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Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon May 13 12:31:20 2019

Has anyone seen anything concrete about the final layout of the new Moynihan complex at Penn Station? Or whether Amtrak will shift all operations to the new complex, or other plans on its use in terms of transportation?

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon May 13 12:36:11 2019, in response to Plans for Moynihan?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon May 13 12:31:20 2019.

complex ?? its head house / shopping mall it will not change one iota of rail/platform area so your point is .......


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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by Joe V on Mon May 13 12:49:25 2019, in response to Plans for Moynihan?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon May 13 12:31:20 2019.

It is a concourse project, not a station project.

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by AlM on Mon May 13 13:35:31 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon May 13 12:36:11 2019.

He asked a legitimate set of questions, even though the rails and platforms will not change.



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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon May 13 13:47:53 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by Joe V on Mon May 13 12:49:25 2019.

Yes, thank you, I'm very much aware. What I'm asking is, since it will expand the amount of concourse space, will the 3 occupants of Penn Station split up space differently now? Will Amtrak move its passenger facilities (waiting room, ticketing, baggage, etc) to Moynihan and leave the space east of 8th Av for just NJT/LIRR? Some other layout? Has anything been decided?

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon May 13 13:49:05 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by AlM on Mon May 13 13:35:31 2019.

I asked his point , not yours.


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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon May 13 13:51:23 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon May 13 12:36:11 2019.

Excuse me for using the wrong term, but I think everyone on this board is well aware there's no new rail/platform space. What I'm asking is what is the planned use of the space railroad-wise. It's going to add a significant amount of space for pedestrian movement, so I'm wondering if perhaps they intend on separating Amtrak services from NJT services. IE, move the Amtrak ticketing/waiting room/baggage/etc to Moynihan concourse (since apparently using the word complex infers track and platform according to you), or whatever other use plans may have been generated already.

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by Joe V on Mon May 13 14:17:00 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon May 13 13:47:53 2019.

Amtrak will move to Moynihan for their main loading.

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon May 13 14:24:07 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by Joe V on Mon May 13 14:17:00 2019.

Thank you very much Joe V, this is exactly what I was hoping would be done! This will give NJT commuters breathing room in the existing facility while not tripping over Amtrak lines and bags. Has there been any release of specific floor plans for the new space, or is it just conceptual renderings at this point?

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by Joe V on Mon May 13 14:43:38 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon May 13 14:24:07 2019.

There probably are plans, but I have never seen them.

I don't think Amtrak passengers will much like schlepping over to the west side of 8th Avenue. It also means load imbalance issues on the trains from the western end.

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Mon May 13 14:48:08 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by Joe V on Mon May 13 14:43:38 2019.

I think they will be fine.

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon May 13 14:58:44 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by Joe V on Mon May 13 14:43:38 2019.

If Amtrak would allow people to board trains without showing their tickets prior people who don't need any type of customer service prior to boarding or who are coming straight off an LIRR/NJT/NYCT connection could still board from east of 8th Av if they wanted. And passengers exiting can still exit to whatever area, but those needing to pick up bags or anything would need to Moynihan.

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by AlM on Mon May 13 15:00:46 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon May 13 14:58:44 2019.

My feeling is that it would be foolish for Amtrak not to allow at least certain categories of customers to board east of 8th Ave.



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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon May 13 15:42:35 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by Joe V on Mon May 13 14:17:00 2019.

That'll be a PITA.

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon May 13 15:43:21 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon May 13 14:24:07 2019.

You really think that's going to be the result?

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by R30A on Tue May 14 00:51:07 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon May 13 14:58:44 2019.

Amtrak now does allow boarding without checking tickets at NYP.

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue May 14 03:49:44 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by R30A on Tue May 14 00:51:07 2019.

Yeah... they cannot guard the whole station. Some need to wait for the train to be posted and announced, others can use other stairwqys and go down there to wail.

Moaningham might change that, but savypax can still access the platforms from wherefver.

