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CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by BrooklynTrain on Mon Feb 11 22:59:58 2019

Would be interesting to compare the two, if ridership statistics are available. Willing to bet the total weekend Q12/Q13 ridership is MUCH more than that of comparable weekend CitiTicket ridership due to cost.

Q12s are usually crush-loaded by the time they leave the first stop (Flushing) on weekends, with long lines waiting to board in front of Macy's. Q13s have heavy ridership too, but usually just a full seated load, since they run bit less frequently.

Most of the ridership gets on/off at the Flushing subway (presumably to transfer to the #7 train to Manhattan). They refuse to pay the $4.25 fare for LIRR weekend CitiTicket when the bus to subway fare is $2.75 (or even less if you're a heavy Unlimited user).

Also amazing how just about everyone pays the fare on these two bus lines. I guess the people who take the Q12/Q13 have a sense of moral pride and ethics, compared to the 50% of those who march past the driver without saying a word on many Staten Island buses (especially on the North Shore).

Think of all the extra buses the MTA must run on the Q12 and Q13 lines because they charge so much on the LIRR. If the LIRR accepted Unlimited Metrocard within city limits (via "pay before boarding" machines), think of how much money the MTA could save by cutting the frequency of the Q12/Q13 by half or more.

On the Q13 which passes directly in front of several LIRR stations (including Bayside), I've seen many passengers getting on the bus right in front of the LIRR stations and get off at Main St for the #7 train.

I guess the MTA doesn't mind running expensive local buses, even though having the LIRR accepting Unlimited Metrocard would be much more cost effective for them (enabling them to cut frequencies on the Q12/Q13). They'd save money this way, and actually be helping the passengers reach Manhattan quicker. Everyone would win. At least they could do this "weekends only".

Similar argument for Southeast Queens stations (Queens Village, etc).

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(1503113)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Feb 11 23:06:15 2019, in response to CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by BrooklynTrain on Mon Feb 11 22:59:58 2019.

Unfair to point out obvious cases. MTA has "tradition" to uphold.

Of course the LIRR within city limits should be Metrocard accessible.

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(1503116)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Feb 11 23:26:32 2019, in response to CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by BrooklynTrain on Mon Feb 11 22:59:58 2019.

A lot of it is people simply don't understand the railroad or know how to get / use a city ticket, or even that such a ticket it exists. The fare collection system lends itself to uncertainty (you have to purchase the correct ticket before boarding or risk paying even more). Those who are willing to give it a try take one look at the off peak (or worse, peak) fare and nope on out of there.

I'm sure I sound like a broken record but a turnstile based system is far more intuitive for distance / time based fare control, as WMATA has proven.

All of that said, dropping the fare to equal a subway fare is a bit too much of a leap. The Port Washington branch weekend trains typically run with all cars open and (aside from the westernmost pair of cars) still end up having standees. If they were to make it subway fare (or at the very least somehow provide 1 free transfer to the subway) they would need to beef up frequency to 3 or even 4 TPH for at least the Queens portion.

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(1503132)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Feb 12 04:23:18 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Feb 11 23:26:32 2019.

The Port Washington branch weekend trains typically run with all cars open and (aside from the westernmost pair of cars) still end up having standees. If they were to make it subway fare (or at the very least somehow provide 1 free transfer to the subway) they would need to beef up frequency to 3 or even 4 TPH for at least the Queens portion.

Carrying passengers is a terrible burden for the LIRR.

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(1503133)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Feb 12 04:47:34 2019, in response to CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by BrooklynTrain on Mon Feb 11 22:59:58 2019.

The heavy weekend use of the Q12/13 over the LIRR should not be surprising. History is littered with instances where cheap fares drove the more expensive mode out of business.

The expansion of el and subway service into the Bronx wrecked local NYC and New Haven service there.

The SIRT was doomed when the City took over the Staten Island buses in 1947. Fares were reduced from a dime to a nickel. This made the bus less expensive than the SIRT. The SIRT went bankrupt within 5 years. It's survived on artificial respiration ever since.

Most of Queens was served by the LIRR, until the subway came with the Dual Contracts. The BRT's Liberty and Jamaica extensions wrecked the LIRR's Atlantic Ave service. The IRT's extension to Corona and Flushing wrecked the Whitestone Branch. Later, the IND finished off Main Line service. The subway's appeal wasn't faster service. It was less expensive service.

