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| [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars (1467699) | |
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| (1467699) | |
[PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Mar 1 09:40:29 2018 The R-68's we all know today as the 75 ft behemoths were originally the contract to rebuild the R-16 fleet. That idea fell through and what we see today is what we now have. At the 207th St. Open House of September 1979, the public got to see the rebuilding project for themselves. The second R-16 (#6392) is possibly being stripped for the second unit.   Here's what the interior looked like. Very R-44/46. June 16, 1981 (Glenn Smith)  An exterior view of the rebuild. very R-42 looking. No pantograph gate probably meant bologna springs were to be used. End cab window and windshield sealed, possibly a married pair ? Pay close attention to the R-17 #6621 (silver paint). It's in the next picture.  This was the mock up for the R-62, R-17 #6621 the donor. I guess thhey were testing what kind of interior they would eventually use. Not sure if this was on public display or not. June 16, 1981 (Glenn Smith)   Was #G236 the first jet powered Lo-V ? lol Anyone know the purpose of this unusual car ? (Don Harold undated photo)  Sperry Rail Service #140 looks much like a NYC subway car, but, it never saw service because it never was a NYC subway car. Built on the spare car body from the R-33 contract, SRS #140 examined rails just about everywhere but the NYC subway system. I was told height restrictions prevented it from being used here. After this 1966 photo, the car was modified even further. Here, it looks very IRT. SRS #140 was retired and now resides in a railroad museum in Australia. Bob Dunnett - November 1966 photo - CNJ Raritan, NJ yard.  Reposing in the NY Cross Harbor yard in Brooklyn, #XC-875 awaits the journey to NJ for scrapping. I was told this was constructed from an R-12/14 car body to test clearances for a new longer IRT fleet. Can anyone confirm this ? May 1985 - Newkirk Images LLC 
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Mar 1 10:39:02 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Mar 1 09:40:29 2018. Blurred out faces on the people, good work! Great photos! |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Thu Mar 1 11:50:39 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Mar 1 09:40:29 2018. XC-875 was R-12 car #5781. That is the only info I knew of the former car number back then, along with wrecked R-12 #5784, reducing the GE grouping to 48 cars, that would been in service on the 3rd Avenue El. R-14 cars #5803-5806 went to the El around 1971.-William A. Padron ["a.c.f."] |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Mar 1 12:27:16 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by William A. Padron on Thu Mar 1 11:50:39 2018. Thanks Bill.Bill Newkirk |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Mar 1 12:52:45 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Mar 1 09:40:29 2018. Holy crap does that R16 rebuild look weird. Thanks for posting. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Mar 1 13:37:44 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Mar 1 09:40:29 2018. Thanks.was wondering what ever happened with that R16 car.Looks like it would have been a nice rebuild if pursued. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Thu Mar 1 13:39:49 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Mar 1 12:27:16 2018. You're welcomed, Bill!-William A. Padron ["#5803-5806"] |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Mar 1 13:44:13 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Mar 1 09:40:29 2018. Probably would have made the R16's married pairs or 4 or 5car sets to cut weight due to air conditioning. They were heavier than the R27, which could not handle an AC unit. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Mar 1 13:50:51 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by Edwards! on Thu Mar 1 13:37:44 2018. Wonder if the transverse seating arrangement would have been kept looks tight in there. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Mar 1 16:26:42 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by Joe V on Thu Mar 1 13:44:13 2018. Probably would have made the R16's married pairs or 4 or 5car sets to cut weight due to air conditioning. They were heavier than the R27, which could not handle an AC unit.That's probably one factor why they ended up with a new 75 ft R-68 and not a rebuilt R-16. Bill Newkirk |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Mar 1 17:16:40 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Mar 1 16:26:42 2018. They also figured why pour all that money into what every knew was a shitty car, especially the GE ones. