|
|
| Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes (1506305) | |
 |
|
| Home > SubChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
|
Page 2 of 3 |
||
|
| (1506600) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by italianstallion on Sun Mar 10 20:18:34 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by AlM on Sun Mar 10 18:51:43 2019. Thank you. |
|
|
| (1506601) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Mar 10 20:18:51 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by randyo on Sun Mar 10 19:42:38 2019. Your statement makes as much sense as this scenario: a homeowner needs some space to store gardening equipment.Me: "Maybe he should build a shed?" You: "That's silly, if you're going to go through all the effort to build a shed might as well go for a two car garage". |
|
|
| (1506603) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Sun Mar 10 20:27:06 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Mar 10 20:18:51 2019. Still no one willing to comment on whether a small extension triggers ADA requirements. If so, randyo would be right. |
|
|
(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
|
| (1506607) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Sun Mar 10 21:04:35 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by AlM on Sun Mar 10 20:27:06 2019. Something like that wouldn’t trigger ADA. |
|
|
| (1506610) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Mar 10 21:29:12 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by AlM on Sun Mar 10 18:51:43 2019. Enough already about the good old days...The current appropriate point of reference is what they could operate in 2010.To paraphrase Santayana, those who cannot remember history are doomed not to repeat it. Robert Ray, Layton Gibson The Robert Ray case involved not providing a timer to enforce slower speed for a switch diversion at Union Square. Such a timer is not activated for no diversion, which is normal operation. Thus, the changes resulting from Union Square cannot affect maximum tph during normal operation because they are not activated. The Layton Gibson case demonstrated that the emergency brakes missed their operating spec by much more than the 35% safety margin built into the signal system. Tests that were conducted with brakes to spec, the test train missed the impact point by more than 100 ft. Read the NTSB Report. tort law have killed the old days. Fortunately for the MTA, Gibson's case was covered by Workman's Compensation which protects employers from employee legal action. |
|
|
| (1506612) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Mar 10 21:40:55 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Mar 10 15:05:57 2019. I saw them back when the R-10s had the half-and-half paint scheme. Too bad I didn't have a camera. |
|
|
| (1506631) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Mar 11 07:00:07 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by Joe V on Sun Mar 10 15:35:38 2019. That also sounds familiar... |
|
|
| (1506636) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Mon Mar 11 07:37:08 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by randyo on Sun Mar 10 19:38:18 2019. There are still R32's running around with R27 pink seats. It can be seen where the gray paint has been worn off. |
|
|
| (1506637) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Mon Mar 11 07:40:54 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by randyo on Sun Mar 10 19:42:38 2019. PATH managed to do some minor platform stretching on the Hoboken and 33rd street branches from 6 to 7 cars. In some cases, simply painting the catwalk walls. It would have been a far more expensive effort to go to 8 cars. |
|
|
| (1506638) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Mon Mar 11 07:41:59 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by AlM on Sun Mar 10 20:27:06 2019. ADA says you can't close specific cars to the disabled. Isolating a door set for everyone would not affect ADA. |
|
|
| (1506646) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Mon Mar 11 10:10:50 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by Joe V on Mon Mar 11 07:41:59 2019. I was asking whether extending the platforms a few feet would trigger the provision that a renovated station must be made ADA compliant. |
|
|
| (1506649) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Mon Mar 11 10:22:08 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by AlM on Mon Mar 11 10:10:50 2019. If it is a cheap reno job under a certain $$ threshold, ADA regs are not triggered. |
|
|
| (1506650) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Mon Mar 11 10:39:31 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by Joe V on Mon Mar 11 10:22:08 2019. OK. But does a short platform lengthening get in under that threshold? If it doesn't the idea is doomed. |
|
|
| (1506651) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Mon Mar 11 10:52:24 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by AlM on Mon Mar 11 10:39:31 2019. Depends on what its costs. Threshold may be $250,000 or $700,000, I don't know. |
|
|
| (1506653) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by Edwards! on Mon Mar 11 11:44:15 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by randyo on Sun Mar 10 21:04:35 2019. It would be similar to what happens at Corona Yard.Mantaining two different train sets...5 and 6 car sets. |
|
|
| (1506655) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Mon Mar 11 11:57:33 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by Edwards! on Mon Mar 11 11:44:15 2019. I forgot the track layout entering Corona yard, but at ENY, trains can easily get wyed, depending on where they entered and where they leave. You'd have to put up conductor boards at stations for both the 4/9 and 5/9 positions. |