There's even an economic law that describes this phenomenon: Gresham's Law.

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(1503153)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by Joe V on Tue Feb 12 08:33:40 2019, in response to CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by BrooklynTrain on Mon Feb 11 22:59:58 2019.

I was randomly looking at the new website https://www.mylirr.org/ over the weekend to find any M-3 consists running (didn't see any).

I did catch an M-7 on the Port Wash that was 12 cars. You'd think they'd park such consists on weekends, but it probably rotated in from a Ronkonkoma train.

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(1503154)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Feb 12 08:36:01 2019, in response to CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by BrooklynTrain on Mon Feb 11 22:59:58 2019.

The only Manhattan LIRR station is Penn Station.

Someone living in northeastern Queens equidistant from a Q12 bus stop and an LIRR station, and seeking any area of Manhattan that is not walking distance from Penn Station, would likely choose the Q12 to the subway even if the LIRR was just a dollar.

Sometimes I'm going from Northeastern Queens to an MSG event on a weekend. That's the only time I really ever consider LIRR for intra-NYC travel, and even then it's a close call. I would do the same if I was catching Amtrak or NJT from Penn.

Unless Penn Station is at or very near the passenger's final destination, it's not $2.75 vs. $4.25. It's $2.75 vs. $7 (not counting other discounts).

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(1503160)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Feb 12 09:37:20 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Feb 12 04:23:18 2019.

Just saying that the need for increased frequency would be the immovable object that prevents lower or more convenient fares.

Personally I think they should start with a "round trip city ticket" good for 2 rides (expiring at the end of the weekend instead of the end of the day) for $8.50 with a Metrocard on the back coded for 2 free rides.

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(1503162)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 12 10:10:27 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Feb 12 04:47:34 2019.

How did the Flushing Extension wreck the Whitestone Branch?

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(1503166)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by Joe V on Tue Feb 12 10:45:34 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Feb 12 04:47:34 2019.

People pay express bus fares and siphon them off the subway.

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(1503169)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by Edwards! on Tue Feb 12 10:49:54 2019, in response to CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by BrooklynTrain on Mon Feb 11 22:59:58 2019.

What is this?
Another veiled political argument,or another one of your bigoted exploits of how "decent WR people are"?

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(1503171)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by Joe V on Tue Feb 12 11:04:51 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 12 10:10:27 2019.

Whitestone Branch could have been an extension of the Flushing Line, though the branch started at next to the last stop of the Flushing line (Corona).

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(1503175)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by italianstallion on Tue Feb 12 11:47:04 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Feb 12 08:36:01 2019.

This is why in-city travel on LIRR or MNRR should include a free MetroCard transfer to bus or subway.

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(1503176)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Feb 12 11:52:35 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by Joe V on Tue Feb 12 11:04:51 2019.

True, however to do that would require a major rebuild, elimination of several grade crossings & an overall investment of millions of $$$.
NYC already committed those bucks to building the Independent Subway. Bottom line, the $$$ & fire in the belly attitude to get that done was just not there. The depression happening also didn't help.

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(1503177)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by Joe V on Tue Feb 12 12:02:33 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Feb 12 11:52:35 2019.

They wouldn't have to do much of anything except put in a tripcock signal system. The Canarsie line had a grade crossing. It would be like the CTA Ravenswood, Douglas Park, or Evanston branches, which are more like a railroad, and never rebuilt to be like n el.

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(1503181)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by Michael549 on Tue Feb 12 12:19:53 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Feb 12 08:36:01 2019.

This is a very good point.

Mike

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(1503185)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Feb 12 13:05:13 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by Joe V on Tue Feb 12 12:02:33 2019.

One, possibly two grade crossings you could live with. There were many more than just one or two grade crossing on the Whitestone branch. That was the major deal breaker right there.

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(1503223)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by sloth on Tue Feb 12 19:24:08 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Feb 12 10:10:27 2019.

Arrts Archives has this: http://arrts-arrchives.com/wstone3.html
The article on the abandonment filing near the bottom of the page.

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(1503249)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by sloth on Wed Feb 13 00:06:05 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Feb 12 13:05:13 2019.

There were 12 grade crossings. My best guess is: College Point Blvd, Northern Blvd, 32nd Ave, 23rd Ave, 20th Ave / 128th St, 14th Ave, 144th St, 147th St, 14th Ave again, 149th St, 12th Rd, 10th Ave.