I do not expect baggage check in and pick up to move. It is where the elevators are.

ROQAR

ROAR

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue May 14 03:51:35 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by Olog-hai on Mon May 13 15:42:35 2019.

Why? Most LD pax already arrive at 8th Avenue, what difference is right or left.

Those who as arrive by Subway already know ho w to get arriound/

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by AlM on Tue May 14 04:13:00 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue May 14 03:49:44 2019.

I do not expect baggage check in and pick up to move. It is where the elevators are.

That's exactly what I would expect to move. There will just about certainly be new elevators west of 8th Ave. There may already be as part of Phase 1 (opening up an LIRR concourse west of 8th, which is complete).

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 14 04:59:30 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue May 14 03:51:35 2019.

They're going to have to walk back to 9th before they can get to 8th, and if they really want to go to 7th it becomes all the longer. Never mind the big taxi mess that is going to have to go a block west too. Complete waste.

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by AlM on Tue May 14 05:02:58 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue May 14 03:51:35 2019.

Most LD pax already arrive at 8th Avenue

Why would you say that? If you take a cab from midtown, it will come down 7th.



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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by AlM on Tue May 14 05:04:03 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 14 04:59:30 2019.

They're going to have to walk back to 9th before they can get to 8th

Huh? That makes no sense.



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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue May 14 05:12:11 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 14 04:59:30 2019.

9th has nothing to do with this. Neither the station nor their waiting rooms will be anywhere near 9th.

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue May 14 05:12:59 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by AlM on Tue May 14 05:02:58 2019.

If you take a cab from downtown it will come up 8th.

whatsa diff?

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by AlM on Tue May 14 05:43:27 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue May 14 05:12:59 2019.

The difference is that the overwhelming majority of business travelers will originate their trip in midtown, not downtown.



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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue May 14 06:12:23 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by AlM on Tue May 14 05:43:27 2019.

Proff?



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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by AlM on Tue May 14 06:15:37 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue May 14 06:12:23 2019.

Yawn. Any statistics about the distribution of office space in Manhattan.



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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue May 14 11:01:04 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by AlM on Tue May 14 05:43:27 2019.

So what about all those that live in residences downtown now?

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by AlM on Tue May 14 12:12:21 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue May 14 11:01:04 2019.

Also way overwhelmed by residential space uptown.

Are you seriously suggesting that most Penn Station taxi traffic doesn't come from north of 33rd Street? Do I have a too NYC-centric view on this issue?

PS. Even taxis coming from the south often are coming up 6th Ave and going across on 33rd and letting passengers off at 7th.


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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by Joe V on Tue May 14 13:43:34 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by R30A on Tue May 14 00:51:07 2019.

Yeh, but there is still much bureaucracy in loading the 2 Canadian trains, which are being combined this summer northbound.

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by Joe V on Tue May 14 13:46:01 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue May 14 05:12:59 2019.

There are subways along 8th, 7th, 6th, and Bway.
So most people coming are east of 8th.

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed May 15 03:49:48 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by AlM on Tue May 14 12:12:21 2019.

So revive the old TAXI depot.

Everything old is gnu again.

ROAR

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by pragmatist on Wed May 15 05:28:29 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed May 15 03:49:48 2019.

Screwed the reasonable idea of midblock ramp coming back when they decided to make 33rd a pedestrian space.

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by AlM on Wed May 15 05:34:23 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by pragmatist on Wed May 15 05:28:29 2019.

They were never going to allow that again. Too easy to drive a truck full of explosives in. There are only very limited places anymore where vehicles are allowed free access under buildings.

And anyway, the taxi stand doesn't give easy access to the future concourse west of 8th Ave. The only way to cross the 8th Ave subway is 2 levels down in a crowded passageway. My guess is the new Moynihan concourse is only 1 level down.




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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by pragmatist on Wed May 15 06:18:09 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by AlM on Wed May 15 05:34:23 2019.

