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| Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash (1529584) | |
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| (1529584) | |
Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash |
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Posted by Dave on Sat Nov 9 19:37:05 2019 Mandatory arbitration. |
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Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Nov 9 20:25:44 2019, in response to Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by Dave on Sat Nov 9 19:37:05 2019. The only other alternative is for travelers to not ride Amtrak.This has been Anderson's game plan all along. |
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Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Nov 9 20:30:59 2019, in response to Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by Dave on Sat Nov 9 19:37:05 2019. See how the lawyers handle that after the next serious crash. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Nov 9 20:47:35 2019, in response to Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by Dave on Sat Nov 9 19:37:05 2019. People will sue anyway if they aren't satisfied with the arbitrator's decision. They'll have lots less chance of prevailing, but some will try anyway. "If you can't argue the facts, argue the law." They can print what they want on the ticket, but that doesn't necessarily make it enforceable. |
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Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Nov 9 21:40:48 2019, in response to Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by Dave on Sat Nov 9 19:37:05 2019. Aren't there limits on what can be included in a "contract of adhesion" such as a rail ticket? Might this clause not be considered "unconscionable" and therefore invalid? |
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Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash |
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Posted by Dave on Sat Nov 9 23:40:55 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Nov 9 21:40:48 2019. Probably not. Have you opened a new charge account lately? They all have mandatory arbitration clauses now. |
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| (1529609) | |
Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Nov 10 00:34:54 2019, in response to Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by Dave on Sat Nov 9 19:37:05 2019. That's not what the article says. More fake news from Politico.Are you upholding the POV in Politico's title because of your being a lawyer? |
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Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Sun Nov 10 05:12:15 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by Dave on Sat Nov 9 23:40:55 2019. Well, arbitrating a purely financial agreement is one thing, a situation that could involve death is something else, or so it would seem. But I'm no lawyer. |
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| (1529623) | |
Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash? |
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Posted by Dave on Sun Nov 10 09:17:50 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash?, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Nov 10 00:34:54 2019. It's exactly what the article says. Technically speaking, arbitration is not a lawsuit. |
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| (1529624) | |
Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash |
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Posted by Dave on Sun Nov 10 09:18:34 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by Dyre Dan on Sun Nov 10 05:12:15 2019. Other forms of transit also have mandatory arbitration clauses. |
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Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash |
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Posted by italianguyinsi on Sun Nov 10 10:03:11 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by Dave on Sun Nov 10 09:18:34 2019. Not the airlines. They are prohibited from doing so. |
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| (1529633) | |
Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Nov 10 11:12:00 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by Dave on Sun Nov 10 09:18:34 2019. Would you be able to sue if the accident were due to negligence? |
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| (1529639) | |
Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Nov 10 11:42:08 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Nov 9 20:47:35 2019. Yes, and the law does not stop people from suing.Certain judges like to say that certain groups of people do not have "standing" in certain things, though; but there's nothing in the Constitution that validates that. |
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| (1529643) | |
Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Nov 10 12:13:35 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash?, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Nov 10 11:42:08 2019. You are an ignorant fool. |
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| (1529645) | |
Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash |
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Posted by Dave on Sun Nov 10 12:17:58 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by Easy on Sun Nov 10 11:12:00 2019. No. And that's one reason why I expect Congress to hold hearings about this. |
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| (1529646) | |
Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash |
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Posted by Dave on Sun Nov 10 12:24:01 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Nov 9 20:47:35 2019. Read up on the Federal Arbitration Act, which has been repeatedly upheld as constitutional and enforceable by SCOTUS. There are a few exceptions where the FAA does not apply. |
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| (1529651) | |
Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Nov 10 13:46:40 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by Dave on Sun Nov 10 12:24:01 2019. Is arbitration equally enforceable when the customer hasn't ever signed anything? In contrast, when it comes to investment transactions, where arbitration has long been held to be enforceable, the customer has signed an agreement. |
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| (1529652) | |
Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Nov 10 13:48:10 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by Dave on Sun Nov 10 12:17:58 2019. The House has in fact already passed a bill. |
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| (1529655) | |
Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash |
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Posted by Dave on Sun Nov 10 15:11:21 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by AlM on Sun Nov 10 13:46:40 2019. Oce you buy the ticket you've entered into an enforceable contract. So yes, arbitration is enforceable even though you didn't sign anything. |
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Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash |
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Posted by Dave on Sun Nov 10 15:14:10 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by AlM on Sun Nov 10 13:48:10 2019. Good luck getting that through the Senate. |
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| (1529708) | |
Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Nov 11 01:11:47 2019, in response to Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by Dave on Sat Nov 9 19:37:05 2019. I am not a lawyer despite having taken a few law courses but AFAIK, a person can’t legally sign away his/her constitutional rights regardless of what they sign making such agreements unenforceable. |
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Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Mon Nov 11 09:38:43 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by Dave on Sun Nov 10 12:17:58 2019. Since Amtrak is government-owned, could Congress (or even the administration) force it to drop the forced-arbitration clause even if private businesses are still allowed to have such provisions? |
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| (1529731) | |
Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Nov 11 10:05:37 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by Dyre Dan on Mon Nov 11 09:38:43 2019. LOL! Good luck! |
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| (1529740) | |
Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Nov 11 10:59:41 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by Dyre Dan on Mon Nov 11 09:38:43 2019. It was far better when governments could not be sued.But then you get so much SSTT coming from govts these days that it seems necessary. ROAR |
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Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Nov 11 11:00:18 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Nov 10 12:13:35 2019. Ditto |
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| (1529750) | |
Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Nov 11 11:40:23 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by Dave on Sun Nov 10 15:14:10 2019. Agreed. |
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| (1529760) | |
Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash |
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Posted by Dave on Mon Nov 11 13:20:09 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by randyo on Mon Nov 11 01:11:47 2019. a person can’t legally sign away his/her constitutional rights regardless of what they signYes they can. Check out AT&T v. Concepcion, where SCOTUS told corporations that they could write into the fine print of most any contract, language that takes away a person’s constitutional right to trial by jury. |
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| (1529763) | |
Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash |
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Posted by pragmatist on Mon Nov 11 13:30:31 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by Dave on Mon Nov 11 13:20:09 2019. Simpler. Everyday people temporarily waive their right against self incrimination. Jails are full of people who have confessed. |
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Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Mon Nov 11 14:43:27 2019, in response to Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by Dave on Sat Nov 9 19:37:05 2019. Good, what do people expect for their nickle?Amtrak usually has to pay even when it isn't their fault. This is why charters and other special trains have been cut. The liability risk isn't worth it. |
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| (1529794) | |
Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 11 18:56:42 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by Dave on Mon Nov 11 13:20:09 2019. Whe deaths and ijuries are involved, especially with negligence, Amtrak will still get sued and they will lose. |
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| (1529846) | |
Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Tue Nov 12 09:10:42 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by AlM on Sun Nov 10 13:46:40 2019. Everything you do has an arbitration clause. |
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| (1529847) | |
Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash? |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Tue Nov 12 09:11:13 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash?, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Nov 11 11:00:18 2019. +1That means you win and spider-pig was fooled out. |
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| (1529850) | |
Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash? |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Tue Nov 12 09:17:22 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash?, posted by Dave on Sun Nov 10 09:17:50 2019. That is the stupidest use of semantics ever. Does that mean it's not enforcable, and there's no lawyers or judges deciding the...lets see since it's not technically a "case", and it's not "at bar"...matter at the conference table, that it's not enforceable nor ever final?Or is the technical point worthless in reality other than that it's not going to be reported in Westlaw? |
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Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Tue Nov 12 09:19:26 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by pragmatist on Mon Nov 11 13:30:31 2019. ehhh....that's because they were stupid enough to plead guilty versus "confessing". My Criminal Law prof. mentioned this and said it's not always a done deal. |
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Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Tue Nov 12 09:20:50 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by Jersey Mike on Mon Nov 11 14:43:27 2019. That's why healthcare needs to be nationalized.If a federal railroad is going to be stingy and not help you out in an accident, I'm sure a federal hospital is going to be much kinder. |
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Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash |
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Posted by pragmatist on Tue Nov 12 09:31:40 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Tue Nov 12 09:19:26 2019. There are plenty of people convicted at trial based on their statements. That is separate from guilty pleas... |
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Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash? |
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Posted by Dave on Tue Nov 12 09:54:26 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash?, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Tue Nov 12 09:17:22 2019. No, it's not semantics. Arbitrations are not lawsuits. The arbitrators are not judges. Depending upon the state and the type of arbitration forum, lawyers are not required to argue their case.In the losing party refuses to honor the arbitration award then the prevailing party needs to file a lawsuit in a court of law to enforce the award. |
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Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Nov 12 10:15:25 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 11 18:56:42 2019. What the heck... do these people think they will live forever.ROAR |
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Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Nov 12 10:24:38 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by pragmatist on Tue Nov 12 09:31:40 2019. As I understand it, a guilty plea stops the trial and they move directly to sentencing.A man (I think) does not have to plea or confess, he might simply tell them to prove their case. I'd like to hear some corrections on my thinking. How many kinds of pleas are there, and does a man really need to make a plea? ROARING |
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Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Nov 12 10:36:46 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Nov 12 10:24:38 2019. does a man really need to make a plea?I think nowadays the court will enter a plea of not guilty if the defendant refuses to plead. According to The Crucible, it used to be different. :( |
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Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Nov 12 11:23:34 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Nov 12 10:15:25 2019. So people get on Amtrak specifically to be killed in a train crash by a speeding engineer? |
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Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Nov 12 13:07:09 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash?, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Nov 12 11:23:34 2019. It was supposed to be a line from the taking of Pelham 123.Adjudt your scacasm monitor. ROAR |
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Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash |
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Posted by pragmatist on Tue Nov 12 13:22:32 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Nov 12 10:24:38 2019. If you (or your counsel) refuse to enter a plea, a plea of not guilty will be entered in your behalf...But in reference to a point that someone else made about giving up rights, when you are arrested you have a right to remain silent, and you have a right at trial not to self incriminate. People often waive those rights. Pretty common at Grand Jury to waive in exchange for immunity. People plead not guilty and go to trial and statements and confessions get introduced as evidence if not suppressed. |
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Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash? |
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Posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Wed Nov 13 10:40:25 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak’s new ticket rules won’t let passengers sue in a crash?, posted by Dave on Tue Nov 12 09:54:26 2019. IIRC New York State Civil Practice Laws & Rules (CPLR) Article 51 defines litigation that can follow if the Respondent doesn't satisfy the arbitration award. |
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