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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Dec 19 09:53:09 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Dec 19 09:50:35 2017. Is the engineer of train #501 still alive? If he is, has he been arrested for speeding? |
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Tue Dec 19 10:32:58 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by SLRT on Mon Dec 18 13:36:54 2017. A lot of what made US stock safe was not encoded into regulations. It was simply the design philosophy of US car builders. They would also do things like have vestibule cabs act as crumple zones which protected passengers and encouraged engineers not to break the rules. |
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Dec 19 11:10:54 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Dec 18 16:03:43 2017. Mandates Fandates, what are you some sort of a Democrat or something?Such things should be required by the industry not by the government. Shucks, too bad it don'e wrok that way ROAR |
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Dec 19 11:21:40 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Mon Dec 18 15:26:27 2017. LION Looked at the map....They cheaped out by using too much of an existing ROW. LION ould have elimninated that curve completely, him would hav crossed I-5 much further north, cut across a hilly forest and rejoined the route a little beyond wqhere it rejoins the old route now.. The it would be rated at 79 mph with no slow zones. GOTA THINK of saver alignments when you are ditxing with alignments and not be tied to ol,d tracks just because they are there. ROAR |
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Dec 19 11:29:06 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Dec 19 09:50:35 2017. Well, they cannot say that he was overly familiar with this routing, although one would have expected that all of the engineers would have been certified on that track before they were let loose with pax.ROAR |
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Dec 19 11:32:38 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Dave on Mon Dec 18 20:22:17 2017. Take a look at some of those pictures. The train left the track long before the engine hit the bridge. In fact the engine never hit the bridge: It went sailing off into the wild blue yonder long before the bridge, with most of the train following him. Only a few cars and the rear locomotive remained on the tracks and followed the tracks across the bridge.Scratch one train set. THAT is going to put a crunch in their schedules. ROAR |
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Dec 19 11:34:20 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon Dec 18 20:27:08 2017. Sotty this content is not available now...Anyway, Google Earth reveals the whole story. From the track level it looks gentle, brom the eye in the sky it looks like a 30 mph curve. Whatever, if the RR says it is a 30mph curve, then it is a 30 mp h curve. ROAR |
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by zac on Tue Dec 19 11:38:20 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by jimmymc25 on Tue Dec 19 02:48:21 2017. And it joins with the original line not that far down. Just follow the track. I would think that would also require a slower speed. |
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Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Dec 19 11:39:43 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon Dec 18 20:55:39 2017. No do do, (the announcer) you got that wrong. THAT engine was at the BACK of the train, the other engine was in the roadway south of there, and was in the first footage of your clip.Sheesh where do these damn reporters come from anyway. Should put them back in kindergarten with a box of crayons. ROAR |
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Dec 19 11:43:41 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by AlM on Tue Dec 19 09:50:17 2017. I assumed the run would be full of rail fans.Where do you think that most of those 85 passengers came from anyway. ROAR |
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Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by murray1575 on Tue Dec 19 11:58:17 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Mon Dec 18 22:29:20 2017. It sounds like those were trees or parts of trees which fell over onto the right of way not trees that the train hit after derailing that is a big difference. |
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Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Dec 19 12:04:16 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington, posted by murray1575 on Tue Dec 19 11:58:17 2017. NOPE. The tree that was involved (if any) would have been hundreds of feet NORTH of where the train left the bridge. That train was on the ground BEFORE the curve.Listen again to the engineer give his "Emergency" call. He said "We are on the ground" He did not say we are wrecked, He did not say we are airborne, He did not say that his locomotive landed on top of an 18 wheeler. All of those things happened, but that is not what was called in. The engineer had time to call in, ergo, he was not airborne at the time. Remember, a train on the ground cannot use its brakes. At that point the wayside must supply the stopping force. ROAR |
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Dec 19 12:35:47 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Dec 19 11:43:41 2017. the general public. this is the 6th RT now scheduled on this route. Sounder also runs commuter trains in the area. people ride trains. |
