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| Elevated Station Question (1513051) | |
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Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Fri May 17 13:02:14 2019, in response to Elevated Station Question, posted by andy on Fri May 17 13:00:34 2019. Queensboro Plaza |
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Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by TRAIN DUDE on Fri May 17 13:12:23 2019, in response to Elevated Station Question, posted by andy on Fri May 17 13:00:34 2019. Gun Hill Rd was. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Fri May 17 13:36:01 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by TRAIN DUDE on Fri May 17 13:12:23 2019. I think he means current ones. |
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Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by andy on Fri May 17 14:08:51 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by BILLBKLYN on Fri May 17 13:02:14 2019. Thank you! Forgot that one. Difference from W 8th is that at QB Plaza each line occupies both levels. The difference between levels is the direction, not the line. At W 8th each level is a separate line. |
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Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Fri May 17 15:35:19 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by andy on Fri May 17 14:08:51 2019. Also, W8 is the Brighton Line on both levels (both chained BMT A) though the Brighton hasn't been able to access the lower level since 1954. |
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Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by randyo on Fri May 17 16:28:19 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by SLRT on Fri May 17 15:35:19 2019. Disconnecting the lower level from the Brighton Line was a big mistake since it would have come in handy during the Stillwell Av terminal reconstruction. |
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Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Fri May 17 16:34:01 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by randyo on Fri May 17 16:28:19 2019. Agreed. Likewise not connecting the shuttle track to the main at Dimas Avenue, even though they built the steel work for it. |
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Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by randyo on Fri May 17 16:34:21 2019, in response to Elevated Station Question, posted by andy on Fri May 17 13:00:34 2019. Since you brought up the uniqueness of W 8 St, can anybody name the locations, (not necessarily limited to stations) where free standing elevated lines ( not elevated portions of subway lines) at one time or another passed under subway lines. |
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Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Fri May 17 16:40:46 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by randyo on Fri May 17 16:34:21 2019. Culver el under West End subway at 9th Avenue. Culver still 100% el line until at least 1931.9th Avenue el under Jerome Avenue Subway south of 167 st. 3rd Avenue el under WPR at Gun Hill Road. |
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| (1513090) | |
Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri May 17 16:46:56 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by randyo on Fri May 17 16:34:21 2019. canal st,3rd ave EL. |
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Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Fri May 17 16:52:18 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri May 17 16:46:56 2019. You're thinking Manhattan Bridge. |
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| (1513092) | |
Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Fri May 17 16:59:34 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by randyo on Fri May 17 16:34:21 2019. North of 161st Street on the Woodlawn line. Gun Hill Road. The Second Avenue L going under the Manhattan Bridge |
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Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat May 18 05:01:33 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by SLRT on Fri May 17 16:52:18 2019. ain`t it one in the same? |
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Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by Dan on Sat May 18 09:38:56 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by SLRT on Fri May 17 16:34:01 2019. I think the steel work south of Ditmas Ave was built to support the structure even though it always looked like track could be added to it. there was also the issue that the Culver Shuttle had the old BMT elevated third rail. So while railfans would have loved to see that connection it was never going to happen. |
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Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by randyo on Sat May 18 12:21:55 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by Dan on Sat May 18 09:38:56 2019. Third rail shoes on SMEEs are designed to work with both el and subway 3rd rail so it wouldn’t have been a problem. Also, there was no structural need to have that connection portion of the structure there at all. |
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| (1513173) | |
Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by randyo on Sat May 18 12:22:42 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri May 17 16:46:56 2019. 2 Av el ,not 3rd. |
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Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by randyo on Sat May 18 12:23:37 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by SLRT on Fri May 17 16:40:46 2019. There are still a couple of more that you missed. |
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Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by mack c-49 on Sun May 19 01:49:46 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by randyo on Sat May 18 12:21:55 2019. What's the difference between el and subway third rail and shoes? |
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| (1513213) | |
Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun May 19 04:49:37 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by mack c-49 on Sun May 19 01:49:46 2019. Height, distance from the running rail and, usually, weight.All BMT subway equipment and some part of the el equipment had compromise shoes that worked on either. |
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| (1513215) | |
Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun May 19 04:51:04 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by randyo on Sat May 18 12:23:37 2019. Did others also miss them? I don't want to duplicate what they wrote. |
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Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun May 19 05:01:24 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by randyo on Sat May 18 12:23:37 2019. Would you consider Broadway Junction? The Canarsie subway over the Broadway and Lexington els. Likewise west of Atlantic Avenue the Fulton el under Canarsie.Consider the Jamaica el an extension of the Broadway el? Jamaica Center et al under the E extension. |
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Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Sun May 19 10:50:38 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by SLRT on Fri May 17 16:34:01 2019. Man, at least having some sort of connection along the old Culver Shuttle would help during service disruptions and reroutes. |
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Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun May 19 12:10:39 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by G1Ravage on Sun May 19 10:50:38 2019. Whether MTA, CTA, or any ofthe others, inadequate funding has caused dumb amputations of routes which would be highly useful today. CTA tore down the Humboldt Branch of what is today the Blue Line which if restored would attract many riders. Worse, yet, they tore down a connector between two legs of the Blue which if restored would allow a "West Side Crosstown" skipping the Loop.We must find ways to limit the corruption in both the construction and operation of our transit systems or we will choke on congestion. |
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Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun May 19 12:27:25 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun May 19 12:10:39 2019. Myrtle Avenue el to Metrotech is Exhibit A.All those Bushwick/Ridgewood people would get a straight shot down. |