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(1503271)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by lirr42 on Wed Feb 13 08:47:46 2019, in response to CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by BrooklynTrain on Mon Feb 11 22:59:58 2019.

I have CityTicket usage data here... LIRR 2016 Ticket Sales Data

I'll try to filter out the specific station pairs a little later.

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(1503272)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by Dyre Dan on Wed Feb 13 09:33:31 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Feb 12 04:47:34 2019.

But then there was the NYWB, which expected people to use it and the subway, rather than the more expensive New Haven or Harlem line trains to GCT, and turned out to be wrong.

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(1503289)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by AlM on Wed Feb 13 11:00:28 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by Dyre Dan on Wed Feb 13 09:33:31 2019.

I doubt the price differential was as large.

Subway vs. railroad to the Bronx: time might be close to twice as long, price maybe a fifth, give or take, over the years.

NYWB vs. NHRR to Westchester: time probably also close to twice as long. But what was the relative price? Certainly not lower to the same degree.

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(1503290)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Feb 13 11:13:29 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by Dyre Dan on Wed Feb 13 09:33:31 2019.

I purposely did not include the NYW&B because its monopoly lasted a scant 8 years. I don't have a baseline to compare is use before and after the Dual Contract expansions.

The NYW&B did not count on the 1916 zoning law that stopped commercial development at 60th St. They assumed that Manhattan would continue to expand further north and eventually meet its Bronx terminal. Something similar happened with Grand Central.

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(1503312)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by randyo on Wed Feb 13 15:24:35 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Feb 13 11:13:29 2019.

Of course, transit planners didn’t think of all the possibilities, but considering that even back the, the NH had the right to enter Penn, I wonder why arrangements couldn’t have been made for the NYW&B to enter Manhattan via Penn.

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(1503320)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Feb 13 17:24:37 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by sloth on Wed Feb 13 00:06:05 2019.

Yep, most if not all would have to go if the IRT was to get the Whitestone branch, requiring a massive $$$ investment.

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(1503325)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Feb 13 17:46:38 2019, in response to CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by BrooklynTrain on Mon Feb 11 22:59:58 2019.

I think a restructuring of LIRR fares within NYC is long overdue, but it will result in higher ridership which means they're going to have to run more service. How much is a question, and how much of the new post-ESA capacity at NYP will it eat up? Either way, I'd propose the following:

NYP/GCT are Zone 1
All current LIRR Zone 1 stations are put into a new Zone 2
Zone 3 remains as is

Intra-zone travel = subway/bus fare
Travel to adjacent zone = something around the price of city ticket
Travel between zones 1 and 3 = express bus fare

This way hopefully some local routes can be reduced and some express routes could be outright eliminated.

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(1503326)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 13 17:49:51 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Feb 13 17:24:37 2019.

Why ?

Ever ridden the CTA branches ?

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(1503329)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Feb 13 17:55:12 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by randyo on Wed Feb 13 15:24:35 2019.

even back the, the NH had the right to enter Penn, I wonder why arrangements couldn’t have been made for the NYW&B to enter Manhattan via Penn.

The Hell Gate Bridge did not open until 1918.

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(1503335)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 13 18:29:29 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by randyo on Wed Feb 13 15:24:35 2019.

New Haven owned the NYW&B. Do you think the NH would have let their troubled stepchild eat their lunch by going directly to Manhattan ?

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(1503336)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 13 18:35:18 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Feb 13 17:46:38 2019.

On the LIRR, that's how it was prior to zone fares in 1975. Everything west of Jamaica was the same except Penn Station.

They even had a couple of Hunterspoint trains stopping at Forest Hills or Kew Gardens. That latter may have been a consolation prize for not running on the lower Montauk and stopping at Richmond Hill. That stopped in the early 1970's.

Then they went to zone 1A (Kew Gardens - Penn Station) and everything else west of Jamaica was Zone 1B. You could buy a 10-trip supplemental for $2 that upgraded a 1B monthly ticket to 1A.

In the 1980's LIRR got neurotic obsessive compulsive with fare zone merging, and abolished it.

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(1503339)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Feb 13 19:00:48 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Feb 13 17:46:38 2019.