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Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by Allan on Tue Dec 19 12:45:12 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington, posted by Allan on Mon Dec 18 20:29:49 2017. I wonder - would this incident qualify to be included in the "Tuscarora Almanac – December 18, 2017 – The Book of First and Last Runs"? |
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Dec 19 14:21:52 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Dec 19 11:34:20 2017. Whatever, if the RR says it is a 30mph curve, then it is a 30 mp h curve.Actually, I believe that when the railroad says it's a 30 mph curve, it's actually a 60 mph curve (if you don't mind the passengers being flung against the side of the car a bit). It just isn't an 80 mph curve. :( |
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Tue Dec 19 14:23:51 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by GojiMet86 on Tue Dec 19 09:30:14 2017. Zack Willhoite & Jim Hamre: A Tribute to the Amtrak Crash VictimsJim Hamre and Zack Willhoite, two of the three victims who died in the Amtrak train derailment crash near Tacoma, Washington, were public transportation enthusiasts who were close friends and well known in communities devoted to rail travel. Willhoite, who worked for Pierce Transit, was admired for his Pacific Northwest transit archives. Hamre wrote route guidebooks and once worked for the Washington State Department of Transportation, “advocating for more and better trains in America,” in the words of a friend. These tight-knit communities are mourning the men, who died doing what they loved. “Very sad to hear of the passing of two folks in the train derailment from the railfan community,” wrote Ken Liesse on Facebook. “Jim Hamre and Zack Willhoite were both well respected in these parts, and Jim was a big mover and shaker in the Washington Association of Railroad Passengers. RIP.” The 501 train derailed over I-5 on December 18 on its inaugural trip from Seattle to Portland, crumpling dramatically over the freeway. The cause remains under investigation, but authorities said the train was going 80 mph in a 30 mph zone. The third victim has not yet been identified. In addition to the three fatalities, 72 people were taken to hospitals. As it was the train’s first trip, some people on board were rail enthusiasts who desired to be part of the moment. Family and friends identified the men as among the three victims in tributes posted to social media. On Facebook, Hamre’s page was filled with photos of trains, and Willhoite’s was filled with photos of buses. According to a friend, Carl Fowler, the two men were both strong advocates of public transport. “As we all knew they would be, Jim and his great friend Zach Wilhoite were on Amtrak Train 501 on the first run over the new route and they were, unbelievably, two of the three killed in the horrible derailment of that train,” Fowler wrote on Hamre’s Facebook page. On December 15, Hamre posted a photo from inside a train depot and wrote, “Waiting for train 500 for the return trip along the Narrows. — at Olympia-Lacey Amtrak Station.” “Permit me to share some thoughts I posted a moment ago on Zach’s Facebook feed,” continued Fowler. “I can’t even begin to express my grief! Zach was the kindest, smartest, most decent guy, and even more an extraordinarily insightful friend. Jim Hamre was quite simply the brother I never had, my best friend and a far better person than me. I met Jim in 1981. Even then he was working on citizen advocacy for public transport. We leafleted, went to public meetings, mutually joined the NARP Board, but mostly had fun together.” A relative of Hamre responded to Fowler’s comments by writing, “Carl thank you for your kind words. My uncle Jim will be missed by so many. We are all very heart broken. We will make sure to contact you when we have arrangements made.” Pierce Transit released a statement confirming Willhoite’s death. “The entire Pierce Transit team was deeply saddened to learn that one of our employees was a victim of the Dec. 18 Amtrak train accident,” it read. “IT Customer Service Support Specialist Zack Willhoite has been a Pierce Transit employee since 2008. He has always been deeply appreciated and admired by his colleagues, and played an important role at our agency. He will be sincerely missed. Our thoughts are with Zack’s family, as well as the families of the other victims, during this very difficult time.” A WSDOT employee identified Hamre as the former WSDOT Olympic Region IT manager. APRHF Rail Rangers, a group devoted to the “role that passenger rail played in the building of this nation,” wrote, “It’s with a heavy heart this morning that we ask for your prayers. We just found out that Jim Hamre, an avid supporter of NARP and the APRHF Rail Rangers passed away during the Amtrak accident in Washington State yesterday. He rode with three of our guides us just last month to experience our onboard educational programs to Milwaukee and Michigan City. He sat next to us for part of the trips and made sure to buy his route guidebooks to support the APRHF. We love you, Jim. We wish comfort and healing to your family and other friends.” Dennis Lytton wrote, “I’ve know Jim for years from our advocacy for passenger trains, especially our work at the National Association of Railroad Passengers (checked in herein under its recent new name, Rail Passengers Association). Jim spent much of his personal time and treasure, when he wasn’t working at WSDOT, advocating for more and better trains in America.” Fowler met Willhoite through Hamre. “They were soul-mates. They went with me on tours I led to Europe and the world. We ate pizza together, laughed together, saw glorious scenery and wonderful place… I’m going to have