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Mar 1 17:22:42 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Mar 1 09:40:29 2018. One of the problems with the R-16 modification is the staggered doors. As part of the rebuild, the M’M’s cab was made transverse in prep for OPTO. This required the 1st door on the lefthand side if the car to be moved back and one window behind it eliminated. The expense of doing that on an entire fleet of cars would have been too much for cars that even with the rebuild wouldn’t have lasted that long. A similar attempt was made with an R-10 which had an R-42 front spliced onto it but that wasn’t any mores successful. If the MTA had any sense (which we all know it doesn’t) it would install closed circuit TV cameras at operating cabs with am screen at the M/M’s controls to enable the M/M to see both sides of the train the way it’s done on the M/F in Philly. That way we wouldn’t need transverse cabs and the M/M could operate the doors on both sides of the train without leaving his seat. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Mar 1 17:24:33 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by randyo on Thu Mar 1 17:22:42 2018. They could have just rebuilt the cars with traditional cabs and forget OPTO. Very few R68's are used for OPTO today. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Mar 1 18:19:40 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Mar 1 09:40:29 2018. I've heard that the TA was kickin around the idea of a 60 ft IRT car. However, I never saw or even heard of the existence of cut up IRT sized car(s) with extentions to lengthen it to 60ft ala what they did to two R-1s with an erector set midsection & whiskers to stretch it to 75ft in anticapation of the arrival of the R-44s.The idea of a 60ft IRT car was abruptly dropped when someone at Jay St smacked their forehead & suddenly realized that it could never be used at 14th St & So Ferry a/c the platform gap fillers. |
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G 236 Blower and Fan Car...Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by heypaul on Thu Mar 1 21:14:23 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Mar 1 09:40:29 2018. G 236 ex low V 4954, was part of a Speno Rail Grinder train. It was the blower and fan unit of the train.Here's a shot of an entire rail grinder entourage. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Mar 2 01:20:08 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by Joe V on Thu Mar 1 17:16:40 2018. All the GE cars from that era, the R-16s through 22s had the same sort of blower cooled resistor bank which gave a lot of trouble although I seem to recall the R-16s seemed poorer performers than the other types. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Mar 2 01:24:50 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by Joe V on Thu Mar 1 17:24:33 2018. I think that the MTA had grandiose plans of implementing OPTO system wide as soon as possible. I wouldn’t say few since the entire G Line is OPTO on weekends although that is expected to change with the L shutdown but R-46, 62As and some NTTs are used in OPTO services. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Mar 2 01:34:39 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Mar 1 18:19:40 2018. The TA was thinking of some sort of a longer IRT car, either 60 ft or slightly longer so that 8 long cars could be operated instead of 10 shorter ones much like what was done on the BMT and IND. It was the curved platforms requiring gap fillers that scuttled the idea. The clearances on the IRT especially the “first subway” are so tight that the MTA didn’t even design a curved side car although if they has designed a car with a profile like the Composites with a slight angle in above the lower window line, it might have been able to be done. |
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Re: G 236 Blower and Fan Car...Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by heypaul on Fri Mar 2 13:39:46 2018, in response to G 236 Blower and Fan Car...Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by heypaul on Thu Mar 1 21:14:23 2018. Another Shot of 4954 |
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Re: G 236 Blower and Fan Car...Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri Mar 2 15:15:05 2018, in response to G 236 Blower and Fan Car...Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by heypaul on Thu Mar 1 21:14:23 2018. Thanks heypaul.Bill Newkirk |
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Re: G 236 Blower and Fan Car...Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Sun Mar 4 13:22:08 2018, in response to Re: G 236 Blower and Fan Car...Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri Mar 2 15:15:05 2018. Hello Bill (M)This info was sent to me by Nate G and comes from a personal friend of ours and long time NYCTA (MTA) employee. Here is more information from that employee on some of the cars shown in this "Oddball Cars" thread: =================================================================== (quoted) Regarding that interesting set of photos. I can provide answers to questions posted, as follows: --- 6392 - went to scrap, never used again. --- 6621 - was never put on public display. --- G236 - was "blower car" for the "tunnel wash train", meant to dissipate fog/mist from spray cleaning the tunnel walls. The train would frequently cause electrical and signal problems after it passed. --- XC875 - was the IRT clearance test car., and it was 75-feet long. The car was too long to clear either loop at South Ferry, or the connection tracks between the Lexington Ave. Line and the lower level station at 149th Street - Grand Concourse. --- Sperry 