Park Avenue (Brooklyn)

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Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by R42ToMoffat on Sat Feb 2 18:38:14 2019 I was looking at pictures of old maps of the BRT and saw that there used to be a station at Park Avenue & Broadway in between Flushing Avenue and Myrtle Avenue. Are there any pictures available showing how it looked?
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by Union Tpke* on Sat Feb 2 20:41:11 2019, in response to Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by R42ToMoffat on Sat Feb 2 18:38:14 2019.* There aren't any pictures I know of. It was removed as a third track was added to the Jamaica Line. It closed in 1916.
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by Dupont Circle Station* on Sat Feb 2 22:11:58 2019, in response to Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by R42ToMoffat on Sat Feb 2 18:38:14 2019.* I haven't come across any photos of Park Ave. It was eliminated when the el was rebuilt under the Dual Contracts in 1916. I would venture a guess that it looked rather like the old Myrtle stations between Jay and Bway.
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by Express Rider* on Sat Feb 2 22:40:33 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by Dupont Circle Station on Sat Feb 2 22:11:58 2019.* If there any Photos were taken at all, they would be deep in some archive. Good hunting! :) Or, they might have been thrown out by at the TA with much of the original BRT material during the early 1960s, the beaurocratic mind's rationale being, these are old photographs of structures that don't exist anymore, who needs them.... NYC transit history lost :(
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by Edwards!* on Sat Feb 2 23:17:26 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by Union Tpke on Sat Feb 2 20:41:11 2019.* It was no longer needed since the Myrtle ave stop would be moved westerly to accommodate the new connection to the Myrtle ave Elevated. Today,the end of the current M/B station is a block from the old Park ave stop. However..it most likely would have looked similar to the stations over Fulton st. I have seen pics of GATES AVE...
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by R42ToMoffat* on Sun Feb 3 07:00:31 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by Edwards! on Sat Feb 2 23:17:26 2019.* If there aren’t any pictures, that kinda sucks. At the same time, if the Flushing Avenue station had its exit to Fayette Street like it does nowadays, it would’ve been only two blocks away. I don’t suppose Myrtle Avenue had a second exit on the western end?
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by Avid Reader* on Sun Feb 3 09:48:11 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by R42ToMoffat on Sun Feb 3 07:00:31 2019.* I do not know where this photo is or was from. But it came up as a result of an exhaustive and intense search. If nothing else, it is an interesting photo.
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by Edwards!* on Sun Feb 3 09:55:47 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by Avid Reader on Sun Feb 3 09:48:11 2019.* Nah This is the old Grand st stop on the Lexington Ave elevated junction with the Myrtle el. Notice there is only one platform.
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by Edwards!* on Sun Feb 3 09:58:33 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by Avid Reader on Sun Feb 3 09:48:11 2019.* Nah This is the old Grand st stop on the Lexington Ave elevated junction with the Myrtle el. Notice there is only one platform. Man..those trains are really needed today...its horrible that there USE to be TWO services ("TWO") there...now there nothing.
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by Avid Reader* on Sun Feb 3 10:08:43 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by Avid Reader on Sun Feb 3 09:48:11 2019.* Well, now I know where it was from. Tnx
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by BrooklynBus* on Sun Feb 3 10:25:45 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by Express Rider on Sat Feb 2 22:40:33 2019.* On my first day at City Planning on December 31, 1973, they asked us to empty out an old closet and throw out whatever we find. Instead we took the treasures home with us. A bunch of old subway and trolley maps. There was separate IRT, BMT, and IND maps. An areal BMT trolley, bus and elevated map, and plans for every subway station on the Utica Avenue line. I got the last two, but sadly the subway plans were lost or destroyed after Hurricane Sandy. There are many other old maps I also can no longer locate. The trolley map hangs in my bedroom. Bus routes were added in 1936. And someone “demolished” the Second Avenue El, but my boss had an artist rebuild it so it matches the others now. If it were only so easy to do in real life.