to be unusually quiet for me to take this in, but oh God what a bloody waste. Three fatalities too many and all of us knew two of them and they were so fine,” Fowler wrote. Zzack willhoite A photo of Willhoite that Cartwright posted on a Facebook page devoted to historic 374 buses. Friend Kevin R. Cartwright also wrote a tribute to Willhoite. “It is with a heavy heart I inform you that Zack Willhoite’s wife Taylor has publicly announced Zack was one of the casualties in today’s derailment of Amtrak 501,” Cartwright wrote. “Zack supported the preservation of 374 and his transit archives and documentation of Tacoma Transit and Pierce County Transit vehicles is probably more extensive than anyone in the Pacific Northwest region. Zack’s friend Jim Hamre also died alongside him in the incident. We lost an angel today, and we will never forget Zack’s contributions to our hobby. May he Rest In Peace and smile with us from afar as we fondly remember him and recount the good memories with which he has left us.” The 374 was a type of public bus; there is a Facebook page devoted to its preservation. Chris Karnes of Tacoma Transit wrote on Twitter, “It’s heartbreaking to hear that @PierceTransit employee and rail aficionado Zack Willhoite did not survive the derailment. He helped our advisory committee with IT issues, and behind the scenes he was a writer and advocate for better transit for all. He will be missed.” Willhoite was also part of other communities. “Today the Rocky Horror community mourns the loss of Alumni dual-cast member Zack Willhoite. Zack lost his life yesterday in the tragic Amtrak accident in DuPont. Our thoughts are with his wife and family during this difficult time,” wrote friend Chip Wilson. |
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Dec 19 14:59:04 2017, in response to Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Bob Andersen on Mon Dec 18 11:24:38 2017. Updates |
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Dec 19 15:07:02 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by GojiMet86 on Tue Dec 19 09:30:14 2017. I've heard the handle "Bus Dude" somewhere.Maybe on the Bus Chat side? My condolences to their families. |
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Dec 19 15:10:04 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Tue Dec 19 14:23:51 2017. Wow. So sad losing 2 members of our community. |
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Dec 19 15:22:06 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Dec 19 11:10:54 2017. I'll say it AGAIN, paraphrasing Michael Crichton:The free market doesn't ensure safety; only regulation does that. If you want safe drinking water, you need the EPA. If you want safe air travel, you need the FAA. If you want safe meat and produce, there better be inspectors. The same holds true for the railroads, which is why we have the FRA. |
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Dec 19 15:29:03 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by GojiMet86 on Tue Dec 19 09:30:14 2017. Just to put the proverbial icing on the cake, I just saw a Facebook post that the third casualty was an Amtrak employee. |
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue Dec 19 16:19:40 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Dec 19 15:22:06 2017. Thank you. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Dec 19 16:34:46 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Joe V on Mon Dec 18 17:22:26 2017. It still sucks big time. Not only is there an accident with casualties and loss of life, it's for the EXACT SAME REASON as a recent crash with loss of life. A lot of people and Amtrak as a whole are going to be punished for this. |
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Dec 19 16:46:00 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Dec 19 14:59:04 2017. Possible second person in cab, a trainee, distracting the operator????Nothing conclusive, yet! |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Dec 19 17:23:28 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Dec 19 16:46:00 2017. engineer is ok light injuries others in cab were a Cdr taking qualifying trips and a Siemens technician. |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Dec 19 17:26:21 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Dec 19 11:10:54 2017. It hasn't EVER worked that way. This is why Hamurabi wrote a civil code. |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Dec 19 17:27:53 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Joe V on Mon Dec 18 17:22:26 2017. so they should not have started using the route. PERIOD |
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Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 19 17:50:38 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Dec 19 11:39:43 2017. The P42 in back of the train was in trailing mode, not pushing it. |
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 19 17:52:53 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Dec 18 20:43:49 2017. A NARP Director, Jim Hamre, was killed, along with his friend who worked for the county bus company. I knew him, though not well. |
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 19 17:54:26 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Dec 19 15:29:03 2017. I keep hearing 3 killed, then 6 killed, and back and forth many times. |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 19 17:56:54 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Dec 19 11:21:40 2017. Someone looked at an 1940's aerial shot, and that nasty curve was there then, in spite of the absence of I-5.It's an old NP branch line for freight. PTC comes next year. With that curve there, they should have held off until then. |
