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Re: This is why we canít have HSR!

Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Oct 10 10:48:26 2018, in response to Re: This is why we canít have HSR!, posted by Joe V on Tue Oct 9 17:47:30 2018.

Yes, I saw that. Youngstown is a short bus ride from Pittsburgh.

The line is an NYC-CHI route. These pax do not need extra stops.

ROARING

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Re: This is why we canít have HSR!

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Oct 10 10:53:56 2018, in response to Re: This is why we canít have HSR!, posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Wed Oct 10 09:40:09 2018.

The whole idea is that HSR requires new ROW. Freight would not be an issue.

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Re: This is why we canít have HSR?

Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Oct 10 10:54:18 2018, in response to Re: This is why we canít have HSR?, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Oct 10 10:16:41 2018.

Farmland ???

Not with four lane highway with all of that traffic.

ROAR

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Re: This is why we canít have HSR?

Posted by AlM on Wed Oct 10 11:01:47 2018, in response to Re: This is why we canít have HSR?, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Oct 10 10:16:41 2018.

In summary, per mile:

- Flat farmland and flat desert are relatively cheap
- Hills, and even more so real mountains, are quite expensive
- Suburbs are extremely expensive
- Cities are unbelievably expensive

Even Dallas to Houston is going to be quite expensive in total because of the sprawling suburbs.

LA to SF has cities, suburbs, and mountains that push up the price, along with a lot of flat farmland and flat desert. You could do Stockton to Bakersfield at a reasonable price, but that misses almost all of the demand.

The NE corridor is continuous cities and suburbs.

NY to Chi has some cities, a lot of suburbs, and a lot of hills/moderate mountains, along with the flat farmland of OH and IN.





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Re: This is why we canít have HSR?

Posted by AlM on Wed Oct 10 11:02:46 2018, in response to Re: This is why we canít have HSR?, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Oct 10 10:54:18 2018.

Look at the picture. Those are cultivated fields.


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Re: This is why we canít have HSR?

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Oct 10 12:12:27 2018, in response to Re: This is why we canít have HSR!, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Oct 9 10:58:57 2018.

Didn't ignore anything. You don't know what you're talking about again, as usual. Don't try to excuse your hatred of trains.

the area around present day interstates is fully developed and there is no room for HSR corridors

Take a closer look at the room next to those interstates. (The former New York & Long Branch is still next to the NJ Turnpike, for example, and there is still room on stretches further out to build railroads adjacent.) Never mind the fact that government in fact took over railroad ROW to build interstates in many cases (e.g. I-80 through Paterson NJ).

Also, you fail to note that dedicated HSR rights of way do not extend into the cities and suburbs anyhow, where the high-speed trains use the "traditional" railroads and run at slower speeds. This is especially the case in France and Germany, and cross-border trains between those two countries even switch voltages between 15 kV 16⅔Hz and 25kV 50Hz (AC) and even onto 1,500V DC.

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Re: This is why we canít have HSR?

Posted by AlM on Wed Oct 10 12:42:01 2018, in response to Re: This is why we canít have HSR?, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Oct 10 12:12:27 2018.

Also, you fail to note that dedicated HSR rights of way do not extend into the cities and suburbs anyhow

Well, that kills HSR for the northeast corridor, since it consists entirely of cities and suburbs.

And you don't address hilly and mountainous terrain, which are much more of a problem in the US than in the heavily populated portions of Europe.



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Re: This is why we canít have HSR?

Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Oct 10 13:08:50 2018, in response to Re: This is why we canít have HSR?, posted by AlM on Wed Oct 10 11:02:46 2018.

Sure they are cultivated fields. So What, that is not 'farmland' that is open and easily acquired for an ROW. That is a patchwork that is rather tight like a suburban sub-division, you aint going to build an HSR line through there without expense.



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Re: This is why we canít have HSR?

Posted by AlM on Wed Oct 10 13:12:48 2018, in response to Re: This is why we canít have HSR?, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Oct 10 13:08:50 2018.

"Farmland" and "North Dakota farmland" are not identical concepts.

The farmland shown in that picture is less open than ND farmland, but more open than, say, the suburbs of Dallas. It's more like Ohio farmland.

We know that ROW costs are low in ND. Unfortunately, that's not where the demand for HSR is.

ROW costs are considerably higher in PA and even much of CA, not to mention places like CT, where the demand is highest.




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Re: This is why we canít have HSR!

Posted by Edwards! on Wed Oct 10 14:46:30 2018, in response to Re: This is why we canít have HSR!, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Oct 9 10:58:57 2018.

Thats why you build elevated truss spans along the ROW..concrete sound absorption box girders of course.

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Re: This is why we canít have HSR!

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Oct 10 15:44:54 2018, in response to Re: This is why we canít have HSR!, posted by Edwards! on Wed Oct 10 14:46:30 2018.

But that's expensive.

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Re: This is why we canít have HSR!

Posted by italianstallion on Wed Oct 10 16:16:26 2018, in response to Re: This is why we canít have HSR!, posted by zac on Tue Oct 9 15:28:06 2018.

The RER is a joke.

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Re: This is why we canít have HSR!

Posted by Joe V on Wed Oct 10 17:43:45 2018, in response to Re: This is why we canít have HSR!, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Oct 10 10:48:26 2018.

You need intermediate stops on a train to make it work financially. I-80 goes though nothing but God's country in Pennsylvania.

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Re: This is why we canít have HSR!

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Oct 10 17:46:26 2018, in response to Re: This is why we canít have HSR!, posted by zac on Tue Oct 9 15:30:57 2018.