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Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by randyo on Sun May 19 13:05:44 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by SLRT on Sun May 19 04:49:37 2019. Original NYCTS el shoes were approximately the same type as currently used on CTA. |
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| (1513283) | |
Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by randyo on Sun May 19 13:10:01 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by SLRT on Sun May 19 05:01:24 2019. Bway Jct itself doesn’t count since the Bway El is part of the BMT Centre St subway. The presence of the Lex el is merely a case of an elevated line operating on subway trackage like the 3 Av el N/O Gun Hill. The Fulton El west of Atlantic, however, is definitely one. |
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| (1513286) | |
Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun May 19 13:17:33 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by randyo on Sun May 19 13:05:44 2019. Which is also why you can't have covered third rail in Chicago. |
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| (1513291) | |
Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun May 19 13:30:01 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by randyo on Sun May 19 13:10:01 2019. Some hair-splitting going on here.The Centre street subway was built as an extension of the existing Broadway el, not the other way around. For contrast, the WHite Plains Road line was built as an extension of the IRT subways. Now if Brooklyn Bridge elevated lines were brought into Chambers Street and that same Centre Street subway, would the Fulton Street el have become a subway line? |
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| (1513312) | |
Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sun May 19 17:03:28 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by SLRT on Sun May 19 13:30:01 2019. only when it ran underground. |
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Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by randyo on Sun May 19 21:11:04 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun May 19 12:10:39 2019. If I recall the last time I was in Chicago, the connection between the Congress and Douglas branches of the Blue Line was still intact but seldom used. |
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| (1513333) | |
Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by randyo on Sun May 19 21:21:01 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by SLRT on Sun May 19 13:17:33 2019. You could actually have “Manhattan” style protection boards which were on the sides of the 3rd rail rather than the top. |
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| (1513334) | |
Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by randyo on Sun May 19 21:24:27 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by SLRT on Sun May 19 13:30:01 2019. If that were the case, then the Fulton St Line would definitely be reclassified as an elevated extension of a subway line. As long as you are nitpicking about what was built as an extension of what, Prior to the opening of the IRT subway, the Westchester Av structure was operated as a part of the Manhattan els. |
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| (1513348) | |
Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon May 20 02:49:41 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by SLRT on Fri May 17 16:34:01 2019. Doing that might have made it practical to run 2 routes on Culver- IND from Stillwell to Church and BMT to 9th.Doing that might've made BMT section between Ditmas and 9th (which became the Culver Shuttle) viable for the long term. An amputated service, especially a single-track one, seems almost set up to fail. |
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| (1513349) | |
Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon May 20 02:52:47 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by randyo on Sat May 18 12:21:55 2019. Right- from 1954-59, there was BMT service from Manhattan to Ditmas Avenue. When the segment was shuttle-ized in 1959, the TA portrayed it as an improvement, to speed up 4th avenue service.So most definitely, service could be run from Ditmas Avenue into the BMT subway- because it was. |
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| (1513350) | |
Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon May 20 02:54:09 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by Joe V on Sun May 19 12:27:25 2019. Agree. Also, the Third Ave El in the Bronx (8) could be a help when there are issues on the 2/5. |
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Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon May 20 03:25:11 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by MainR3664 on Mon May 20 02:54:09 2019. Probably less need for Metro North Harlem and New Haven train service at the Bronx local stops had they kept the 3rd Ave el. |
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Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon May 20 05:15:27 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by randyo on Sun May 19 21:24:27 2019. I'll affirm your point on Westchester Avenue, but it was BUILT to be part of the Subway, but USED by Manhattan El first. |
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Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon May 20 05:22:01 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by MainR3664 on Mon May 20 02:52:47 2019. Seems like the TA almost always styled cuts as improvements.When they abandoned Myrtle, when they abandoned 3rd Avenue Bronx, they claimed that the replacement buses would be nicer, run more frequently, and generally be a better service. |
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Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Mon May 20 06:11:23 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by SLRT on Mon May 20 05:22:01 2019. HEH....yeahhhh right. |
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Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon May 20 10:00:56 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by SLRT on Mon May 20 05:22:01 2019. And the media, or at least the NY Times, actually bought into those story lines!! |
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Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon May 20 10:01:21 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by Joe V on Mon May 20 03:25:11 2019. Agree. |
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Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Mon May 20 10:39:56 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by BILLBKLYN on Fri May 17 13:02:14 2019. Remember the old QVEENSBORO PLAZA sign?That station and its approach tracks must have been something to see when the Second Avenue Elevated ran to and from Astoria and Flushing. |
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Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by qveensboro_plaza on Mon May 20 11:15:36 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by Mitch45 on Mon May 20 10:39:56 2019. Ah yes, I remember it well... |
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[PHOTO] Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon May 20 11:39:50 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by SLRT on Mon May 20 05:22:01 2019. Here's the replacement for the Myrtle Ave el....behold....the B-54. Myrtle & Jay St (April 1971) 
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon May 20 11:47:50 2019, in response to [PHOTO] Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon May 20 11:39:50 2019. Not much of a destination or a market then. |
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Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon May 20 11:52:40 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by Mitch45 on Mon May 20 10:39:56 2019. 
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by Q4 on Mon May 20 12:14:11 2019, in response to [PHOTO] Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon May 20 11:39:50 2019. Damn shame. |
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon May 20 12:42:19 2019, in response to [PHOTO] Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon May 20 11:39:50 2019. Just a raw cut of the pillars of the el and they left them there like that. |
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Re: Elevated Station Question |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon May 20 13:45:01 2019, in response to Re: Elevated Station Question, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon May 20 11:52:40 2019. One from days gone by. Looking west from the upper level of Qveensboro Plaza. Sorry for the lousy pic quality.
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