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Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Dec 19 18:10:15 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Dec 19 12:04:16 2017. In this case, it was NOT the engineer who gave the emergency call, but the conductor since by that time the engineer had been knocked unconscious by the derailment. |
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Dec 19 18:17:50 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by 3-9 on Tue Dec 19 16:34:46 2017. What is this idea of punishment all about. Why do people need to be punished? I did not know that Joseph Stalin was in charge of things around here.ROAR |
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Dec 19 18:19:11 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Dec 19 17:26:21 2017. Yeah, I seem to recall saying that in my post.ROAR |
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Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Dec 19 18:20:25 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington, posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 19 17:50:38 2017. And your point is? It still had weight and momentum.ROAR |
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Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Dec 19 18:21:46 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington, posted by randyo on Tue Dec 19 18:10:15 2017. Makes sense. |
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Dec 19 18:24:24 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 19 17:56:54 2017. correct |
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Dec 19 18:26:23 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Dec 19 18:19:11 2017. yet you rarely speak up for government regulation of miscreants |
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Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Dec 19 18:27:25 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Dec 19 18:21:46 2017. yet you rarely speak in favor of government regulation |
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by R30A on Tue Dec 19 19:24:52 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Dec 19 17:27:53 2017. If the old route wasn't PTC equipped and the trains still aren't, it is hard to argue that the reroute made it less safe... |
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 19 19:26:19 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by R30A on Tue Dec 19 19:24:52 2017. It's safe to assume the engineers knew the old route with their eyes closed, but not this route. |
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Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by R30A on Tue Dec 19 19:26:51 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Dec 19 12:04:16 2017. The train pretty clearly derailed at the curve. I have no idea what you are talking about. |
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by R30A on Tue Dec 19 19:27:44 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 19 19:26:19 2017. A qualified engineer should know all routes they are qualified on with their eyes closed. If he did not, he shouldn't have been qualified on this segment. |
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Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by R2ChinaTown on Tue Dec 19 19:57:58 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Dec 19 18:27:25 2017. That is the galaxy here. There was government regulation but they keep pushing the deadline back. No one in government seemed to have the stomach for enforcing the regs. |
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Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by R2ChinaTown on Tue Dec 19 19:58:28 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Dec 19 18:27:25 2017. That is the falicy here. There was government regulation but they keep pushing the deadline back. No one in government seemed to have the stomach for enforcing the regs. |
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Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Dec 19 20:00:10 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington, posted by R2ChinaTown on Tue Dec 19 19:57:58 2017. how can you enforce when no money for PTC is available and Government fails to provide the radio frequencies needed? |
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Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Dec 19 20:00:29 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington, posted by R2ChinaTown on Tue Dec 19 19:57:58 2017. how can you enforce when no money for PTC is available and Government fails to provide the radio frequencies needed? |
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Dec 19 20:04:31 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 19 19:26:19 2017. If you don't know the route with your eyes closed, you should be paying extra close attention and have right at hand all the notes about where you need to slow down. |
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Dec 19 20:25:49 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 19 17:54:26 2017. Thankfully, the number 3 is more accurate. Not sure how they initially double counted. |
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Train was going 80MPH in 30MPH zone |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Dec 19 20:42:51 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Dec 18 20:42:15 2017. We now know the train was going 2 2/3 times the speed limit, going 80 MPH when the max speed was supposed to be 30 MPH.At worst, to me this is looking like gross negligence on someone. |
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