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by Express Rider* on Sun Feb 3 11:36:05 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Feb 3 10:25:45 2019.* Sorry to hear about what you lost, but you were very lucky to find all those maps, and were able to save them and take them home at the time.
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by Express Rider* on Sun Feb 3 11:46:05 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 3 09:55:47 2019.* This scene has always been a favorite photo of mine. I wish I could have checked out this station personally. Alas, being born in June 1950, the Lex. was gone by the time I was only a few months old.
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by R42ToMoffat* on Sun Feb 3 12:31:38 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 3 09:58:33 2019.* Was there any reason why another platform wasn’t built on the other side?
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Digital Collections (Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn))
Posted by Kevin from Midwood* on Sun Feb 3 13:30:28 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by Express Rider on Sat Feb 2 22:40:33 2019.* Speaking of archives, would you happen to know if anyone is keeping a list of publicly accessible, searchable digital collections (relevant to this message board and to area history in general) on the web? I suspect my bookmarks are incomplete. nycsubway.org New York City Municipal Archives 80s.nyc (map UI for NYCMA 1980s tax photos) Museum of the City of New York New York Public Library Digital Culture of Metropolitan New York Library of Congress New York Historical Society New York Heritage New York State Archives Old NYC Photos Shorpy There's also the Internet Archive and YouTube for video. Last-ditch efforts include doing image searches at Google or Bing with a date range or for black-and-white images only. Various materials also surface on blogs, eBay, Pinterest, Tumblr, Reddit, etc. The offerings on Facebook are extremely limited for those of us who don't want an account there. Sites like Long Island Rail Road History are great for browsing, but many lack search functionality.
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Re: Digital Collections (Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn))
Posted by Express Rider* on Sun Feb 3 13:53:49 2019, in response to Digital Collections (Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)), posted by Kevin from Midwood on Sun Feb 3 13:30:28 2019.* You have listed the main ones that I have been aware of. Thanks for your tip about the internet archive.
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by MainR3664* on Sun Feb 3 14:05:14 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 3 09:58:33 2019.* The Myrtle would indeed be a useful line today. It still was (as far as I can tell- I was 16 months old when it closed) in 1969.
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by Elkeeper* on Sun Feb 3 15:18:37 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by R42ToMoffat on Sun Feb 3 12:31:38 2019.* I believe the other one was on Grand, north of Myrtle Ave. It was removed when the Old Main Line, north of Myrtle and westbound on Park Ave to Hudson Ave, was closed. When the Lexington el was connected to the Myrtle Ave el, only the eastbound platform remained.
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by Elkeeper* on Sun Feb 3 15:19:29 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 3 15:18:37 2019.* Correction- westbound platform remained!!!
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Re: Digital Collections (Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn))
Posted by Kevin from Midwood* on Sun Feb 3 16:04:54 2019, in response to Re: Digital Collections (Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)), posted by Express Rider on Sun Feb 3 13:53:49 2019.* There's not a whole lot at the Internet Archive that's relevant and easy to find, but they've been hosting Carson Davidson's 1955 Third Avenue El video — one that we've probably all seen — since before YouTube existed (uploaded in 2002). I also added Columbia University Digital Library Collections to my list.
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by Chris R16/R2730* on Sun Feb 3 16:40:56 2019, in response to Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by R42ToMoffat on Sat Feb 2 18:38:14 2019.* This is one of those Holy Grail pics that don't seem to exist anywhere on the internet. Ditto for Evergreen Ave on the Myrtle, the Park Ave elevated or an LIRR MP41 anywhere on BRT trackage.
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Re: Digital Collections (Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn))
Posted by R42ToMoffat* on Sun Feb 3 16:41:18 2019, in response to Re: Digital Collections (Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)), posted by Kevin from Midwood on Sun Feb 3 16:04:54 2019.* How do you insert images?