140 had height and width clearance problems. It was built to replace the Mack 402/403, and to be more compatible with the other detector cars in the fleet. Upon completion, it was sent to the NYCTA, C.I.Yd., via the South Brooklyn Ry. I (the writer) was to represent RTTD (now RTO) on the test (acceptance) run, but I (the writer) had to respond to a train breakdown. A BMT Trainmaster took my place. The 140 left C.I.Yd. and proceeded to Stillwell Ave., then went up the Brighton Line, as far as Kings Highway, N/B Exp Track (A4), where M of W Engineering felt the car's height would not clear under overpasses beyond that point. The 140 was turned south, and proceeded through Stillwell Ave. onto the sea Beach Line. It was on the N/B Exp Track (E4) at 86th Street, where, again the M of W Engineering had an issue with height clearance. There was also an issue with width clearance. Sperry had "bumped out" the side wall panel, several inches, opposite where the cab would be, at each end of the car (I do not know for what purpose - the end side door pockets were retained, and usable). This added about 6" to 8" inches of additional overall width to the car, rendering it unfit for operation on the IRT, the H&M, the CTA, or any other rapid transit systems' lines where narrow clearance was an issue. This car, that was built with the intention of being almost universally suitable for operation on all rapid transit systems was a failure. The car was very unpopular with Sperry personnel, as its' interior was ten feet shorter and one foot narrower than a standard detector car - it was orphaned off to Australia, until it died. You guys may feel free to pass any of this information along ! ==================================================================== So, there above is more info as copy-pasted from the info received by me -- for those interested regards - Joe F |
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Re: G 236 Blower and Fan Car...Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Mar 4 14:04:30 2018, in response to Re: G 236 Blower and Fan Car...Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Sun Mar 4 13:22:08 2018. is the long time personal friend bw? |
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Re: G 236 Blower and Fan Car...Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Mar 4 15:07:54 2018, in response to Re: G 236 Blower and Fan Car...Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Sun Mar 4 13:22:08 2018. Thanks Joe. Very useful information. |
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Re: G 236 Blower and Fan Car...Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Sun Mar 4 16:26:36 2018, in response to Re: G 236 Blower and Fan Car...Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Mar 4 14:04:30 2018. Steve -- No Can Say Here (for obvious reasons to protect da privacy of the person as requested ...!) |
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Re: G 236 Blower and Fan Car...Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Mar 4 16:56:32 2018, in response to Re: G 236 Blower and Fan Car...Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Sun Mar 4 13:22:08 2018. Was the BMT trainmaster by chance George Abere? He was in charge of the clearance trains when they were testing for clearances for the R-44s. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by Ian Lennon on Sun Mar 4 18:36:57 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Mar 1 09:40:29 2018. Thanks for those photos. It has been talked about for years but never got to see it. The seats in the R-17 come from retired R-44's? |
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Re: G 236 Blower and Fan Car...Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Mar 4 18:53:48 2018, in response to Re: G 236 Blower and Fan Car...Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Sun Mar 4 13:22:08 2018. Very Interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing!! |
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Re: G 236 Blower and Fan Car...Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by heypaul on Mon Mar 5 01:48:58 2018, in response to Re: G 236 Blower and Fan Car...Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by heypaul on Fri Mar 2 13:39:46 2018. 4954's number plate on EBay |
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Re: G 236 Blower and Fan Car...Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Mar 5 05:44:37 2018, in response to Re: G 236 Blower and Fan Car...Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Sun Mar 4 13:22:08 2018. I (the writer) was to represent RTTD (now RTO) on the test (acceptance) run, but I (the writer) had to respond to a train breakdown. A BMT Trainmaster took my place. The 140 left C.I.Yd. and proceeded to Stillwell Ave., then went up the Brighton Line, as far as Kings Highway, N/B Exp Track (A4), where M of W Engineering felt the car's height would not clear under overpasses beyond that point.So Sperry #140 actually did get a chance to run on TA rails. Was there a height restriction because the trucks seem to make the car ride a little higher. Or is that an opitcal illusion ? Bill Newkirk |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Mar 5 22:34:21 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by randyo on Thu Mar 1 17:22:42 2018. At the same time, cameras could be placed inside every car and within seconds, the operator could check that the train is empty at relay terminals instead of having to walk the train. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Mar 6 00:08:38 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Mar 5 22:34:21 2018. I’m not completely sure, but I believe the R-179s and R-211s are equipped with surveillance cameras which could conceivably be hooked up to some sort of monitor in the T/O’s cab. I know that CTA’s 5000s definitely have them. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Tue Mar 6 06:38:05 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Mar 1 09:40:29 2018. That is amazing work, thanks.I believe the car with the vents in the back was the inspiration for the "Thomas and the Jet Engine" episode of Thomas and Friends. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Mar 6 07:11:17 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by Ian Lennon on Sun Mar 4 18:36:57 2018. The seats in the R-17 come from retired R-44's?Possibly salvaged from the wrecked R-62's. Bill Newkirk |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by subfan on Tue Mar 6 13:52:13 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Mar 6 07:11:17 2018. Isn't that R-17 a prototype for the R-62? If so, there were no R-62s yet, let alone wrecked ones to serve as donors.subfan |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Mar 6 18:26:37 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by randyo on Tue Mar 6 00:08:38 2018. Denver's LRVs all have cameras. The SD100s were delivered without cameras and had them installed when they were retrofitted with electronic signs. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Mar 6 18:54:39 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by subfan on Tue Mar 6 13:52:13 2018. Isn't that R-17 a prototype for the R-62? If so, there were no R-62s yet, let alone wrecked ones to serve as donors.subfan Then I have no idea where the seats came from. I was thinking of past wrecks. Bill Newkirk |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Mar 6 20:47:31 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Mar 6 18:54:39 2018. From R44's?Some of them only lasted a few years IIRC. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Mar 6 23:09:36 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Mar 5 22:34:21 2018. Not even cameras, just cheap motion detectors wired into the display on NTTs that shows the status of each car. Have an indicator that lights up while cars are occupied, they can pinpoint stowaways. T/O or C/R only needs to worry about the one car. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Mar 7 01:38:55 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Mar 6 23:09:36 2018. The only problem with a simple motion detector is that in the event of a relay train having to be double ended at places like 205 St, there would have to be some way of differentiating between a stowaway and a double end T/O without having to contact him/her on the radio. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Mar 7 01:39:06 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Mar 6 23:09:36 2018. The only problem with a simple motion detector is that in the event of a relay train having to be double ended at places like 205 St, there would have to be some way of differentiating between a stowaway and a double end T/O without having to contact him/her on the radio. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by VictorM on Wed Mar 7 01:46:28 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Mar 6 23:09:36 2018. The problem with motion detectors is if someone is sleeping at the end of the car there may be no motion to detect. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by Mark S. Feinman on Thu Mar 8 14:43:52 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by randyo on Fri Mar 2 01:34:39 2018. The 1979 election enabled New York state residents to vote on a $500 million bond issue to finance improvements to mass transit. The Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority would chip in an additional $300 million and local matching funds would add up to another $180 million. The bond issue would finance, among other things, 260 IRT cars, each being 64 feet long instead of the usual 51 feet (tentatively labeled R-62). $425,000 was already spent on the design of these cars. They would be air-conditioned but lack the sophisticated technology that plagued the R-44s and R-46s. The estimated cost of these cars was $190 million.--Mark |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by Mark S. Feinman on Thu Mar 8 14:49:08 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Mar 1 09:40:29 2018. Fascinating! First time seeing those modified R-16s. Thanks for sharing!!--Mark |
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Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Mar 8 15:15:48 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Odd Ball NYC Subway Cars, posted by Mark S. Feinman on Thu Mar 8 14:49:08 2018. Thanks Mark.Bill Newkirk |
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