I'd add in another adjustment. Once GCT (and possibly PSA) comes into effect, some form of city zone ticket should allow for transferring between LIRR and MNRR without having to buy two separate one way tickets.

To avoid muddying revenue, take the King Solomon approach for such tickets and divide the money taken 50/50 among the two RRs.

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(1503347)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Feb 13 19:13:36 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 13 17:49:51 2019.

No. Do these CTA branches have high level platforms? Besides, with the growth of the area, the locals never would have tolerated all those grade crossings with all the horn blowing that went along with it by trains maintaining a subway schedule.

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(1503353)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by sloth on Wed Feb 13 19:24:43 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 13 17:49:51 2019.

By 1923 and perhaps earlier, it was known that the NY state transit commission would require the elimination of all 12 crossings. So it's not a question of whether it could have worked.

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(1503354)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 13 19:31:34 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Feb 13 19:13:36 2019.

Yes, they do have high platforms. The NYC subway used to have East 105th Street.

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(1503355)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Feb 13 19:33:47 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by sloth on Wed Feb 13 19:24:43 2019.

But how did the Canarsie line grade crossing escape that requirement??

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(1503356)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 13 19:46:35 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Feb 13 19:13:36 2019.

Douglas Park (Pink), Ravenswood (Brown), Evanston (Purple), Skokie (Yellow) all have hi level platforms, always did, over-sliding 3rd rail , no cover boards, grade crossings, and some horn blowing over the decades. The latter two had North shore Line interurbans as well.

Put yourself in 1931 when the Whitestone Branch was abandoned. It could have been done, and they only needed a Steinway Tunnel or 2nd Avenue el train every half hour.

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(1503357)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 13 19:48:05 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Feb 13 19:33:47 2019.

There was no requirement and it makes no difference whether service was an MP54 or a Lo-V.

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by BrooklynTrain on Wed Feb 13 23:46:42 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Feb 13 17:46:38 2019.

Unless Unlimited Metrocard is accepted on off-peak trains (via pay-before-boarding), the masses are not going to use it. There is lots of extra off-peak capacity on many LIRR trains.

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(1503390)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by N6 Limited on Thu Feb 14 01:18:48 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by lirr42 on Wed Feb 13 08:47:46 2019.

Is there any Atlantic Ticket sales data available?

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(1503446)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by randyo on Thu Feb 14 16:14:11 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 13 19:31:34 2019.

It still does. Only the grade crossing is gone.

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(1503448)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by randyo on Thu Feb 14 16:21:14 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Feb 13 17:55:12 2019.

It could have been done after Hellgate opened.

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(1503449)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by randyo on Thu Feb 14 16:22:28 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 13 18:29:29 2019.

If the money would be going into the same pockets. why not?

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(1503457)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by Joe V on Thu Feb 14 17:10:40 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by randyo on Thu Feb 14 16:22:28 2019.

Not really. NYW&B in the NH's eyes was redundant.

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(1503497)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by randyo on Fri Feb 15 03:17:17 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by Joe V on Thu Feb 14 17:10:40 2019.

Maybe, but if there was an opportunity to bring more money in, why not?

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(1503507)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Feb 15 08:18:36 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by randyo on Thu Feb 14 16:22:28 2019.

The price structure for the NYW&B was below the NH. Every dollar brought in by the NYW&B would have meant more than a dollar removed from the NH. That was their management view.

History is littered with the remains of companies that tried to suppress new technologies because it would disrupt a sure, steady income stream.

Kodak invented digital photography. It did not pursue it because it would cut into their film business.

GE invented the compact fluorescent. It declined to produce them because it would cut into incandescent bulb sales.

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(1503530)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by ntrainride on Fri Feb 15 15:06:25 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by Michael549 on Tue Feb 12 12:19:53 2019.

expensive. tannstaafl.

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(1503535)

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by randyo on Fri Feb 15 16:07:39 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Feb 15 08:18:36 2019.

Probably not good business sense. Didn’t Kodak go out of business and isn’t GE in some sort of financial difficulties?

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Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership

Posted by Joe V on Fri Feb 15 17:44:55 2019, in response to Re: CitiTicket ridership (Flushing to Little Neck) vs Q12/Q13 weekend ridership, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Feb 15 08:18:36 2019.

Now look at what is happening to GE. They will fall apart over the next few years like Westinghouse did.

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