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Re: Digital Collections (Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn))
Posted by Kevin from Midwood* on Sun Feb 3 17:09:56 2019, in response to Re: Digital Collections (Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)), posted by R42ToMoffat on Sun Feb 3 16:41:18 2019.* First, the images have to be hosted somewhere. If they're already on the web and you get the URL for the actual image (not the web page it's on), then you've got the first step out of the way. If they're on your computer or tablet or smartphone, you'll have to upload them to a site like (among many others) Flickr, Imgur, TinyPic, or ThinImg. Once you have a URL for your image, follow item # 4 here.
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Re: Digital Collections (Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn))
Posted by K. Trout* on Sun Feb 3 17:49:31 2019, in response to Digital Collections (Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)), posted by Kevin from Midwood on Sun Feb 3 13:30:28 2019.* For sites without search functionality, you can use Google to search that site by appending site:THE_URL. For example, Jamaica site:www.lirrhistory.com
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by Express Rider* on Sun Feb 3 18:13:18 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 3 15:18:37 2019.* I had read that there was only a westbound Lexington platform at Grand St. because it was reasoned if the Lexington/Grand stop had two platforms it would have been redundant - northbound passengers could take a Myrtle train rather than a Lexington trainn if they wanted to get off at Grand St.
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by jan k. lorenzen* on Sun Feb 3 21:19:09 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Feb 3 16:40:56 2019.* Or any of the cable car line that ran under the Park Ave el.
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by Q4 on Mon Feb 4 08:13:25 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Feb 3 10:25:45 2019. Sorry for the loss of those treasures. I would have loved to been able to get my hands on the plans for the subway stations on the proposed Utica Avenue Line.
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by R42ToMoffat* on Mon Feb 4 11:01:35 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by jan k. lorenzen on Sun Feb 3 21:19:09 2019.* Did the B62 bus replace a streetcar line?
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by K. Trout* on Mon Feb 4 11:09:05 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Feb 3 16:40:56 2019.* Construction photos of 76th Street. :)
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by Elkeeper* on Mon Feb 4 13:27:51 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by Express Rider on Sun Feb 3 18:13:18 2019.* I was talking about the Old Main Line station at Myrtle Ave, some 3- 4 years BEFORE the Myrtle Ave el opened. When the Myrtle el did open in 1888, it was initially routed to Grand and Park Aves, while the Lexington el was sent down Myrtle Ave. After the crash farther west at Hudson & Myrtle Aves, it was decided to run all Myrtle and Lexington trains west on Myrtle Ave, about a year later, on 12/09/1889. Also on that date, all service, between Park & Hudson Aves and Grand & Myrtle Aves, ended all service, replaced by a shuttle on Hudson Ave from Myrtle/Navy.
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Mon Feb 4 13:28:44 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by R42ToMoffat on Mon Feb 4 11:01:35 2019.* Until 2009 the B62 bus was part of the B61 route which ran between Red Hook and Long Island City. This replaced a streetcar route.
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by Elkeeper* on Mon Feb 4 13:40:48 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by Elkeeper on Mon Feb 4 13:27:51 2019.* My best guess is that eastbound platform, unused since 12/09/1889 for the Old Main line (north of Myrtle) was probably removed when the Park Ave el was torn down in 1893-94.
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by Elkeeper* on Mon Feb 4 13:45:15 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by Express Rider on Sun Feb 3 11:46:05 2019.* The other (eastbound) platform was located north of Myrtle.
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by Elkeeper* on Mon Feb 4 13:52:07 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by Q4 on Mon Feb 4 08:13:25 2019.* Which ones? The original IRT Utica Ave extension, the first IND Utica plans, or the later IND plans from the 1950's???
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by R42ToMoffat* on Mon Feb 4 14:24:46 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by Elkeeper on Mon Feb 4 13:27:51 2019.* From The JoeKorNer, history is fun!
