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| Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16. (1523882) | |
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| (1523884) | |
Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16. |
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Posted by Allan on Sat Sep 14 15:25:21 2019, in response to Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16., posted by Chicago44 on Sat Sep 14 15:01:59 2019. Since there will be only 2 trains in the AM and 2 on the PM, I wonder if they will do formal above platform signs or use paper signs on platform pillars. |
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| (1523885) | |
Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Sep 14 15:42:27 2019, in response to Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16., posted by Allan on Sat Sep 14 15:25:21 2019. Won't be worth the expense or time. |
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| (1523898) | |
Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sat Sep 14 16:41:56 2019, in response to Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16., posted by Allan on Sat Sep 14 15:25:21 2019. I saw at least 1 paper sign on 14th St/6th Ave on a pillar. I only glanced at it because I was in a rush. |
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| (1523914) | |
new timetable |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sat Sep 14 18:53:04 2019, in response to Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16., posted by Chicago44 on Sat Sep 14 15:01:59 2019. New F timetablehttps://new.mta.info/sites/default/files/2019-09/tfcur.pdf |
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| (1523915) | |
Re: new timetable |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Sep 14 19:00:46 2019, in response to new timetable, posted by italianstallion on Sat Sep 14 18:53:04 2019. Hmm. Saves 7 minutes in the AM but only 1-3 minutes in the PM, plus in the PM the trains are likely to be less precisely punctual. I suspect the AM service will be quite popular with people who can get to the train station at the same time every morning. |
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| (1523916) | |
Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16. |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Sep 14 19:02:18 2019, in response to Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16., posted by Allan on Sat Sep 14 15:25:21 2019. If they (formal above-platform signs) aren't done by this hour, there's a good chance it won't be done. They have a history of doing these things at least a few days before.That being said, diamond F would become the only route bullet not to appear on any "permanent" platform signage if this is the case. But it would appear on the countdown clocks. It wouldn't be the first time the countdown clocks don't perfectly match the information on the platform signage (e.g. W trains in Brooklyn; 2/5 trains to New Lots) but I'm much more interested at the moment in how diamond F gets billed on the main subway map. The new line schedule is up, if you haven't seen it. Am I reading it right? Looks to me like over double the time saved in the morning vs. the afternoon (over 7 minutes vs. about 3 minutes)? |
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| (1523918) | |
Re: new timetable |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Sep 14 19:06:00 2019, in response to Re: new timetable, posted by AlM on Sat Sep 14 19:00:46 2019. Worth noting also that the PM expresses arrive at Kings Hwy the same time as a local. |
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| (1523919) | |
Re: new timetable |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Sep 14 19:07:20 2019, in response to new timetable, posted by italianstallion on Sat Sep 14 18:53:04 2019. You win the race! Sorry I was still typing my other post and didn't see yours. |
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| (1523925) | |
Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16. |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Sep 14 19:44:47 2019, in response to Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16., posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Sep 14 19:02:18 2019. All F trains are local south of Church Avenue, right? So how can two southbound F trains (an express and another one) arrive simultaneously at Kings Highway, at 5:48 PM and again at 6:19 PM? I think the published schedule is not accurate as far a those southbound express trains go. The northbound schedule, showing a seven-minute time savings, is probably the accurate one. |
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| (1523927) | |
Re: new timetable |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sat Sep 14 19:56:55 2019, in response to Re: new timetable, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Sep 14 19:06:00 2019. Yes. As an earlier local. |
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| (1523928) | |
Re: new timetable |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sat Sep 14 19:57:30 2019, in response to Re: new timetable, posted by AlM on Sat Sep 14 19:00:46 2019. Huh? The PM times saved is 3-4 minutes. |
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Re: new timetable |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sat Sep 14 19:57:45 2019, in response to Re: new timetable, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Sep 14 19:07:20 2019. lol |
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| (1523930) | |
Re: new timetable |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Sep 14 20:13:34 2019, in response to Re: new timetable, posted by italianstallion on Sat Sep 14 19:57:30 2019. Eh, it depends what other train you compare against; they're all different.The first express takes 26 minutes (5:22 to 5:48) from Jay to Kings Highway, and then 14 more minutes to Coney Island. The train 2 earlier takes 28 (5:03 to 5:41) and 12 respectively. |
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| (1523933) | |
Re: new timetable |