|
|
| (1506656) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 11 12:46:09 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by Joe V on Mon Mar 11 10:52:24 2019. I also believe it has to do with some percentage of overhaul work in the station in addition to that. |
|
|
| (1506658) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Mar 11 13:28:37 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by Joe V on Mon Mar 11 10:52:24 2019. Lots of stations get renovations that have to cost way more than that, and they don’t get ADA accessibility. |
|
|
| (1506660) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 11 13:36:00 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Mar 11 13:28:37 2019. Yes. That's why I think he is forgtting the "percentage of renovation" part of it in addition to that. |
|
|
| (1506661) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 11 13:37:38 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 11 13:36:00 2019. It's definitely not just those numbers he gave. $250,000 or even $750,000 is NOTHING in most station renovations. |
|
|
| (1506662) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 11 13:54:05 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by AlM on Sun Mar 10 19:51:50 2019. Metropolitan Ave is a huge hurdle. The other stations are original length BMT stations, but Metropolitan is not. It was shortened when it was rebuilt after the fire in the 70's. I think it's almost exactly the length to fit 8 60 foot cars, and the interlocking and room are right at the end of the platform.That said, I don't think ADA would be a problem there as it already is ADA compliant and is at street level. |
|
|
| (1506664) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Mon Mar 11 13:56:04 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Mar 11 13:28:37 2019. Ah, thank you, someone who has at least some vague idea. |
|
|
| (1506665) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Mon Mar 11 13:57:39 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 11 13:54:05 2019. So it could cost millions of dollars. But just think what NYCT would save in labor over 20 years by running 8/9ths as many trains in the Eastern Division. |
|
|
| (1506668) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Mon Mar 11 14:19:45 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by Joe V on Mon Mar 11 07:37:08 2019. That wouldn’t surprise me since all the molded plastic seats from the R-26 on up to the R-42s are interchangeable and that includes the flat comfortless seats of the R-40s. |
|
|
| (1506674) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Mon Mar 11 14:49:58 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 11 13:54:05 2019. Met was NEVER long enough for any more than 7 steels or 8 X 60 footers even before rebuilding. I worked at Met both as a M/M and a T/D and when the M started running via the Brighton Line and was extended to 8 cars, the 8 car trains just fit. In the 1960s when the Multis were assigned there I used to ride Myrtle/Chambers quite frequently and when the steels started to be reassigned there with increasing frequency, I noticed how little space there was between the leaving motor and the platform end. |
|
|
| (1506676) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Mar 11 15:03:07 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by AlM on Mon Mar 11 13:56:04 2019. ??? |
|
|
| (1506677) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by R30A on Mon Mar 11 15:04:59 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Mar 11 13:28:37 2019. But a court recently said that the MTA was breaking this specific law by not making their renovations ADA compliant. |
|
|
| (1506679) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Mon Mar 11 15:29:48 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Mar 11 15:03:07 2019. I've been asking, on this thread, are you sure you can do a 10 foot platform lengthening without hitting the threshold for mandatory ADA compliance.You are the first one to give any kind of useful answer, by saying that substantial renovations have occurred in stations without triggering ADA compliance requirements. |
|
|
| (1506680) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by R30A on Mon Mar 11 15:38:48 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by AlM on Mon Mar 11 15:29:48 2019. I don't think past history is really indicative of what can be done today because new laws have been passed and new court decisions have come down.I suspect the answer is that any platform extension would trigger ADA compliance on its own, regardless of the size of the project. |
|
|
| (1506681) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Mon Mar 11 15:42:09 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by R30A on Mon Mar 11 15:38:48 2019. Well, that answer, if correct, would explain why NYCT hasn't considered lengthening any groups of Eastern Division stations. |
|
|
| (1506682) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by R30A on Mon Mar 11 15:43:37 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by AlM on Mon Mar 11 15:42:09 2019. I doubt it-The ruling came less than a week ago :) |
|
|
| (1506684) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by italianstallion on Mon Mar 11 16:33:30 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by AlM on Mon Mar 11 15:29:48 2019. My impression of ADA is that a substantial renovation triggers ADA. I doubt extending a platform a few feet would qualify as such. |
|
|
| (1506685) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Mon Mar 11 16:36:30 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by italianstallion on Mon Mar 11 16:33:30 2019. They extended LIRR Forest Hills and Kew Gardens by 2 cars. Were they ADA compliant to start with ? |
