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| Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? (1472325) | |
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| (1472505) | |
Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Apr 12 15:53:27 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by Joe V on Wed Apr 11 19:01:56 2018. It was right about that time that the TA decided to have the Brighton Lcl via bridge run local in Manhattan as well. |
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| (1472506) | |
Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Apr 12 16:04:42 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by randyo on Thu Apr 12 15:50:49 2018. Huh?The reference was to when the IND was built. Take a look. Except for Con Edison, almost all the buildings over 10 stories are post-1960. Most are post-1980. And most buildings are still under 10 stories. |
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| (1472510) | |
Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Apr 12 16:13:00 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by randyo on Thu Apr 12 15:07:41 2018. Manhattan below 60th street is the center of the Metropolitan region. The whole region is "Manhattan-centric." Hell, given the significance of New York on a global level, much of the world is Manhattan-centric. |
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| (1472543) | |
Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Apr 12 21:15:57 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by Joe V on Wed Apr 11 19:01:56 2018. By 1968, the only QB trains ran during rush hours, peak direction-only, express along Broadway and local in Brooklyn. |
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| (1472544) | |
Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Apr 12 21:16:45 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by randyo on Thu Apr 12 15:09:53 2018. Well, the BMT standards did have Sea Beach L'c'l route signs.:) |
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| (1472556) | |
Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Apr 13 02:48:57 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by AlM on Thu Apr 12 12:36:47 2018. I have never in my life thought of 14th Street or Spring Street as being in midtown.That Spring Street is not in midtown by most common definitions of the term did not seriously prevent you from understanding Steve's post. |
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| (1472570) | |
Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Apr 13 10:55:05 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by AlM on Thu Apr 12 13:01:33 2018. LIKE LION SAID:Forget Express / Local BRONX trains on these tracks; QUEENS trains on those tracks. GRRRRrrrrr..... |
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| (1472571) | |
Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Apr 13 10:58:40 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by Nilet on Thu Apr 12 00:28:31 2018. NO WRONG!You have BRONX tracks and QUEENS tracks Queens trains make two more stops in Manhattan than the Bronx trains. There are no express/local tracks on 6th Avenue. Queens express and Queens locals both run on this side. Bronx express and Bronx locals both run on that side. END OF STORY NOW, since I am RIGHT and you are WRONG, go catch me a nice tasty Wildebeest or I will CHOMP off your 'ead! ROAR |
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| (1472581) | |
Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Apr 13 13:10:43 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Apr 13 10:55:05 2018. But the Bronx/upper Manhattan tracks skip two stations, and therefore are called "express" tracks. |
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| (1472590) | |
Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by Michael549 on Fri Apr 13 15:27:52 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by AlM on Wed Apr 11 16:53:37 2018. "I don't think a train on the northbound express track can access 53rd Street."In this particular case "the northbound express track" means the Sixth Avenue express tracks used by the B and D train routes. Since the beginning of the IND Subway in the 1930's there was a simply complex station at 53rd Street-SEVENTH Avenue - where B (and previously BB), D and E trains have ALWAYS stopped at since the opening of the Sixth Avenue line. (Prior to the opening of the Sixth Avenue in the 1940's only E trains served that station.) The use of 53rd Street as the trunk line for Bronx and Queens trains was in part of hold-over from replacing the IRT Sixth Avenue Elevated train line that connected with the Ninth Avenue Elevated line with a branch over 53rd Street, and to replace the Queens connection over the 59th Street Bridge with a new Queens Blvd branch line (and the rest of the Queens train services). Given this history, I do not know how one can make your statement. Mike |
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| (1472592) | |
Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Apr 13 16:25:37 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by Michael549 on Fri Apr 13 15:27:52 2018. Given this history, I do not know how one can make your statement.Sorry, the context was East 53rd Street (Queens access) but I didn't repeat that. Of course the track accesses West 53rd Street. |
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| (1472595) | |
Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Apr 13 16:33:35 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Apr 12 21:15:57 2018. That service pattern started with Chrystie in November of 1967. |
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| (1472596) | |
Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Apr 13 16:33:59 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Apr 12 21:16:45 2018. I believe the D types did also. |
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| (1472601) | |
Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Apr 13 16:44:48 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Apr 13 10:55:05 2018. It’s more passenger friendly to refer to the 6 Av tks as “local” and “express” since referring to 14 and 23 as “express” stations might lead passengers to believe that all 6 Av express trains including the B and D stop there. |
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| (1472602) | |
Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Apr 13 16:46:44 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Apr 13 10:58:40 2018. You can’t just simplify it by saying the local tks are Queens tks and the exp tks are Bronx tks since the exp tks can also access Queens via 63 St. |
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| (1472610) | |
Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Apr 13 20:12:20 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by randyo on Fri Apr 13 16:33:59 2018. It wouldn't surprise me. |
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| (1472611) | |
Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Apr 13 20:12:48 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by randyo on Fri Apr 13 16:33:35 2018. Yep. |
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| (1472617) | |
Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Apr 13 22:09:51 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Apr 13 10:58:40 2018. You have BRONX tracks and QUEENS tracksYes, local and express tracks going to different destinations is customary. Not always different boroughs, but they usually go to different destinations. Queens trains make two more stops in Manhattan than the Bronx trains. Yes, and when one train makes fewer stops than another train on the same route, that's called an "express." There are no express/local tracks on 6th Avenue. That has not been true since 1968. You might want to pay another visit to the line. Try riding a B or D train— they run on the inner tracks the whole way, and bypass some stations. That's called an "express." Queens express and Queens locals both run on this side. Bronx express and Bronx locals both run on that side. I went to 14th Street, but I couldn't find any Bronx trains. This baffled me; since there are no express tracks, all trains should stop there but the D was nowhere to be found. So I went over to the IRT, which has no express tracks and no express service— just South Ferry tracks and Brooklyn tracks with South Ferry trains and Brooklyn trains, none of which are express. |
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| (1472620) | |
Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Apr 13 22:20:22 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Apr 13 10:55:05 2018. Forget Express / LocalBRONX trains on these tracks; QUEENS trains on those tracks. I'm not going to either. I'm going to 23rd Street. Why did my Brooklyn-bound train not stop there? |
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| (1472622) | |
Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Apr 14 00:41:22 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by Nilet on Fri Apr 13 22:20:22 2018. Because it didn't feel like it.:) |
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| (1472639) | |
Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Apr 14 10:52:28 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by AlM on Fri Apr 13 13:10:43 2018. Different situation, different running patterns to cover different kneeds. |
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| (1472640) | |
Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Apr 14 10:54:02 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by Nilet on Fri Apr 13 22:20:22 2018. bekause ewe taked da wrong train.Pay attention and take your 'ead otta ur arse. ROAR |
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| (1472643) | |
Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Apr 14 10:57:16 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by randyo on Fri Apr 13 16:46:44 2018. But do not dew sew. |
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| (1472667) | |
Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Apr 14 15:40:12 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Apr 14 10:57:16 2018. It’s not a case of what they do or don’t do. It’s what they CAN. By your logic that would mean that the lcl tks on the Bkln IRT are 7 Av Tks and the exp tks in Bkln are Lex Av tks but that has never ben described that way by anyone. |
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| (1472673) | |
Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Apr 14 16:26:24 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Apr 13 10:55:05 2018. By your logic, the “local” tracks on CPW should also be called “express tracks” since the B which is a 6 Av/Brighton Exp stops there. |
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| (1472676) | |
Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Apr 14 16:36:58 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by randyo on Sat Apr 14 16:26:24 2018. PWN3D! |
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| (1472677) | |
Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 14 16:55:14 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by randyo on Sat Apr 14 16:26:24 2018. The B & D are quite a mixed bag:B: Brighton EXP, 6th Ave EXP, CPW LOCAL, Concourse LOCAL (if it gets that far) D: West End LOCAL (though no such thing as Exp), 4th Avenue EXP, 6th Avenue EXP, CPW EXP, Concourse LOCAL or Peak Direction EXP. The old Red & Green EXP and LOCAL train indicators wouldn't make much sense. Passengers would not know where that applies to. |
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| (1472740) | |
Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 15 14:01:17 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Apr 14 10:54:02 2018. bekause ewe taked da wrong train.You mean I shouldn't have taken the express? |
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| (1472756) | |
Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Apr 15 17:50:01 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 14 16:55:14 2018. Under the original IND scheme, a train that had express running anywhere on its route was considered to be and signed up as n express. If a train was 100% local with no express running whatsoever, then it was considered a local. As it exists now, the only 100% pure locals on the bMT/IND are the C, G, J, L, M, R and W. During certain off hours, the A, N, and Q also run local and during those times if the Lcl and Exp signs were still on the cars the Lcl sign would be illuminated. |
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| (1472783) | |
Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 15 22:13:02 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by randyo on Sun Apr 15 17:50:01 2018. During certain off hours, the A, N, and Q also run localAnd the E. |
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| (1472791) | |
Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Apr 16 00:23:59 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 15 22:13:02 2018. Thanks! |
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| (1472797) | |
Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Apr 16 05:27:07 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by randyo on Sun Apr 15 17:50:01 2018. I still remember seeing the Local sign illuminated on the very first R-32 D train I ever rode on back in December of 1967. It was a Saturday and it pulled into 34th St. on the local track (they ran express along 6th Ave. only during rush hours until July 1, 1968). |
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| (1472801) | |
Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by ntrainride on Mon Apr 16 08:21:12 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 14 16:55:14 2018. for the record, i've ridden over new utrecht avenue along the center track while trackwork was going on. it was pretty cool... |
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Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan? |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Apr 16 14:21:33 2018, in response to Re: Why are the Q and B local/express swapped Brooklyn/Manhattan?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Apr 16 05:27:07 2018. That D should have had the EXP sign illuminated since it ran express on CPW. |
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