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Posted by gbs on Sat Sep 14 21:07:40 2019, in response to Re: new timetable, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Sep 14 19:06:00 2019. How? South of Church Av all trains are on the same local track. How can two trains arrive at Kings Hwy at the same time? If they arrive at Church Av at the same time, one has to go first and arrive at Kings Hwy first, not at the same time. Furthermore, a regular F leaves Jay St at 5:13 and arrives at Coney Island at 5:53, 40 minutes later. Then back at Jay St, 9 minutes later at 5:22 the diamond-F leaves Jay St and arrives at Coney Island at 6:02, 40 minutes later, for a savings of zero! |
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Re: new timetable |
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Posted by K. Trout on Sat Sep 14 21:23:44 2019, in response to new timetable, posted by italianstallion on Sat Sep 14 18:53:04 2019. Interesting that they phrased the |
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Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16. |
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Posted by Brightonr68 on Sat Sep 14 23:56:17 2019, in response to Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16., posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Sep 14 19:44:47 2019. When trains run late or are congested they send train s down middle track to kings highway |
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| (1523948) | |
Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16. |
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Posted by BrooklynTrain on Sat Sep 14 23:56:43 2019, in response to Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16., posted by Brightonr68 on Sat Sep 14 23:56:17 2019. Saw the paper signs at 42nd/6th southbound today as well. |
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| (1523949) | |
Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16. |
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Posted by Brightonr68 on Sat Sep 14 23:57:46 2019, in response to Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16., posted by 3-9 on Sat Sep 14 16:41:56 2019. There are also signs at west 8 street station deep into brooklyn |
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| (1523950) | |
Re: new timetable |
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Posted by Brightonr68 on Sun Sep 15 00:04:45 2019, in response to Re: new timetable, posted by gbs on Sat Sep 14 21:07:40 2019. Insane how slow the f line is . It's why the Brighton line is so crowded . The f should run express church to kings highway, then all stops to still well .All stations kings highway and South would see increases in ridership and a smaller decrease in ridership avenue u and kings highway on Brighton. . People take bus to Brighton that could walk to f line. |
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| (1523967) | |
Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16. |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Sep 15 08:27:29 2019, in response to Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16., posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Sep 14 19:44:47 2019. I've ruled out schedule-padding; that doesn't seem to be it looking at the schedule, so I think it's an admission that they do sometimes schedule two trains to occupy the same space at the same time (or with an impossible interval of less than a minute). Yes, the local would shift to the middle track at Kings Hwy, but no way can it get there unless it first interferes with the express that, presumably, has been making the same stops at the same times since Church Ave.They've probably decided that scheduling two trains in the same space at the same time is probably not that big a deal in this situation because the odds of both of those trains, having come from 179th, being right on time coming south out of Church Ave, are slim. |
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| (1523968) | |
Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16. |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Sep 15 08:30:09 2019, in response to Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16., posted by Brightonr68 on Sat Sep 14 23:56:17 2019. I'd expect that practice to dissipate somewhat. Circle F trains on the express track at 18 Ave and diamond F trains on the local track at the same station sounds quite undesirable for wayfinding. |
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| (1523970) | |
Re: new timetable |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Sep 15 08:37:58 2019, in response to Re: new timetable, posted by AlM on Sat Sep 14 20:13:34 2019. On-scene reporting will prove very handy for this (more so than usual). I'd wager that in general every diamond F will pass exactly one circle F. I'm interested in what happens at Church Ave southbound if the diamond F catches the circle F there and they enter the station together, or even if the diamond F is about 30 seconds late. I would hope the express leaves first.I'm also wondering, while I'm at it, if there is room northbound for a local to wait outside of Church Ave for a G to start moving, but an express can come from behind and go around everyone - that might be a reason why there is extra time saved northbound? I figure, on the other hand, that at Jay St, if a local F is waiting for a G to merge into Bergen, the express behind it just has to sit and wait. |
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| (1523975) | |
Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16. |
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Posted by Kevin from Midwood on Sun Sep 15 10:42:46 2019, in response to Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16., posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Sep 15 08:27:29 2019. Yes, the local would shift to the middle track at Kings Hwy, but no way can it get there unless it first interferes with the express that, presumably, has been making the same stops at the same times since Church Ave.Yes, it doesn't make sense. According to Trip Planner, the <F> arrives at Avenue P at 5:43, and the (F) at 5:46, and both are scheduled to reach Kings Highway at 5:48. I guess in practice, in the improbable scenario that the trains adhere to the schedule all the way from 179th, the <F> would arrive at Kings Highway at ~5:45 and hold for a connection for (F) passengers needing to continue south. 
