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| BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars (1500020) | |
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| (1500020) | |
BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jan 15 01:09:34 2019 Old news, maybe? |
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| (1500036) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Jan 15 09:12:53 2019, in response to BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jan 15 01:09:34 2019. Someone posted a piece about turning them into an apartment complex. Asinine looking thing. |
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| (1500045) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 15 10:23:46 2019, in response to BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jan 15 01:09:34 2019. Scrapping may be off the table. Asbestos, you know. Asbestos abatement is expensive in this country, and fed law prevents exporting asbestos in scrap material.The carbon steel of the NYCT had more resale value (I would think) than alumnum cars wood. They could be exported to say Venezuela for use on their system. Re-gauging the wheel-sets is snot a big deal, though clearances may be. Sell them for 10,000 Venezuelan Bolivars each, and that would return about 70c USD per car to the fed. : ) If after that Venezuela finds they cannot use the cars after all, they can scrap them, and nobody would have sold them as scrap outside of the country. ROAR |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1500057) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Tue Jan 15 13:09:08 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 15 10:23:46 2019. "Asbestos abatement is expensive in this country, and fed law prevents exporting asbestos in scrap material. "We excel at tying ourselves into virtue-signaling knots. |
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| (1500058) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jan 15 13:32:49 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Jan 15 09:12:53 2019. Oh, thank you, I forgot about that. |
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| (1500065) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by mack c-49 on Tue Jan 15 14:19:03 2019, in response to BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jan 15 01:09:34 2019. Why on earth did BART use a non-standard gauge? Seems like a very strange thing to do in the modern industrial age. |
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| (1500066) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Jan 15 14:34:58 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jan 15 13:32:49 2019. I'm glad you posted the story though. |
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| (1500071) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by Bzuck on Tue Jan 15 15:12:53 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by mack c-49 on Tue Jan 15 14:19:03 2019. BART is not the only non standard gauge. I always wonder why the DC system is 4 foot 8 and 1/4 inches? |
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| (1500079) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 15 15:48:05 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by mack c-49 on Tue Jan 15 14:19:03 2019. According to adverts etc prior to the opening (That is when I was isn SF,,,The wider stabillity was to alow for higher speeds and greater comfort. The russians had different reasons. ROAR |
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| (1500087) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jan 15 17:52:11 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Jan 15 14:34:58 2019. Thanks! Catfish 44 |
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| (1500088) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by nasadowsk on Tue Jan 15 18:19:39 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by mack c-49 on Tue Jan 15 14:19:03 2019. It's Indian Broad gauge. IIRC, the real reason was that the Southern Pacific was opposing any rail transit, under the thought that their tracks would be taken for it. So, by going to a non standard gauge, the system happened.DC, Philly, Toronto, and a number of other places use non standard gauges, too... |
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| (1500092) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Tue Jan 15 19:26:03 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by Bzuck on Tue Jan 15 15:12:53 2019. BART is not the only non standard gauge. I always wonder why the DC system is 4 foot 8 and 1/4 inches?WMATA is for all practical purposes is standard gauge. The 1/4 of inch narrower gauge is to lessen the tendency of the trucks to search on tangent track. The gauge in curves is closer to 4 foot 8 and 1/2 inches then it is to 4 foot 8 and 1/4 inches. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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| (1500094) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Tue Jan 15 19:33:08 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 15 10:23:46 2019. Scrapping may be off the table. Asbestos, you know. Asbestos abatement is expensive in this country, and fed law prevents exporting asbestos in scrap material.WMATA scrapped the remainder of their 1k cars with little fuss after their retirement even though they had asbestos insulation on the HVAC pluming. None of the asbestos was attached to the aluminum parts of the car. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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| (1500097) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by LA Scott on Tue Jan 15 19:54:26 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by Steamdriven on Tue Jan 15 13:09:08 2019. "We excel at tying ourselves into virtue-signaling knots."Virtue signaling? My stepfather worked in HVAC for 15 years, and is now looking at a diagnosis of mesothelioma due to his exposure to asbestos. He has not yet retired, and might have less then a year left. I understand you have a political axe to grind, but the fact is that unregulated industry caused and is still causing many early deaths, most often in the working class that the right wing theoretically idolizes. |
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| (1500099) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue Jan 15 19:58:14 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by LA Scott on Tue Jan 15 19:54:26 2019. Excellent post. |
