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The Complete Guide to Tokyo’s Trains & Subways |
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Posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 6 13:20:07 2018 Tokyo's rail system puts every other city's to shame |
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Re: The Complete Guide to Tokyo’s Trains & Subways |
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Posted by Allan on Thu Dec 6 13:35:57 2018, in response to The Complete Guide to Tokyo’s Trains & Subways, posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 6 13:20:07 2018. While I would disagree with your assessment, I will say arigato for the information. |
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Re: The Complete Guide to Tokyo’s Trains & Subways |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Dec 6 19:30:00 2018, in response to The Complete Guide to Tokyo’s Trains & Subways, posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 6 13:20:07 2018. Tokyo's commuter trains have a few things which make it a cut above the rest, even in other parts of Japan:-JR East color codes their equipment by line, making identifying your train a lot easier. -Musical tones while the train is in the station. You can tell your stop by sound if you're half asleep and it's too crowded to see out the window. Not to mention it being a clear indication of how much time you have before the doors will close [the original purpose]. -Guaranteed express-local transfer arrangements allow for everyone to benefit from express trains even if they use a local stop. The result is people spending the least amount of time on the train as necessary, which is clutch on lines where seats are jokingly referred to as urban legends. -Service patterns will adjust middays and/or weekends to skip certain stops which either have low off-peak ridership or another line that serves them adequately enough. This is the exact opposite of what US commuter RRs do, whereby weekend trains will overserve intermediate stations, and making all midday trains stop at stations with no connecting buses that have long since filled their park and rides. -The integrated commuter rail-subway arrangement allows for many one seat rides. For example, this past trip we went from our hotel along the Keikyu line to Skytree [terminus of the (A)sakusa line] without having to transfer or fight for a seat a second time. -Distance based fares that are cheaper per mile than the peak DC metro fares, while turning an operating profit. Blows MTA/NJT fares out of the water. Then there's the creature comforts: -full restaurants, stores and vending machines within fare control -coin lockers at every station to drop off bags, coats, etc. -The smart card can be used to pay for food/vending and secure a coin locker (put stuff in locker, close door, scan pass... come back later, scan pass again, locker unlocks after deducting the appropriate rate). -Regardless of what card you bought you can use it on all the rail lines in the region. Of course, there's flaws: -The integrated subway-commuter rail makes it hard to figure out simple things like "inbound" vs "outbound" while in the subway. The destination sign will show places sometimes a whole city away from Tokyo [the (F)ukutoshin line for example through routes to the Tokyo Toyoko commuter Line which through routes to the Yokohama subway Minato Mirai Line]. -The subway integration means you will almost always get a train labelled for a railroad you've never heard of / weren't planning on travelling on. If you're on the (F)ukutoshin line you will see Tokyu, Yokohama Subway, and Tokyo Metro trains. The (A)sakusa line you'll see Keikyu, Keisei, and Toei subway cars. The Han(Z)omon line has Tokyu and Tobu trains in addition to Tokyo Metro. Great for railfanning but confusing to newbies. -The overcrowding and corresponding need for women-only cars, which is a confusing concept. They are only restricted for a few hours a day in certain sections, but those hours are not intuitive. For example one is AM rush hour and after 10:30 PM only. Easiest thing to do is make sure there's a large number of dudes in the car if you intend to board one labelled "women only". I say that because children and elderly are exempt, need dudes who are not at the ends of the age spectrum. |
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Re: The Complete Guide to Tokyo’s Trains & Subways |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Dec 6 23:13:11 2018, in response to Re: The Complete Guide to Tokyo’s Trains & Subways, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Dec 6 19:30:00 2018. The smart card can be used to pay for food/vending and secure a coin lockerOr in my case, pay for several rounds of Densha De Go. :-) |
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Re: The Complete Guide to Tokyo’s Trains & Subways |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Dec 6 23:34:58 2018, in response to Re: The Complete Guide to Tokyo’s Trains & Subways, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Dec 6 19:30:00 2018. The overcrowding and corresponding need for women-only carsFWIW, the weird issues with women-only cars was why I didn't go running to the front of the train for the somewhat limited railfan view on the rolling stock. I didn't want to be that black gaijin that ruined everything. The subway integration means you will almost always get a train labelled for a railroad you've never heard of / weren't planning on travelling on. In my case, I ended up running onto Keikyu train that skipped my stop on the Asakusa Line. I made the incorrect assumption that every train made all of the stops in the central portion. Regardless of what card you bought you can use it on all the rail lines in the region. FWIW, my weird issue with Tokyo is that because there are so many different providers, there isn't a system of free transfers between the networks. This is contrast to Paris where SNCF/RATP run everything, and a Navigo card for the entire region means I can railfan to the fringes of the Paris region and not worry about payment. In contrast, with Tokyo, I'd need to make sure that my Pasmo/Suica had enough money loaded. Also, I wish Japan would join the first world and let people pay for transit with credit cards... OTOH, the secret upside is that there's general regional acceptance of IC cards. It was a neat trick to use my Pasmo card in Kyoto. :-) The integrated commuter rail-subway arrangement allows for many one seat rides. For example, this past trip we went from our hotel along the Keikyu line to Skytree [terminus of the (A)sakusa line] without having to transfer or fight for a seat a second time. FWIW, it's a far better idea than building a giant cave under Tokyo to turn back trains. (hint) which is clutch on lines where seats are jokingly referred to as urban legends I saw a seat once..."off-peak". Distance based fares that are cheaper per mile than the peak DC metro fares, while turning an operating profit. Blows MTA/NJT fares out of the water. You can get away with things when you have absurdly high levels of ridership that make anything in the West look like a joke. And I suspect that their labour relation arrangements are far more flexible when compared to us. Plus, quite frankly JR East (and the rest of the private railways) functions well because it has to for Tokyo to be a functional city. |