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| (1524026) | |
Signs are up |
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Posted by The Queen on Sun Sep 15 17:35:50 2019, in response to Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16., posted by Edwards! on Sat Sep 14 15:42:27 2019. There are overhead sings installed on the northbound platform at Church Ave. |
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| (1524039) | |
Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16. |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Sep 15 19:55:25 2019, in response to Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16., posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Sep 15 08:27:29 2019. The schedule dept does not schedule 2 trains on the same track at the same time. There are teams of schedule managers who work together to make sure that doesn’t happen. Looking at the timetable it looks like there is a 2 min hold at K/Hwy on all trains going through to Stl. The running time between Jay and K/Hwy on K/Hwy short turns shows 28 min but on thru trains it looks like 30 seeming to indicate that there is a S/B hold at K/Hwy for some reason. |
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| (1524040) | |
Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16. |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sun Sep 15 20:02:48 2019, in response to Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16., posted by randyo on Sun Sep 15 19:55:25 2019. Yeah, someone else here suggested they hold the through express to allow people on the following local to connect. |
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| (1524041) | |
Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16. |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sun Sep 15 20:04:39 2019, in response to Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16., posted by Kevin from Midwood on Sun Sep 15 10:42:46 2019. I think you got it right. They hold the express at Kings (confirmed in this thread by Randyo), probably to allow a connection from the following local that terminates there.. |
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Re: Signs are up |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Sep 15 20:22:20 2019, in response to Signs are up, posted by The Queen on Sun Sep 15 17:35:50 2019. I hate hearing singing from overhead. |
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| (1524063) | |
Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16. |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Sep 16 01:02:25 2019, in response to Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16., posted by italianstallion on Sun Sep 15 20:02:48 2019. Which defeats the purpose of having the express in the first place, at least for pax S/O K/Hwy. |
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| (1524065) | |
Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16. |
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Posted by jailhousedoc on Mon Sep 16 03:28:29 2019, in response to Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16., posted by italianstallion on Sun Sep 15 20:04:39 2019. That express will operate in the peak direction only, so it should operate from Kings Highway to Jay/ Metro-Tech. Why leave the center track unused if this service is being implemented ? What about Bergen Street station lower level ? Will it get the rehabilitation work so that it can function as intended ? |
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Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16. |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Sep 16 07:33:47 2019, in response to Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16., posted by randyo on Mon Sep 16 01:02:25 2019. I think this will all fall apart after a while like the 1 & 9 did.The wait for one, and the modestly shorter running time in practice, is not worth the longer intervals at skipped stations that result. |
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| (1524078) | |
Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16. |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Sep 16 08:20:15 2019, in response to Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16., posted by jailhousedoc on Mon Sep 16 03:28:29 2019. Because then the prime beneficiaries of the express would basically be Kings Hwy, Ave U, and Ave X, all of which are walking distance from the N. If Ave P, Ave N, Bay Pkwy, and Ave I don't get to participate in the express benefits, it couldn't possibly help more than it hurts (since as it is the local stops north of Church Ave are heavily used and will get less service).I don't like seeing tracks unused either, but a Culver Express just may not be in the cards without areas like Gravesend seeing a huge surge in population! |