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by Q4 on Mon Feb 4 14:25:01 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by Elkeeper on Mon Feb 4 13:52:07 2019. Not sure if your question was directed to Brooklyn Bus (probably was) or me but I would have loved to have seen any one if not all
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by Joe V* on Mon Feb 4 14:42:36 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by R42ToMoffat on Mon Feb 4 14:24:46 2019.* What a complex network they had.
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by Elkeeper* on Mon Feb 4 15:35:46 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by R42ToMoffat on Mon Feb 4 14:24:46 2019.* Sadly, this page, lifted from THE TRACKS OF NEW YORK, NUMBER 2, do not show any of the old stations or platforms.
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by randyo* on Mon Feb 4 17:48:02 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by Elkeeper on Mon Feb 4 13:45:15 2019.* There was never any eastbound platform for Grand on the Lex. Anyone who wanted Grand had to take a Myrtle train.
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by Elkeeper* on Mon Feb 4 20:13:37 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by randyo on Mon Feb 4 17:48:02 2019.* Randy, I'm talking about The Old Main Line, BEFORE the Myrtle Ave el was even built. There was a station on Myrtle Ave with platforms for both directions!
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by Express Rider* on Mon Feb 4 20:13:37 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by Q4 on Mon Feb 4 08:13:25 2019.* Hopefully there is another copy of those blueprints somewhere, probably in another's private collection at this point. I was shown blueprints for the line beyond Euclid Ave. at a NY Div. meeting during the 1990s (probably more than one copy exists of these, since a track map of Euclid going east was prepared for a Bulletin issue (and is it also at nycsubway.org? I don't remember). So, my thinking is that there is more than one blueprint copy "floating around" of the Utica Ave. subway - which plan, as Elkeeper has posted, is anybody's guess.
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by Elkeeper* on Mon Feb 4 20:19:54 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by Express Rider on Mon Feb 4 20:13:37 2019.* Not sure of the IRT plans, but both IND Utica subway plans had provisions for an elevated route, south of Kings Hwy. Local residents and their politicos wanted a subway all the way to Ave U. So, the plans were shelved both times.
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by Union Tpke* on Mon Feb 4 20:22:19 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by Express Rider on Mon Feb 4 20:13:37 2019.*
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by K. Trout* on Mon Feb 4 20:48:34 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by Union Tpke on Mon Feb 4 20:22:19 2019.* Very cool how Cross Bay Blvd could have been a terminal for both directions.
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by Express Rider* on Mon Feb 4 20:54:25 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by Elkeeper on Mon Feb 4 15:35:46 2019.* Thank you for your details in the previous post. I've read about the Old Main Line over the years but never committed the chronological details to "railfan memory." So the shuttle you refer to (closed 1904? according to the track plan) ran from Myrtle-Navy to the ferry via York, Union & Hudson?
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by Dupont Circle Station* on Mon Feb 4 21:19:35 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by K. Trout on Mon Feb 4 20:48:34 2019.* Likely for a connecting shuttle during off-hours/weekends. Similar to how Euclid has been used.
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by Express Rider* on Mon Feb 4 22:29:37 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by Union Tpke on Mon Feb 4 20:22:19 2019.* yep, this is what I was talking about. Thanks for posting it! :)
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by Express Rider* on Mon Feb 4 22:31:00 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by K. Trout on Mon Feb 4 20:48:34 2019.* Another specific that shows the high degree of IND planning.
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by randyo* on Mon Feb 4 23:12:59 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by Elkeeper on Mon Feb 4 20:13:37 2019.* True, but that was probably directly across Myrtle and would have been removed when Myrtle was built. Not only that but wasn’t the track configuration such that the “Old Main Line” coming from Park Ave turned east along Myrtle and the Myrtle west of Grand turned right onto grand and towards Lex. That is to say the Old Main Line did not go straight down Grand at all.
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Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn)
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Mon Feb 4 23:40:44 2019, in response to Re: Park Avenue (Brooklyn), posted by randyo on Mon Feb 4 23:12:59 2019.* It did before Myrtle was built.
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