Trucks never, but limited access with police control was feasible for taxi dropoff, but not waiting. But everything is changing anyway, with enormous amounts of office space to the West, and the Midtown East upzoning likely to result in the same in and around GCT tp the East, rather than the traditional North/South.

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by AlM on Wed May 15 06:25:18 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by pragmatist on Wed May 15 06:18:09 2019.

limited access with police control was feasible for taxi dropoff, but not waiting.

How do you prevent a suicidal truck driver from pushing his way through? You need large barricades that the security people lower for each vehicle to which they are willing to allow passage. The post-1994 WTC garage had those barriers, as do some other buildings. But they aren't very practical for a taxi dropoff location.





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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed May 15 06:54:58 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by pragmatist on Wed May 15 05:28:29 2019.

Yeh, but what they did can be undid or otherwise rebuilded. Maybe 33rd Street can become the Taxi stand for the station. Caab will take you to your entry place at the station, jsut like the do at the airpots.

ROAR

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed May 15 07:00:08 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by pragmatist on Wed May 15 05:28:29 2019.

Yeh, but what they did can be undid or otherwise rebuilded. Maybe 33rd Street can become the Taxi stand for the station. Caab will take you to your entry place at the station, just like the do at the airpots.

Gotta think outside of the box... unless you are a cat! : )

ROAR

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed May 15 07:04:14 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by AlM on Wed May 15 06:25:18 2019.

Can be a taxi ramp 16' above the street. Taxi Stops for LIRR, NJT, and AMTK. Taxi ramp crosses 8th Ave.

Have Eskaleators take you down to the respective areas. NJT eskaleators will thke you across the lobby on elevated walkways.

YOUSE guys look for reasons why-not.... LION looks for ways around your objecktions.

ROAR

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Wed May 15 07:10:18 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed May 15 07:00:08 2019.

Gotta think outside of the box... unless you are a cat! : )

In which case you're thinking INSIDE the box....as much as you can fit in it! lol

Meow

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by pragmatist on Wed May 15 07:22:52 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed May 15 07:04:14 2019.

cars drop off at the airports all the time

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by pragmatist on Wed May 15 07:24:06 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed May 15 07:00:08 2019.

they want to make 33rd a new lirr entrance, it isn't going back to a through street

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by AlM on Wed May 15 07:31:06 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed May 15 07:04:14 2019.

Can be a taxi ramp 16' above the street.

16' above the current (closed) taxi ramp is a building.

Why do you think the taxi ramps as currently constituted are inadequate and need any changes at all?





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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed May 15 10:59:22 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by pragmatist on Wed May 15 07:22:52 2019.

Right, my point exactly, there should be an arrivals line for NYP.

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed May 15 11:00:37 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by pragmatist on Wed May 15 07:24:06 2019.

Nope, LION thinks the drive should be 16' above existing streets, let eskaleatyors move the peeps up and down from the 'departures' roadway.

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed May 15 11:01:29 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by AlM on Wed May 15 07:31:06 2019.

Because youse guys said that pax could not get to the Moaningham Building.

ROAR

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by AlM on Wed May 15 11:06:24 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed May 15 10:59:22 2019.

There are currently two, one on 7th and one on 8th.




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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by AlM on Wed May 15 11:07:35 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed May 15 11:01:29 2019.

But reinstating the closed taxi ramp won't help that problem.


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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed May 15 11:52:59 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by AlM on Wed May 15 11:06:24 2019.

Yeah but peeps said that pax from the north can't get into the new moaningham building. So I put the taxi arrivals on 33rd Street.

Pax can be dropped at 7th 8th or 9th.

Slick, Right?

ROAR

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Re: Plans for Moynihan?

Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed May 15 11:54:44 2019, in response to Re: Plans for Moynihan?, posted by AlM on Wed May 15 11:07:35 2019.

Sure it will, it will continue all the way to 9th ave. Put it 16' above the existing street, keep Station traffic away from ground traffic.

ROAR

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