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| (1500101) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue Jan 15 19:59:45 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by LA Scott on Tue Jan 15 19:54:26 2019. The greatest con the right has perpetrated is pretending to care for the working class. |
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| (1500102) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by R30A on Tue Jan 15 20:20:29 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by Bzuck on Tue Jan 15 15:12:53 2019. WMATA is close enough that they have track connections to the national system. Similar gauge differences exist in Europe |
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| (1500103) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Tue Jan 15 20:34:11 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by Sand Box John on Tue Jan 15 19:26:03 2019. What do you mean by search on tangent track? |
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| (1500108) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 15 21:22:04 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by italianstallion on Tue Jan 15 19:58:14 2019. +1 |
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| (1500109) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 15 21:22:16 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by italianstallion on Tue Jan 15 19:59:45 2019. Excellent post. |
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| (1500110) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 15 21:24:32 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by nasadowsk on Tue Jan 15 18:19:39 2019. The MFL and trolleys (including 101 and 102) use broad gauge, the BSL, NHSL and PATCO use standard. |
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| (1500113) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by VictorM on Tue Jan 15 22:20:23 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by Union Tpke on Tue Jan 15 20:34:11 2019. "Search", sometimes called "hunt" is the tendency of wheels at opposite ends of axles to slam the wheel flanges from one rail to the other. Tightening up the gauge slightly may reduce this. |
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| (1500114) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Tue Jan 15 22:23:03 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by Union Tpke on Tue Jan 15 20:34:11 2019. What do you mean by search on tangent track?Not roll straight, search is when the truck oscillates left and right base on the rail wheel tread geometry and the center of gravity of the rail car. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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| (1500122) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Wed Jan 16 01:22:42 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by LA Scott on Tue Jan 15 19:54:26 2019. I am in no way arguing for blasting workers with asbestos! I worked in construction with various poisonous isht, didn't like that stuff. We should see that all workplaces do not burn out and throw away their employees, whether it's via unprotected work with hazmat or being chained to a desk for 80 hour weeks.What I do mean is that we can go so far in the other direction that things that merely sound like hazards tie us up. Example: white asbestos in old buildings being torn out and vast expense. All that's needed for that stuff, which is much less dangerous than black asbestos, is to stabilize it in place. It's an excellent insulator, as it's a mineral and never burns or breaks down. Not long ago, buildings (such as schools) would be 'made safe' by scraping off the white asbestos pipe insulation. That threw the dust everywhere, so the building had to be closed for months every surface washed down, and resulting debris disposed of as hazmat. Then the entire place would be monitored for a trace of asbestos while busybody parents looked for something to worry about. All that was actually needed was to repair the stuff, then wrap it in a tough casing which contains it 100%, leaving you with the zero fume, 100% fireproof mineral insulation. Yes the stuff is dangerous, but it's not plutonium. |
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| (1500123) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Wed Jan 16 01:23:37 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by italianstallion on Tue Jan 15 19:59:45 2019. No politician is your friend, except possibly for a few who never make that claim. |
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| (1500124) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Wed Jan 16 01:27:16 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by Sand Box John on Tue Jan 15 22:23:03 2019. There are some LIRR and MNR trains I can't ride for long on because they have a constant shivering motion, as if the wheels are tripping over themselves. The old ones (gone as of the last few years, don't know what model #) didn't do that. Is that truck hunting? |
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| (1500131) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Wed Jan 16 07:30:24 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by Steamdriven on Wed Jan 16 01:27:16 2019. There are some LIRR and MNR trains I can't ride for long on because they have a constant shivering motion, as if the wheels are tripping over themselves. The old ones (gone as of the last few years, don't know what model #) didn't do that. Is that truck hunting?Likely yes. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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| (1500133) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Jan 16 08:28:49 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 15 21:24:32 2019. Pennsylvania Trolley Gauge to be specific. |
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| (1500140) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by nasadowsk on Wed Jan 16 09:10:44 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by Steamdriven on Wed Jan 16 01:27:16 2019. Yeah, the current MU fleet (M-7s) is horrid for it. They were even worse when new on the LIRR - I was on one that felt like it was going to go off the tracks.The M-1s tended to have a LOT of vibration and harshness, the M-3s were a bit better. Oddly, the Silverliner IIs with the same basic truck design as the M-1s...were smooth as glass. The M-7s are a pretty shitty riding car. Bombardier doesn't know how to make a decent truck, still... |