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| (1524209) | |
Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16. |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Sep 16 16:06:14 2019, in response to Re: Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16., posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Sep 16 08:20:15 2019. When I was a M/M in 1969, I had a run for 2 weeks on which its last trip was an express all the way from K/Hwy to Bergen (at that time Bergen lower was open during rush hours). That pattern existed till 1976 when exp service N/O Church was discontinued but exp service between K/Hwy and Ditmas existed into the 1980s. The problem right now at the moment is that the switch that used to take trains from the lcl tk into the exp S/O K/Hwy has been removed so N/B in the AM it wouldn’t be possible for such a service. |
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| (1524272) | |
MTA info page |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Sep 16 20:17:54 2019, in response to Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16., posted by Chicago44 on Sat Sep 14 15:01:59 2019. link |
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F express study addendum - New service is just a pilot |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Sep 16 20:57:21 2019, in response to Are signs already up along the Brooklyn F line on the upcoming express trains starting Mon, Sept 16., posted by Chicago44 on Sat Sep 14 15:01:59 2019. Note the recent Addendum added to the very end of the previous F study linked below. It admits the new service is basically a pilot that will be reevaluated in a few weeks or months if it fails to reach projected ridership numbers.link "NYCT recommends implementing limited Brooklyn F Express service in September 2019. Once in operation, the service plan should be operated for a period of several weeks or months, to evaluate performance. Evaluation criteria would include: - Ridership – overall passenger loads on expresses and locals, as well as net travel time impacts. If ridership approaches the levels noted above (900 on the 7:00 train and the afternoon trains, 1,200 on the 7:30 trains), NYCT would deem the pilot to be successful in terms of demand. - Public response – market research of express and local riders - Performance metrics – running times of expresses and locals, journey time metrics, train performance, adherence to advertised times, etc." |
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Re: F express study addendum - New service is just a pilot |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Mon Sep 16 23:55:10 2019, in response to F express study addendum - New service is just a pilot, posted by italianstallion on Mon Sep 16 20:57:21 2019. Performance metrics – running times of expresses and locals, journey time Well, they can rig one of those metrics with zero extra work: Keep the existing speed limits and timers, which means less time savings. Eye dunno anything about those tracks, but I'll bet if it ran 50mph in the express section it would still be on the tracks when at the end. I'm guessing the actual average will be around 25. |
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| (1524322) | |
Re: F express study addendum - New service is just a pilot |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Sep 17 12:02:21 2019, in response to F express study addendum - New service is just a pilot, posted by italianstallion on Mon Sep 16 20:57:21 2019. Another Jerome avenue study?Awfully slanted way of doing a study, since only two trips one way during peak direction of travel. If anything,the Kings Hwy F should be relabled as V Rush hour locals, making all stops in Brooklyn... while the Coney Island trains remain F operating express between Jay and Kings Hwy. Doing this half ass only slants the numbers negatively.. The Same amount of trains will run... except some will get the V to 179th. |
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| (1524375) | |
Re: F express study addendum - New service is just a pilot |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Sep 17 18:23:18 2019, in response to Re: F express study addendum - New service is just a pilot, posted by Edwards! on Tue Sep 17 12:02:21 2019. Did you say, Slants?:) For a moment there I thought they were going to resurrect the slant R-40s. |
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| (1524377) | |
Re: F express study addendum - New service is just a pilot |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Sep 17 18:30:44 2019, in response to F express study addendum - New service is just a pilot, posted by italianstallion on Mon Sep 16 20:57:21 2019. They'll be gone in 6 months. |
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