I took the RER to CDG. My train ran nonstop from Gare du Nord. It was fast.

If you want slow, ride the RER C. I took it to/from Versailles.

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Re: This is why we canít have HSR!

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Oct 10 17:46:54 2018, in response to Re: This is why we canít have HSR!, posted by italianstallion on Wed Oct 10 16:16:26 2018.

Why?

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Re: This is why we canít have HSR?

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Oct 10 18:04:51 2018, in response to Re: This is why we canít have HSR!, posted by Joe V on Wed Oct 10 17:43:45 2018.

No you don't. Super expresses are perfect for HSR.

And keep that commie epithet to yourself. The I-80/380 corridor would be highly suitable for tilting HSR in addition.

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Re: This is why we canít have HSR!

Posted by Steamdriven on Wed Oct 10 19:32:22 2018, in response to Re: This is why we canít have HSR!, posted by nasadowsk on Tue Oct 9 11:01:08 2018.

So we should use the German system. Wheels are equally round here or there, or should be.

If can deficiency can be 8 or 11 inches, that also means excess cant can be at least that much. So you could have a curve with 11 inches of static cant. I'll bet the NEC uses less than that, even on Jenkins Curve where it's really needed. Double stacks wouldn't work, but they aren't on the NEC in any case.

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Re: This is why we canít have HSR?

Posted by Joe V on Wed Oct 10 20:56:22 2018, in response to Re: This is why we canít have HSR?, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Oct 10 18:04:51 2018.

That is not "commie epithet", that's business.
We were talking about New York - Chicago, not the Lackawanna Cutoff.

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Re: This is why we canít have HSR?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Oct 11 00:13:15 2018, in response to Re: This is why we canít have HSR?, posted by Joe V on Wed Oct 10 20:56:22 2018.

Olog-hai admires Joe McCarthy.

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Re: This is why we canít have HSR?

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Oct 11 01:27:32 2018, in response to Re: This is why we canít have HSR?, posted by AlM on Wed Oct 10 12:42:01 2018.

which are much more of a problem in the US than in the heavily populated portions of Europe

FWIW, the Japanese and Italian lines go through relatively mountainous area, and the German lines aren't particularly known for being on flat plains either. All three systems make use of considerable tunneling or viaducts where needed.

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Re: This is why we canít have HSR?

Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Oct 11 08:13:14 2018, in response to Re: This is why we canít have HSR?, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Oct 10 18:04:51 2018.

You mean "God's Country" ???

I assure you that that is neither communist nor socialist.

It is ALL "God's Country" from sea to shining sea,
Actually the whole globe is "God's Country"
If you don't like it, you are free to step off at any point.

ROAR

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Re: This is why we canít have HSR!

Posted by italianstallion on Thu Oct 11 11:50:40 2018, in response to Re: This is why we canít have HSR!, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Oct 10 17:46:54 2018.

Slow as molasses.


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Re: This is why we canít have HSR!

Posted by italianstallion on Thu Oct 11 11:53:11 2018, in response to Re: This is why we canít have HSR!, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Oct 10 17:46:26 2018.

Yes, that's what I had in mind with my "joke" comment - the line to Versailles. Plus, the time I took it, there was a 45-minute gap in service due to some unexplained problem.

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Re: This is why we canít have HSR?

Posted by Mitch45 on Thu Oct 11 12:18:34 2018, in response to Re: This is why we canít have HSR?, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Oct 11 00:13:15 2018.

The former Yankees manager?

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Re: This is why we canít have HSR!

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Oct 11 12:31:35 2018, in response to Re: This is why we canít have HSR!, posted by italianstallion on Thu Oct 11 11:50:40 2018.

ďSlow as molasses.Ē

FWIW, I rode RER A, B, and C two summers ago, and they seemed rather respectable. Better acceleration when compared to the LIRR stock, and arguably better at serving regional needs too...

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Re: This is why we canít have HSR!

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Oct 11 12:47:21 2018, in response to Re: This is why we canít have HSR!, posted by italianstallion on Thu Oct 11 11:53:11 2018.

Thereís a reason why RER C is called ďRťseau Escargot Rťgional.Ē

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Re: This is why we canít have HSR?

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Oct 11 17:10:33 2018, in response to Re: This is why we canít have HSR!, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Oct 11 12:31:35 2018.

What's the average speed?

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Re: This is why we canít have HSR?

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Oct 11 17:12:15 2018, in response to Re: This is why we canít have HSR?, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Oct 11 08:13:14 2018.

I don't mean the literal meaning. The euphemistic meaning is an epithet used to demean occupants of places other than the satanic cities.

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Re: This is why we canít have HSR?

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Oct 11 17:40:11 2018, in response to Re: This is why we canít have HSR?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Oct 11 01:27:32 2018.

Both correct. And to be frank, the USA is no stranger to such building methods either.

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Re: This is why we canít have HSR?

Posted by AlM on Thu Oct 11 18:05:38 2018, in response to Re: This is why we canít have HSR?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Oct 11 01:27:32 2018.

All three systems make use of considerable tunneling or viaducts where needed

But now you're back to very high per-mile costs.

The premise a few dozen posts back is that you could build HSR cheaply along interstates and through farmland.


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Re: This is why we canít have HSR?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Oct 11 19:15:31 2018, in response to Re: This is why we canít have HSR?, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Oct 11 17:12:15 2018.

I donít even feel like it anymore.

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Re: This is why we canít have HSR!

Posted by italianstallion on Fri Oct 12 16:54:02 2018, in response to Re: This is why we canít have HSR!, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Oct 11 12:47:21 2018.

Haha!

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