|
|
| (1506686) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Mon Mar 11 16:39:17 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by italianstallion on Mon Mar 11 16:33:30 2019. But R30A is saying there's a very recent new ruling. |
|
|
| (1506688) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by italianstallion on Mon Mar 11 16:44:49 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by AlM on Mon Mar 11 16:39:17 2019. Not familiar with it. |
|
|
| (1506694) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by Union Tpke on Mon Mar 11 18:21:48 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by Joe V on Mon Mar 11 16:36:30 2019. Forest Hills is. Kew Gardens, by technicality, isn't. There are ramps to both platforms. However, there is no direct passage between the two platforms. You have to walk along Austin Street and Lefferts (for wheelchairs, otherwise use the passageway directly to Lefferts) before going onto Audley (to the parking lot) to get to the other platform. This is over the Lefferts Blvd bridge so there is a steep grade. There is no reason to build an overpass, so it likely won't ever be fully accessible. |
|
|
| (1506696) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Mon Mar 11 19:17:17 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by Union Tpke on Mon Mar 11 18:21:48 2019. So we did platform extension there on the cheap (and they look it), without triggering ADA. |
|
|
| (1506697) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by R30A on Mon Mar 11 19:30:40 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by Union Tpke on Mon Mar 11 18:21:48 2019. I don't believe there has to be a direct connection between the two for it to be fully ADA compliant. |
|
|
| (1506725) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by Avid Reader on Tue Mar 12 08:58:23 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Mar 10 15:47:25 2019. Perhaps isolating the first set(doors on both sides) and the last set of (doors on both sides) so when the train chances direction a safety margin would exist.The daily or very frequent rider would soon know about the isolated doors. Hopefully! |
|
|
| (1506726) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by Avid Reader on Tue Mar 12 09:15:09 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by randyo on Mon Mar 11 14:19:45 2019. Great for "PULLMAN SERVICE" on the overnight WINTER RUN on the "E" train. |
|
|
| (1506730) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by Avid Reader on Tue Mar 12 10:01:52 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 11 13:54:05 2019. interlocking and room are right at the end of the platform.so, GO Up. Raise the room and Interlocking above the proposed platform. |
|
|
| (1506759) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 12 14:18:08 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by Avid Reader on Tue Mar 12 10:01:52 2019. How in the world would you move a track interlocking ABOVE the tracks.I mean the track switches when I say interlocking is rignt at the end of the platform. Yes, the booth/tower could be moved, but the tracks need to be realigned further away too. |
|
|
| (1506761) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 12 14:20:04 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by R30A on Mon Mar 11 19:30:40 2019. I don't believe so either, as technically, you can leave one platform to street, and go back up to the other side. I don't believe there has to be an overpass to be fully ada compliant. |
|
|
| (1506781) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Mar 12 15:30:21 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by Union Tpke on Mon Mar 11 18:21:48 2019. Two ADA elevated stations that don't permit changing direction within the station are Marcy Ave and 231st St.One technicality might be that ADA does not have to provide a capability that's not available for the able bodied. |
|
|
| (1506801) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 12 18:12:16 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Mar 12 15:30:21 2019. That is correct. |
|
|
| (1506805) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 12 18:31:28 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Mar 12 15:30:21 2019. Bowling Green does not provide for ADA direction change, even though it is provided otherwise. |
|
|
| (1506813) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Mar 12 19:54:34 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 12 18:31:28 2019. They could change that by knocking down the fence and allowing northbound trains to open both sides (like the T's Park St on the red line). |
|
|
| (1506836) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Wed Mar 13 01:44:02 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Mar 12 19:54:34 2019. Unfortunately, when the cesspool of incompetence that passes for TA planning designed the N/B outside platform it doesn’t exactly align with the original platform so it can’t be done. |
|
|
| (1506892) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by Avid Reader on Wed Mar 13 15:10:33 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 12 14:18:08 2019. Would not the booth/Tower elevation, provide enough room for platform lengthening?Without moving the track switch. |
|
|
| (1506916) | |
Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Wed Mar 13 17:09:51 2019, in response to Re: Platform Lengths - BMT Eastern Divisiion routes, posted by Avid Reader on Wed Mar 13 15:10:33 2019. Since the platform is not even long enough for 8 steels, no. N/O the station there is a single Xover that can probably be converted to a diamond if the platform is ever extended. |
|
|
|
Page 2 of 3 |
||