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| (1500142) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Wed Jan 16 09:25:04 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by LA Scott on Tue Jan 15 19:54:26 2019. Agreed.And I'm so sorry about your stepfather...I've seen first hand what mesothelioma does to people, and it isn't pretty. |
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| (1500143) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Wed Jan 16 09:38:33 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by Steamdriven on Wed Jan 16 01:22:42 2019. Agreed.I worked for a law firm that dealt with mesothelioma/asbestosis cases. In fact, MTA was one of our clients, dealing with asbestos abatement in several elevated stations. As it was explained to me during my time there, asbestos is stable as long as it doesn't become friabile. It's like taking a piece of sheetrock and breaking it up in pieces. The dust from the friable insulation is what contains the asbestos that gets inhaled. Link |
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| (1500144) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Wed Jan 16 09:41:28 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by Sand Box John on Tue Jan 15 22:23:03 2019. That happens A LOT at higher speeds as well.I thought rail profiling was supposed to alleviate a lot of this as the train's wheels would sit in the rail profile better vs. a unprofiled rail (i.e.: a rail that was recently replaced and not grinded) |
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| (1500158) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Jan 16 11:07:05 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 15 15:48:05 2019. Yeah, BART'sofficial line mentioned high winds inthe Bay Area. At the time the us rapid transit speed recordwas held by CTA for hot rodded PCC L cars (the Windy City, you know)On a more ugly level, Southern Pacific was paranoid that BART would want to run on their tracks. S.D.Bechtel Sr was Chair of SP's BOD and Jr a member. Bechtel Corp was part of the engineering/managing consortium which made the decision--BART's BOD were pretty much rubber stamp. While there is no smoking gun, the Bechtel connection seems meaningful to me. |
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| (1500159) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Jan 16 11:08:03 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by LA Scott on Tue Jan 15 19:54:26 2019. Whale.... I really cannot see how you can blame any political party, any business or even the makers of asbestos. The dangers of asbestos were not known in the 60s. I remember handling the stuff in science class in school. You know, when we played with our Bunsen burners.The ceilings in our school had asbestos tiles, and in the 70s when I worked there as a janitor we paid no particular heed when handling them., and kids delighted in shooting quarters into them with rubber bands. The did that right over the stairway were we could not put a ladder to take them down. KENTILE was a huge manufacture of asbestos floor tiles, and they were forced out of business by litigation that really should not have been aimed at them.But they had the deepest pockets at the time. They should have just changed their ways, made tiles out of another material and then taken care of those in their facility who became ill. That alone might have driven them out of business anyway. But enter the lawyers and worse yet, the politicians and the whole world was turned upside down. Ok, well, you are sick, yes asbestos caused it, but WE DID NOT KNOW that it was dangerous, we operated within existing guide lines and practices, ERGO there is NO LIABILITY! The cases shopuld have been thrown out, and some other funding source should have been found to care for the sick. Obviously at this point in time, nothing can be done to change what has happened. ROAR |
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| (1500165) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by VictorM on Wed Jan 16 11:36:23 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by Steamdriven on Wed Jan 16 01:27:16 2019. Sometimes it's the track itself. I remember when the New Haven RR first installed continuous track in the late 1950s, they didn't secure the track adequately, causing it to "wobble" on straight sections like a continuous sine wave because of thermal expansion. |
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| (1500166) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Wed Jan 16 11:53:52 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by VictorM on Wed Jan 16 11:36:23 2019. It's a game of give and take. Install with the "neutral temperature" too high and you end up with heat kinks every summer. Install with the neutral temperature too low and you get cracks every winter. Fasten loosely and the heat kinks get spread out. Fasten tightly and the heat kinks get localized.
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| (1500168) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by VictorM on Wed Jan 16 12:19:23 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Wed Jan 16 11:53:52 2019. Wouldn't it be the opposite? If neutral temperature is too high you get cracks in the winter; if it's too low you get heat kinks in the summer. |
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| (1500227) | |
Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Wed Jan 16 21:43:38 2019, in response to Re: BART getting ready to decommission legacy cars, posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Wed Jan 16 09:41:28 2019. I thought rail profiling was supposed to alleviate a lot of this as the train's wheels would sit in the rail profile better vs. a unprofiled rail (i.e.: a rail that was recently replaced and not grinded)In a perfect world yes, however we do not live in a perfect world. Wheel and rail profile is not the only issue that need to be taken into consideration, center of gravity is also a significant part of the equation. The high center of gravity the GG1 had was one of the reasons why it was so successful. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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