a 12/14/15 as lead motor. I know later on, whatever issue caused that lead motor ban was apparently worked out and they were used as lead motors again, but that was after I moved to Southern California in the late summer of 1976.

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(1530404)

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Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Nov 18 21:28:01 2019, in response to Re: 1/3/D lines running the same car class(es) for 30+years, posted by El-Train on Mon Nov 18 12:47:55 2019.

I must disagree.

The R40M's looked good right till the end.

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