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Re: The Complete Guide to Tokyo’s Trains & Subways |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Dec 6 23:43:01 2018, in response to Re: The Complete Guide to Tokyo’s Trains & Subways, posted by Allan on Thu Dec 6 13:35:57 2018. While I would disagree with your assessment, I will say arigato for the information.While Tokyo is impressive for the sheer amount of railway operations, the next closest in the Western world is probably Paris where nearly every mode is represented and the density of the network is unmatched. The Japanese are good at moving huge amounts of people, but the French are good at the "stupid pet tricks" stuff in terms of signalling and frequency. Ninety second headways and ZPTO on a line older than the IRT is a thing in Paris, but it's needed given the narrow profile rolling stock and short lengths. |
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Re: The Complete Guide to Tokyo’s Trains & Subways |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 7 04:16:30 2018, in response to Re: The Complete Guide to Tokyo’s Trains & Subways, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Dec 6 23:34:58 2018. In my case, I ended up running onto Keikyu train that skipped my stop on the Asakusa Line. I made the incorrect assumption that every train made all of the stops in the central portion.Ah you ended up on the Airport Limited Exp. That's pretty impressive bad luck, it runs only once (or twice?) an hour since I think it has to use 3 track stations to skip locals in the subway portion, of which there are few. Funny thing is we were hoping to get one of these for our Skytree trip, but our stop on Keikyu was skipped by the Sky Access express for that particular hour. there isn't a system of free transfers between the networks The downside of competition. The result for local residents is to map out the cheapest route rather than the most efficient. There is a funny side effect though: in many cases, paying 2 separate fares to a non-JR railroad in the suburbs and transferring JR in the city is cheaper than taking JR the entire way. Narita [the town] to Tokyo is like this - saves ~300 yen to take Keisei to Ueno then JR, instead of JR the entire way. I wish Japan would join the first world and let people pay for transit with credit cards... They can't allow it for smart cards because you can get your money back off the card - it would be a loophole for getting a no-fee cash advance. You can buy the old-school tickets with a credit card though at the (few-and-far-between) ticket offices, as well as a limited number of ticket machines if you have a Japanese credit card. it's a far better idea than building a giant cave under Tokyo to turn back trains One of the few benefits to Christie cancelling ARC was that we will now only have one new giant cave to turn back trains in Manhattan instead of two disconnected giant caves. Sadly, no one has vision for anything other than giant caves around these parts, so it will be replaced by another giant cave. I suspect that their labour relation arrangements are far more flexible when compared to us. Their conductors don't balk at operating the doors of a 15 (x 65') car train from the last car, and the only on-board fare collection is the green cars (which have a separate higher fare to pay for the corresponding 3rd crewmember to man... er, woman them [never male]). I'm told New York area commuters do not have sufficient brain cells to understand the concept of turnstiling in and out, and as a result need a $30/hour fare collector for every 2 cars instead. Plus, quite frankly JR East (and the rest of the private railways) functions well because it has to for Tokyo to be a functional city. Necessity is the mother of invention. |
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| (1495049) | |
Re: The Complete Guide to Tokyo’s Trains & Subways |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Dec 7 05:28:08 2018, in response to Re: The Complete Guide to Tokyo’s Trains & Subways, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 7 04:16:30 2018. They can't allow it for smart cards because you can get your money back off the card - it would be a loophole for getting a no-fee cash advance.I'd rather have the ability to pay with a credit card over a cash refund. If anything, it's an incentive to either burn money at the airport or return for another trip. :-) FWIW, the only RFID card that has seen multiple uses has been my card for NS in the Netherlands. IIRC, it's the only nationwide card in Europe and probably one of the few in the world. A close second would be my WMATA Smartrip card. Sadly, no one has vision for anything other than giant caves around these parts, so it will be replaced by another giant cave. The weird part is that supposedly the Asakusa Line operation was what convinced RATP and SNCF that the RER in France would actually work. So somebody bothered to follow up on the Japanese experiment, but we opted for disconnected caves with meh capacity, and almost all of the problems the Japanese wanted to solve with through-running. I'm told New York area commuters do not have sufficient brain cells to understand the concept of turnstiling in and out, and as a result need a $30/hour fare collector for every 2 cars instead. I suspect it's more of a "we've always done it this way, and why risk conflict with our labour" issue. Their conductors don't balk at operating the doors of a 15 (x 65') car train from the last car, https://youtu.be/H7LA9_OOC3U Have fun! :-) |
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